It's just something I'd like to try. My Marlin 336 is my experiment rifle for this sort of thing, so cycling isn't an issue. It has a 1/10 twist and 20" barrel. I generally shoot cast in both the 135 grain and 165 grain weights, but though it might be fun to try a dedicated subsonic bullet above 200 grains. The Berger Stability Calculator says my bullets will be stable with the length provided by MBC and the velocity of 1050 fps. I've done reduced loads with H335 and W231 powders using the 135 and 165 grain bullets, but they're not always subsonic. Does anyone have a starting point for this type of thing? I've done TiteGroup loads in 308 with 168 grain jacketed bullets, but this is different.
Subsonic 30-30 Loads with 215 and 245 Grain MBC Bullets
- Thread starter DMW1116
- Start date
25-20 WCF
Member
My .32-20 with .308” 1:10“ barrel will stabilize 220-grain RN jacketed bullets at 1075 fps, so shorter cast bullets of similar weight should stabilize. No experience with the .30-30 and heavy bullets, but powders like Unique and BlueDot should give low recoil and report while being easy to ignite.
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Lee C309-200-R 1078 fps out of a 24” Remington 788 308 with 6.5g Red Dot. Almost any fast to medium speed shotgun/pistol powder will get your bullet out of the barrel without going supersonic. Good candidate powders are Clays, Titewad, Titegroup, Extra Lite, Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, Hp38/W231, AA#2 Ramshot Competition, Zip. These all build up over 10,000 psi quickly for a clean burn without driving the bullet too fast. With most of these powders a charge between 5-7 grains will be 100% consumed before the bullet exits the barrel so the velocities will be very close to each other with equal weights. So all you have to do is to tailor your charge to stay subsonic.
With the lower volume of a 30-30 case compared to a .308 case, you will need less powder to stay subsonic. For instance 5.6g Universal is all I need to drive that same 200g bullet 1080 fps out of a 300AAC 16” gun using that tiny cut down .223 case.
With the lower volume of a 30-30 case compared to a .308 case, you will need less powder to stay subsonic. For instance 5.6g Universal is all I need to drive that same 200g bullet 1080 fps out of a 300AAC 16” gun using that tiny cut down .223 case.
P Flados
Member
Here are some Quickload predictions sorted by lowest muzzle pressure on top.
Code:
Cartridge : .30-30 Win. (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 214, LYM LRN GC 311284
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.550 inch = 64.77 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N310 35.6 6.1 0.40 1050 100.0 25244 1259 2.078
Hodgdon Clays 44.0 6.2 0.40 1050 100.0 25500 1271 2.056
Maxam CSB 5 39.1 6.3 0.41 1050 100.0 23948 1282 2.096
Norma R1 44.3 6.6 0.43 1050 100.0 24078 1292 2.096
Hodgdon TiteGroup 27.3 6.6 0.43 1050 100.0 22587 1297 2.119
Vihtavuori N320 36.5 6.3 0.41 1050 100.0 21958 1297 2.145
Maxam CSB 1 39.1 6.8 0.44 1050 100.0 20201 1300 2.175
Maxam CSB 4 37.9 6.3 0.41 1050 100.0 22012 1301 2.132
Accurate Solo 1000 38.6 6.3 0.41 1050 100.0 22133 1305 2.127
Maxam CSB 3 37.9 6.5 0.42 1050 100.0 21196 1305 2.151
Alliant RED DOT 40.6 6.0 0.39 1050 100.0 22569 1314 2.122
Maxam CSB 2 36.7 6.6 0.43 1050 100.0 20577 1320 2.192
Alliant GREEN DOT 37.8 6.2 0.40 1050 100.0 21405 1321 2.147
Hodgdon HP38 26.9 6.6 0.43 1050 100.0 20540 1322 2.165
Accurate Solo 1250 37.1 6.5 0.42 1050 100.0 19861 1324 2.184
Winchester 231 29.9 6.7 0.43 1050 100.0 20200 1329 2.174
Ramshot Zip 26.8 6.7 0.43 1050 100.0 20200 1329 2.174
Shooters World Clean Shot 24.9 6.1 0.40 1050 100.0 19853 1333 2.177
Accurate Nitro 100 37.4 5.8 0.37 1050 100.0 21261 1337 2.147
Shooters World Sparta 100 37.4 5.8 0.37 1050 100.0 21261 1337 2.147
Vihtavuori N330 33.8 6.5 0.42 1050 100.0 19623 1339 2.207
Hodgdon Universal 33.2 6.3 0.41 1050 100.0 19328 1356 2.206
Vihtavuori N340 33.6 6.6 0.43 1050 100.0 17706 1370 2.248
Accurate No.2 32.2 6.3 0.41 1050 100.0 17192 1386 2.257
Shooters World Ultimate Pistol 21.0 6.1 0.40 1050 100.0 17621 1388 2.250
Alliant UNIQUE 32.3 6.2 0.40 1050 100.0 16852 1409 2.282
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That’s some good stuff there. Thanks a lot. The lgs even has some Clean Shot and I have some W231.
AJC1
Member
Red dot is very good for reduced power loads and has the highest fill. The load used red dot for military rifles. It's probably first choice imo.
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 12,569
Unique and 2400 are your friends here. The older Ideal manuals have starting loads for each in the small game listings. Still supersonic at around 1600fps from a 24” barrel with lighter cast but you can work backwards from there and step up gradually to your desired weight class. I never went below 170gr with gas-checked Linotype round nose and 9 or so gr of Unique for my old Diller load in the Stevens bolt guns but your experiment seems interesting. I have tried some crazy stuff in the T/C’s but not deliberately subsonic. In the Marlins I always played it pretty conservative - getting a stuck bullet out of a lever gun just doesn’t look like any fun.
AJC1
Member
I'll ask because I'm curious, why buy a bolt action 300bo. With a 6arc or Grendel you get significantly more pressure available in a bolt, but I don't see the added value in 300bo.
If one wants to shoot subsonic loads primarily, but maintain some level of energy, a 300 BO is a good candidate. Once velocity is limited, bullet weight is the only way to increase energy. There are established loads in 300 BO for nearly 250 grain bullets. Bolt guns are generally seen as more accurate than lever actions. I’m not against those calibers, but for a dedicated round to shoot subsonic heavy bullets, 300 BO is tailor made.
AJC1
Member
A 45c did that since the day it was born with much heavier bullets if you want.
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 26,151
That’s why I only found 300 blk useful with supersonic rounds, just couldn’t kill the stuff I wanted to effectively with anything sub I worked up.
The 458 socom is the best one I have for subs. It has more energy at 300 yards than any of my sub 300 blk loads had at the muzzle, no one makes 400-500 grain .30 cal bullets…
A bit less trajectory with the 300 loads but that doesn’t help much if it’s not a killer (for me), if I am playing, I can still lob them out there if I need to.
458 socom 300yd sub
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Indeed those are more energetic and are more naturally able to use heavy bullets. In the case of 45 Colt, it is naturally subsonic even from a rifle, so there are no special loading considerations. A 45 Colt lever action is my current favorite for a suppresser host. I was constraining the discussion to 30 caliber rounds, as the original post was about 30-30. Since I have a 30-30 and can run these heavier bullets, there isn't really a need for a 300 BO.
