Substituting shot in new shells

[deafsg1]

Hello!

I did some research on Remington hulls and found that Wal Mart has the shells I can reload. The question is, can I simply decrimp the new shells, dump the shot out, stack the buckshot and recrimp it without changing anything? 1-1/8 oz shot is about 492 grains, whereas buckshot is going to weigh about 486 grains (maybe slightly under), a 6-7 grain difference, somewhat partially offset by using an overshot card.

I'm considering doing this to save money on the first pass ($6.74 per box of new shells versus about $10.33 on the cost of reloading from scratch, including buying once-fired hulls online), and because I'll have hulls I KNOW were once fired BY ME.

Suggestions?

 

[sargenv]

It's a lot of work but um, sure you can do that. Shotshells are usually a little more forgiving when it comes to shot charge. Pressure will likely be lower, by how much, I figure not too much. In the past I obtained some heavy buck loads made by Wolf. 27 pellet 2 3/4" magnum stuff. They were roll crimped. I cut the top off the roll crimp, took 7 of the #4 buck off the top, put the overshot card back on it, and re-roll crimped the load and they fired fine. A little more flash, a bit less recoil and I was back in business. It helps to have a shotshell hull vice and a roll crimp tool that chucks to a drill press for that. If you have a loader, I don't see any issue.

 

[scout26]

The question is, can I simply decrimp the new shells, dump the shot out, stack the buckshot and recrimp it without changing anything?

Probably not a good idea. Buckshot behaves differently then birdshot. Loads are built based on the components used. Mixing and matching components is generally an area where angels fear to tread. That's why you see different recipes for birdshot loads (normally list in ounces and fractions thereof) and buckshot recipes that state how many buckshot to put in the hull.

Why not just take the Wally-World Valu-Pak ammo out and get in some practice on the Trap, Skeet or Sporting Clays course by trying to turn evil orange frisbees into dust ??? Then reload your now once-fired hulls using a recipe from a manufacturer. Good way to get some moving target practice, break-in the gun (if it hasn't been already) and have some fun.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I suggest buying the Lyman Shot Shell Reloading Manual. The new edition just came out and it will answer all your questions. There is a chapter concerning loading buckshot and it's not a simple case of dumping out the shot and filling it with buckshot.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[deafsg1]

"Probably not a good idea. Buckshot behaves differently then birdshot. Loads are built based on the components used."

What I thought. I have thought about buying the Target STS/Nitro shells so that I know it's been fired ONCE and I can more or less tell where I am in the reload life of each shell. However, I'm not into trap or skeet (I don't even make a third of what the average American makes, hence the Lee-Load-All reloader. I'll put it this way - it can be a PITA to use this reloader, but it makes it AT ALL POSSIBLE to get buckshot loads for self-defense for one-third less then the price on even very competitive factory buckshot shells. Plus I'm learning how to work the limitations to my advantage). This is more for self-defense. Anyhow, I'm also considering the once-fired STS hulls from a source I have in mind.

By the way, I talked to the people at 10 Ring about the AA hulls I bought from them and what I was finding (appearing to be multi-fired hulls with shot-out brass and some with bulged primers), and they said to bring them back. I'm bringing back one box and keeping the other one. I'll shoot these up and move over to the STS hulls when I have enough to reload.

Look at the "CCI Primers" thread I'm about to put up. This is long enough already...

 

[rcmodel]

How much Self-Defense Buck-Shot do you plan on needing?

You can practice with new factory birdshot loads just as well as Buckshot you know.


rcmodel

 

[scout26]

I'm not into trap or skeet

It's good practice. At my club a round of trap or skeet (25 shots) for non-member is under $5.00. If you have access to somewhere you can safely shoot, you can get a box of 100-135 clay pigeons and hand thrower for ~$15 or less at Wally-World. You can throw the pigeons yourself, but it's much easier and more fun to bring a friend along to and take turns shooting and throwing.

Good practice and gets you familiar with your gun.

 

[rcmodel]

+1
There is no better way to learn to handle a SD shotgun fast & accurately!

When you can bust hand thrown blue-rock consistantly, a BG wouldn't stand a chance!


rcmodel

 

[deafsg1]

I plan on having a couple of thousand on hand, which should last me for several years if stored properly. I go out to the range twice a month to practice.

I just dropped off the shotshell hulls and exchanged for more wads and powder for the Remington hulls. I just had my overshot cards and sizing die lube come in! Now, just to get the buckshot in hopefully by Friday so I can load a handful and test them out before making them up.

 

[rcmodel]

and sizing die lube come in!

Ehhh!
You don't use sizing die lube to load shotgun shells.

You really ought to look into the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manual ReloaderFred suggested earlier.


rcmodel

 

[deafsg1]

Lube for the sizing die. I think it would help, as some of the shells I have primed were a little hard to resize. It wouldn't hurt. At least I have it for the .308 dies I will eventually get when I add in rifle reloading at some point.

 

[scout26]

I would advise against using any sizing lube on shotgun hulls. The powder will stick to the lube and just make a mess in the shell and on your reloader.

Yep, get the 5th Edition of the Lyman guide. Can be had for ~$15-$20. It's upto date as of the spring of 2007, lots of good info: How to Reload, Component and Hull Identification, all kinds of recipes and all around good reference tool.

There's others good books out there also, some that are strictly for buckshot: http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.ex...egoryid=17766&categorystring=10614***15810***

But I'd start off with the Lyman 5th edition. Mid-South has the lowest price on-line $~17.00 http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000159827111 Check your local shop and other stores. You might be able to find it cheaper locally or get them to match the price. I liked going to the Borders here and watching Mr. Herbaltea Blissninny's head just about spin off and explode when I asked if they had it or if they could order it for me.

 

[deafsg1]

The Lee resize die for shotshells only does the outside. Besides, I would only put enough on the die itself to be felt and wipe it dry with my finger a little bit.

I have seen that Lyman book at the local shop. It's pretty good, even has buckshot data in it. I have BPI's Buckshot manual, but I don't like it because they list only data to be used with their wads (for people who can afford to own 4 vacation houses and not have to rent them out and still drive the latest Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles, but still want to get shells the hard, but fun way).

 

[scout26]

The Lee resize die for shotshells only does the outside.

That's all that needs to be/is ever done to resize shotgun hulls. They just have to be able to fit into the breech of any shotgun (of the same gauge). If you shoot them out of the same gun all the time you can skip resizing step. I always resize, because I have several different 12 gauges, and you never know when you might shoot them in something else.

Besides, I would only put enough on the die itself to be felt and wipe it dry with my finger a little bit.

No real need. Even with steel or brass washed steel bases, the steel is soft enough to be resized more times then the plastic around the crimp will last. Save the lube for metallic reloading.

Get the Lyman manual.

 

[scout26]

deasfg1,

Once you get some loaded, we expect a range report. You may find that your shotgun has a preference.

And pictures, definitely pictures of targets with nice 00 buckshot holes in a nice pattern at various distances. The most important distance to practice/pattern at is: max range in your home +1 yard for GP.

 

[deafsg1]

Scout26,

I'm not sure it's going to happen at all... AT ALL! I just discovered tonight that the load data at Hodgdon's web site appears to be wrong regarding wad usage. You cannot use this load data to get the buckshot to fit without serious pimpling of the shells:

Win AA hulls
W209 primers
Hodgon Universal ~ 24.6 grains
WAA12F114 wads
Hornady #00 buckshot - 9 each
with or without an overshot card.

What the...? What went wrong here? The best I could do was 6 pellets or 6/8 oz in three layers of two pellets each, and there is no load data for that. It looks like I have to start ALL OVER.

I have a reloader, and I have Win AA hulls. What do I do? Contact Hodgdon to tell them their data is wrong?

Thanks...

 

[scout26]

You should be able to put in three layers of three buckshot with plenty of room. Make sure you load them in by hand. (I drop one at a time and when i get three, "swirl" them around so that they all "seat" or "nest" next to each other on the same layer. The next layer sits in the low spots between the layer below, so that they kinda alternate, until you get three layers of three each.

Also make sure that you fully seating the wad up against the powder. The top of the wad should be below the "lip" where the crimp will fold over.

You sure they gave you the light yellow WAA12F114 wads ??

Here are some pictures.

I'll e-mail them to you also. The upload picture thingy doesn't appear to like me tonight.....

 

[deafsg1]

Here's what happened, Scout... I was reading everywhere that you could fit 9 #00 in that load data. !@#$%^&* How!?

Turns out that the vendor sent me the WRONG size buckshot. Two out of three boxes were #000! After I realized that, I cut open the #00 box and tried again. It works, with just a slight pimpling of the hull! I recall how I was able to get only six in there with a wad, and that was because the #000, six of them, was being used! I weighed out the #000 Hornady, and they only weigh about 62.1 grains for a total of 372.6 grains! 7/8 oz is 382.8 grains. I'm not able to find data for #000 buckshot. I'm finding that the #000 fits inside the wad even better, especially with an overshot card. I can't seem to figure out how to adjust the powder weight given a 7/8 oz load. For instance, on a hunch, I compared 7/8 and 1-1/8 oz lead shot loads for a remington STS hull using W209 primers and Clays powder (wads are going to be different). It turns out you have to use MORE powder for the lighter load than for the heavier load!

I'm not sure what to do, contact the vendor to have the correct buckshot shipped or try to contact Hodgdon to see if they can give me #000 load data. I'm going to bed. Been a long day...

 

[scout26]

Contact the vendor to get the correct buckshot shipped. If they want the wrong stuff back, they should pay for shipping. In fact, they should pay for shipping both ways.

You really can't use weight to make buckshot loads. If there are no recipes listed for 000 buckshot, that's because there are no safe loads. That's why there are separate recipes for buckshot, birdshot, and slugs. Each behaves differently as regards to pressure and velocity. Stick with the published recipes and let the guys in white labs coats and the pressure test guns in the concrete reinforced bunkers with all the safety equipment to play with come up with load recipes.

 

[ReloaderFred]

He's going to put his eye out.................

Fred

 

[deafsg1]

I contacted Hodgdon, and they said to use the same loading data, simply change out 9 #00 for 6 #000. They said the only thing it would do is decrease the pressure slightly, as there's not as much weight to push behind. It would prolong the reloading cycle by one or two more reloads. They also said that this is one of the rare instances where you can do this and not change the load data, safely.

I'm going with this and making up a few rounds to test out.