Success With the Lee Charge Bar attainable?

[Potatohead]

Do any of you have any success with the Lee Charge Bar? This thing is really giving me fits. I don't think its ever thrown the same weight twice- over, under, nothing at all- it'll throw anything but the weight I want it to.
I talked to the Lee man (email), he said the weight I was trying to get was to small. So I stopped 380, switched to 9mil, same thing...I ended up just dremeling a bigger cavity on one of the disks. I can only do that so much though you know? I never hear much about it in threads or posts so I'm wondering-is this thing a piece of you-know-what? Or is it (most likely) user-induced- if their is a problem in the system I can usually find a way to exploit it
I don't see much that I could be doing wrong though.

 

[rchery59]

My adustable charge bar won't work with small loads and unique. I just use it for H110 and 357, no problems then. I'm dumping around 15g then. I can't get it to work with 380 or 38sp.

 

[docsleepy]

I do OK with 38 special and win231 (using the adjustable charge bar)

 

[docsleepy]

I do .380 on a cheap Lee turret (auto indexing) with their entry level powder thrower set up on the press, works fine! Probably done >1000 rounds of that caliber. (using the disks)

 

[Potatohead]

Okey dokey. since the product supposedly works, I'll go back to the drawing board and see if I cant get her throwing correctly.

 

[RealGun]

The disks should work, but the ACB will be questionable under 5 grains and with powders that don't meter very well.

I just took note this weekend of how remarkably consistent my ACB was with 7.0 g SR4756, but that powder is single based, small flake, a sort of uniform round disk shape actually.

Loading .380 I expect would require special attention to the powder used.

 

[jfh]

I have four measures set up exclusively with the bars--one bar, BTW, is an older aftermarket bar that measures larger quantities of H-335 (for .223) quite accurately and repeatably. Most of my loading is now done on an original Turret (spring operation) or on a Load-Master with the mechanical pull-back. I suppose I have loaded 60,000 rounds or more with the ACB, and have complete confidence in it. In fact, I no longer use the Disks--but I do recognize that I have a limited number of powders and not all people do.

I use ACBs with AA#5, #7, 231, SR-4756, most Viht powders, H335, Ramshot's True Blue, Silhouette, WSF, Power Pistol, etc. IOW, most ball / flattened ball, or short-stick powders will work just fine. By fine, I mean that I get charge weights that vary by +/- 0.1 or 0.05 grain--two-tenths or one-tenth total variability.

An ACB does not generally work well (i.e., repeatability) with charge weights under 3.0 grains. Part of this issue also has to do with volumetric weight of a given powder; the 'heavier ones' work best, and you need a minimal volume to get repeatability, I think.

Keep in mind that these products do wear--and effectively wear out. If your charge bar or the hopper is worn down, it will be just about impossible to not have leakage or to get accurate, repeatable measures.

There are a couple of things one needs to do to ensure success--

First, make sure the hopper, bar, and measure base are fit properly and have sufficient 'tension'--i.e., how tight the assembly screws are. Generally, the Deluxe version of the hoppers works best, as does the similar / plated base.

Second, When you assemble the bar, make sure the slot for the actuation lever is in the correct bar cavity. If it is not, you will get some 'play' in the operation--and the repeatability is gone.

Third, If you are using the pressure method (Lee powder-through die) for actuation, take apart the assembly and clean it, then double-check that your dies are properly adjusted. It is critical to have full operation of the measure, and it is easy for one to have tweaked the other dies and eventually end up with constrained PT operation.

If you are having trouble with erratic measuring, I would suspect the second item--that the bar is not installed with the actuator lever in the correct spot. The subtle one, of course, is the third one--particularly if you use the same powder setup on different caliber sets.

Jim H.

 

[steelerdude99]

The LEE micro disk is supposed to work well with small charges for guns like the 380 and .32 ACP. It has a bigger but shallower hole and to allow it to work with small charges. I would still not not expect it to work with "course powders" like Unique or Blue Dot. BUT, it seems like the Lee factory personnel broke the stink'n mold (huh?They had just one?). check out the link:

http://leeprecision.net/support/ind...icle/View/668/0/micro-disk-90302-discontinued

chuck

 

[RealGun]

This topic has been hijacked before by mentioning and dwelling on the discontinued micro-disk. I think the truth is that the small disk apertures work better than small elliptical settings on an adjustable bar.

 

[germ]

Here is a solution to the ACB with light loads. It works for me: Loadmastervideos.com

 

[RealGun]

Here is a solution to the ACB with light loads. It works for me: Loadmastervideos.com

You would have to recalibrate how to read the settings on the ACB. It's pretty good for at least starting in the ballpark of the desired load.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have also found using the charge bar for small powder charges doesn't work well. I did some investigation and realized when you turn the adjustment down for small charges the charge hole in the bar does not sit directly under the charge hole in the measure which is probably why it throws erratic weights.

As for the micro-disk, it's a much better choice for throwing very small charges associated with cartridges like the 380 Auto or when using Clays for .38 Special Wadcutter loads. Unfortunately Lee no longer offers the micro-disk set, too bad I didn't buy a spare before they disappeared. You can however make your own smaller disks by filling a spare disk measure and drilling a hole that will throw the powder weight you are looking to use.

 

[dickttx]

Quote from ArchAngelCD:

"I have also found using the charge bar for small powder charges doesn't work well. I did some investigation and realized when you turn the adjustment down for small charges the charge hole in the bar does not sit directly under the charge hole in the measure which is probably why it throws erratic weights."

For the disks or the ACB to work consistently this is necessary. In addition, the disk/ACB hole has to be directly over the drop tube when the ram is at the top. This is accomplished by screwing the die in or out of the turret to line it up.
About the only way the line up the ACB hole with the hole in the measure for small amounts of powder is to shim it as shown in the previous posts.

When I did the above I got drops as consistent as I do with the disks.

 

[2 Horse]

Used it on small charges of HP-38, HS-6 and longshot all in the 4.4 to 5.4 range with great success, (+ or -.05) Also used it with H335 same results. Haven't tried it on anything but ball powers, love it on 335. open it up all the way and it throws 24.9gr all day long

It helps if you keep the hopper above half full

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Used it on small charges of HP-38, HS-6 and longshot all in the 4.4 to 5.4 range with great success, (+ or -.05) Also used it with H335 same results. Haven't tried it on anything but ball powers, love it on 335. open it up all the way and it throws 24.9gr all day long

It helps if you keep the hopper above half full

Trowing 4.4gr to 5.4gr charges of ball powder isn't all that small of a charge. Trying to throw a 2.5gr charge of Clays is a small charge. (doesn't work well)

 

[Schwing]

I don't know what you would classify as a small charge... I can't even get my charge bar to work with my .357s dropping blue dot. I think those are between 8-11 grains and I still get .1-.5 differences. I gave up on it and bought an extra set of disks to drill out for the exact throws I want.

 

[dickttx]

When I was using the ACB on my LCT it dropped 5.3gn of HP38 time after time.

 

[ljnowell]

I havent installed a disk in my measure since I bought the charge bar. Mine will throw 2.9gr AA#2, 5.0gr WST, 5.3gr AA#2, 14.5gr 2400, etc., without issues.

 

[Hondo 60]

Depends on what powder you're throwin.

My experience is that some powders work fine in the adjustable charge bar & some don't.
Tite Group, Lil Gun, Universal, Accurate #2 & #5 all work pretty well.

Unique, ah, not so much.

 

[1SOW]

VVn320 (small rod powder) didn't work consistently for me. I've used it several times. Very UNimpressed.
I only use the charge bar to determine the exact weight I want to throw, then modify a disc hole to hold that weight.

I also tried AA#5 in the charge bar, and it wasn't consistent either. I might try that reshaping of the front to better align better to the hopper . Would be nice for building/tweeking new loads.

 

[Elkins45]

Depends on what powder you're throwin.

My experience is that some powders work fine in the adjustable charge bar & some don't.
Tite Group, Lil Gun, Universal, Accurate #2 & #5 all work pretty well.

Unique, ah, not so much.

Yeah. I have a coffee can full of "target loads" that I'm afraid I will eventually have to pull down because a good percentage of them didn't get enough Unique to push the bullet down the bore. I randomly pulled 10 and all had the 4.0 grains they were supposed to have, so I'm hoping the four stuck bullets out of the initial 50 might have just been some sort of huge statistical anomaly...but I'm not hopeful.

Funny how the universe works: I dump 50 in a box and four are squibs, but I pull 10 and all are spot on.

 

[Nordeste]

As others have pointed out, it's a matter of what, and how much powder.

My personal experience is that it works well as long as I keep my charges above 4'3 grains. This, using the damned Vectan BA9 I currently use. It's a short stick powder that you can't "enjoy" in the US because it's not imported into there. They are aware it wouldn't sell well, or so it looks like. My other option is a locally manufactured product called Optima A. Good powder, but comes in flakes. Measures worse than BA9.

I haven't, so far, tried the disks, but will give them a go. Once I have found out what the minimal load to achieve PF is using the bullets I'm currently using (HN hollow points, copper plated), I'll try the disks to see if I can get a setting that gets close. If the disks throw more consistently than the ACB, the ACB will go to my reloading table's drawer. Reloading is a lot about trial and error, and the good thing of having two pieces of equipment for the same function is that you can choose the one that works better with this or that combination of components.

 

[Potatohead]

Hey thanks for all of your replies. I haven't had as much time as usual to poke around on the net. I plan to read them all in detail tmrw. Thanks again. Looks like some good info at a glance. Thanks for the link Germ

 

[Series70]

I also did the shimming modification described at loadmaster. But I used white polypropylene from the side of a pill bottle instead of the white card stock shim material. Two layers. Much more durable and even has a slight curve to fit the cavity perfectly.

 

[Potatohead]

Thanks for your comments.