Suggest a full-frame gun for me that's not a Glock or 1911 variant?

[franconialocal]

Another vote for the Sig P-220

I liked my issued duty weapon so much I went out and bought my own....then I bought the .22 conversion for it. Best $$ I spent on firearms in a long time. Super easy maint. and breakdown, flawless operation in all sorts of conditions, easy to clean/inspect, eats all kinds of ammo.... can't say enough good things about this sidearm. Really the only beef I have is with the .22 conversion....the fact that the slide does not stay open after the last round.

I own several other handguns as well but I would say that my 220 is my "go- to gun" before all others mostly based on trigger time and simplicity of use. It's comfortable, fits in the hand well (I have small hands too) and is just a real pleasure to shoot.

 

[Mark-Smith]

then I bought the .22 conversion for it. Best $$ I spent on firearms in a long time. Super easy maint. and breakdown, flawless operation in all sorts of conditions, easy to clean/inspect, eats all kinds of ammo.... can't say enough good things about this sidearm. Really the only beef I have is with the .22 conversion....the fact that the slide does not stay open after the last round.

What's the point of a .22 conversion with a larger caliber pistol? .45 ain't cheap, but other than that, is there any other draw to firing .22 in a pistol rather than in a .22 rifle for instance?

 

[Comedian]

If you like H&K (you said you'd buy an MK 23 if the price was right, so I'm assuming you do) why not buy a USP? They can usually be had new for 800 or less. Lightly used you could probably get it for less than 600. The double action trigger is pretty rough out of the box, but if you polish it and/or dry fire the snot out of it it'll improve quite a bit. You can buy a drop in match trigger for a couple hundred bucks. The USP tactical comes with it stock, as well as a threaded barrel, but I tend to see them for about 1,000ish.

 

[Ken451]

What's the point of a .22 conversion with a larger caliber pistol? .45 ain't cheap, but other than that, is there any other draw to firing .22 in a pistol rather than in a .22 rifle for instance?

A lot of people like the .22 conversions but I agree with you. I have a .22 conversion for my CZ-75B but if I want to shoot .22, I find my Ruger Mk II more enjoyable.

 

[Mark-Smith]

If you like H&K (you said you'd buy an MK 23 if the price was right, so I'm assuming you do) why not buy a USP? They can usually be had new for 800 or less. Lightly used you could probably get it for less than 600. The double action trigger is pretty rough out of the box, but if you polish it and/or dry fire the snot out of it it'll improve quite a bit. You can buy a drop in match trigger for a couple hundred bucks. The USP tactical comes with it stock, as well as a threaded barrel, but I tend to see them for about 1,000ish.

TBH, I've heard nothing but good things about the USP and Mk. 23 (well, aside from 'expensive' and 'you can't run them over with a tank'), but I've never fired a single HK firearm.

I *have* drooled over a USP tactical in the store, but that $1,200 seemed like quite a lot. However, $600 used is within my power in the foreseeable future. Threaded barrel would be nice, but sadly I think a can is a purchase a little more down the road.

As far as the trigger goes, what's the difference between the stock and the tactical trigger? I'm fairly mechanically inclined, so if it's just fit and finish, that seems like something that could be done by hand. If it's 'Parts that would cost just as much to make on your own with those tolerances', oh well heh.

 

[Ken451]

FWIW, I had a H&K USP 9 and just never cared for the gun. But I am a person who prefers steel guns, YMMV. The USP was the only poly gun I've ever had. I traded it for my Sig P220. I'm happy with that trade (ecstatic, actually).

Ken

 

[9mmepiphany]

What's the point of a .22 conversion with a larger caliber pistol? .45 ain't cheap, but other than that, is there any other draw to firing .22 in a pistol rather than in a .22 rifle for instance?

A .22lr conversion lets you work with the exact controls of your CF pistol, but more important, it allows you to shoot with the exact trigger of your CF pistol...that practice pays a huge benefit toward better shooting.

And that doesn't even take into account that you can use it with the same holster and mag pouches you would normally use for carry

 

[Mark-Smith]

FWIW, I had a H&K USP 9 and just never cared for the gun. But I am a person who prefers steel guns, YMMV. The USP was the only poly gun I've ever had. I traded it for my Sig P220. I'm happy with that trade (ecstatic, actually).

I've been looking for something that has more stopping power than my Glock 26, longer barrel and a heavier frame. (and isn't another Glock or 1911 variant).

What didn't you like about the USP vs the Sig P220?

 

[Mark-Smith]

A .22lr conversion lets you work with the exact controls of your CF pistol, but more important, it allows you to shoot with the exact trigger of your CF pistol...that practice pays a huge benefit toward better shooting.

And that doesn't even take into account that you can use it with the same holster and mag pouches you would normally use for carry

Interesting... I've seen a few for rifles and full auto guns, but never semi-auto pistols (not in person any way). I would have thought that the difference in recoil / bullet behavior would have made the lessons learned from practicing with it vs the caliber it's normally chambered in a bit of a wash, good to hear otherwise.

 

[MCMXI]

What's the point of a .22 conversion with a larger caliber pistol? .45 ain't cheap, but other than that, is there any other draw to firing .22 in a pistol rather than in a .22 rifle for instance?

I have a Kimber .22LR conversion kit that I use on my TEII. It works quite well with good quality ammunition. I've used it for a USPSA steel match. As 9mmepiphany stated, same trigger, same controls, same holster, same mag pouches, same draw ... all good.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I would have thought that the difference in recoil / bullet behavior would have made the lessons learned from practicing with it vs the caliber it's normally chambered in a bit of a wash, good to hear otherwise.

If you understand that shooting accurately with a handgun is mostly a function of trigger control and that you concede that recoil and bullet behavior occur after the sear releases the hammer/striker, what difference would it make what caliber you practice with for defensive applications of a handgun (as opposed to hunting or long range shooting). It is not like you can hold a handgun down in recoil and you can't shoot any faster than you can see your aligned sights on target.

That is why shooters from Japan could practice with airsoft guns and come to America and be competitive at the Bianchi Cup (now NRA Action Pistol)

 

[MCMXI]

That is why shooters from Japan could practice with airsoft guns and come to America and be competitive at the Bianchi Cup (now NRA Action Pistol)

Surely they're shooting 9mm pistols!!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Surely they're shooting 9mm pistols!!

Sorry...poor sentence structure

They practiced with airsoft pistols, then took those leasons and applied it to CF pistols which they borrowed when they came stateside to compete. I don't recall clearly, but I believe they were either 9mm or 38Super 1911s.

I believe they came over a month early to get adapted to the feel of the CF cartridges/guns

 

[MCMXI]

OK ... that's a little easier to swallow.

 

[Ken451]

What didn't you like about the USP vs the Sig P220?

I just didn't care for the feel. The rough (non changeable) grips for one thing. Surely it was a good pistol, but just not one that I cared for. I guess my personal preferences go to steel Sigs and 1911s. As I said earlier, YMMV.

 

[Comedian]

As far as the trigger goes, what's the difference between the stock and the tactical trigger? I'm fairly mechanically inclined, so if it's just fit and finish, that seems like something that could be done by hand. If it's 'Parts that would cost just as much to make on your own with those tolerances', oh well heh.

The difference is that the tactical comes with H&K's factory match trigger assembly, which is lighter and smoother than the stock USP trigger. I have a USP compact that has the stock V1 trigger in it, and I never had a major issue with it. I dry fire the crap out of mine and it's improved quite a bit. In the process I suspect my trigger control improved a whole lot as result. There used to be a How-to guide on HKPro that detailed how to strip and polish your fire control group, so I'd go check the forums there if your interested in that route.
TBH, I never use the double action trigger (outside of dry fire practice) to begin with because I carry cocked 'n' locked, so the sub-standard DA mode never bothered me. Keep in mind you could always buy a USP and, if you absolutely hated the DA trigger and aren't willing to polish it yourself, buy a drop in match trigger kit from HKparts.net for about $134.

 

[franconialocal]

Basically I bought the .22 conversion because of the financial aspect of it first...."training" second.

Here on the PD we are limited to a once-per-year qualification course due to the budgets being what they are. A good .22 conversion allows me to shoot much, much more beyond what my own personal finances could support. The sight picture is the same, I can use my same holster, trigger pull/break point is the same, draw (weight) from the holster is a bit lighter but not that much. It's good for drills and practice, practice, practice. 9mmEph. hit the nail on the head with his comment that if you can get beyond the whole recoil difference then it's just a great training tool.

It's a great way to work on your grip, overall handling of the firearm, getting familiar with the controls and a host of other reasons. I've even had my range officers on board with possibly picking up a few for the PD so we could train/drill more often than our budget really allows.

Yes..I would much rather shoot full caliber all day long but I just can't afford it on a police officer salary

 

[Mark-Smith]

Yes..I would much rather shoot full caliber all day long but I just can't afford it on a police officer salary

At $275 for a Glock 26 .22 conversion, I'd have to fire 1,125 rounds before seeing any cost savings at all. I probably go through about 75-150 rounds a month, so... Yeah.

That's for 9mm though, for .45 and if I got out to the range more than once or twice a month, it might make more sense.

 

[USAF-ORF]

I spent an hour last week looking a new pistols at my local gun store.
I am going to get a Springfield XD 45 soon. ( my wife OKed it )
It felt like an extention of my hand and it sighted up quickly. I also found a internal laser offered for it.
Choice 2 was the Sig in .45 and 3rd was the FNP .45
I wish I could get them all But one Piece of exspensive Jewlery = one New Gun

 

[scandmx5]

Bersa HC9 or HC40.
EAA Witness

 

[9mmepiphany]

At $275 for a Glock 26 .22 conversion, I'd have to fire 1,125 rounds before seeing any cost savings at all. I probably go through about 75-150 rounds a month, so... Yeah.

When I was trying to become a competent shot, I was shooting 100-200 rounds a week...so I guess I'd recoup the cost in between 3 months or a month and a half...call it 2 months. Plus I'l bet after than much practice with a .22lr, you'd be a better shot too

 

[Carter]

CZ-75 SP01 Phantom. Or any CZ-75 variant for that matter. Extremely accurate and with a comp hammer and new spring its as good as gold.

 

[jiminhobesound]

Carry? Home defense? Plinking? Capacity, concealability, recoil??????

 

[Mark-Smith]

Carry? Home defense? Plinking? Capacity, concealability, recoil??????

The ability to use it for CC when the weather in Texas is more conducive to concealing larger-framed guns would be nice, but tbh, mostly for range use, the nightstand, or any other application where weight and size aren't a major issue.

Shooting comfort, accuracy, .45 caliber or larger, frame heavy enough to prevent sharp felt recoil and in the $800 and under range are the major considerations.

If revolvers weren't limited to 5-6 shots, I might look at those as well. Taurus raging bull in .44 mag, 454 casull or even 500 S&W (contemplating the skyrocketing ammo cost!) has been on my want list for a while come to think of it

I just want something that's really comfortable to shoot in a larger than 9mm caliber, and preferably accurate as well.

 

[Ken451]

The ability to use it for CC when the weather in Texas is more conducive to concealing larger-framed guns would be nice, but tbh, mostly for range use, the nightstand, or any other application where weight and size aren't a major issue.

Shooting comfort, accuracy, .45 caliber or larger, frame heavy enough to prevent sharp felt recoil and in the $800 and under range are the major considerations.

If revolvers weren't limited to 5-6 shots, I might look at those as well. Taurus raging bull in .44 mag, 454 casull or even 500 S&W (contemplating the skyrocketing ammo cost!) has been on my want list for a while come to think of it

I just want something that's really comfortable to shoot in a larger than 9mm caliber, and preferably accurate as well.

Well, in that case, a full sized .45 is easy to shoot, comfortable recoil, and reasonably easy to conceal even in hot weather. If you want to avoid a 1911, a Sig P220 is an easy to shoot, accurate, and not too heavy for a full sized gun.