Suggestions for an Inexpensive 9mm- with Caveats

[johnnydollar]

You can sometimes find the Arcus 94 for under $300 used. A Bulgarian re-imagining of the Browning Hi Power, it uses the readily available Hi Power magazines. All steel, with a beefed up frame and slide, the 94 has no trouble with +P loads.

 

[DeadEye9]

Thanks for the quick response. Should've also mentioned that I want a full size handgun, not a compact or sub.
35W

Honestly if all you want is a good inexpensive and reliable 9mm to keep around the S&W SD9VE comes to mind. They can be had new for $300-325, come with two 16 round mags and is essentially a rip off of the Glock design. The only complaint I have is the trigger is a bit harsh in stock trim, but a simple fix is just to shoot the gun a lot. I love my Glocks, Sigs, 1911s etc but still always found myself bringing the SD out to the range weekly just because I wanted to put rounds through it as the more I shoot it the better it felt. This is a striker fired option, but in the price department you really can't beat the value and reliability. I never had any hiccups with mine in the thousands of rounds I've put through it and every other owner Ive talked to said the same thing. Another benefit of it being essentially a Glock "clone" is that some of the parts are interchangeable with Glock parts which are EVERYWHERE. In fact I didn't like the factory plastic guide rod/spring in the SD so I replaced mine with a Glock recoil spring right off the bat and it was 100% compatible. If I were again in the market for an inexpensive 9mm Duty size handgun this would be hands down my choice. Price, value, reliability, etc. this thing has it, and IMO it doesn't look that bad either for a budget pistol.

 

[Bbra]

Canik/Tri-Star makes a great CZ75 clone for not a lot of money.

I (tried) to shoot a co-worker's Canik. Jam city with most ammo we tried, hardball and HP. He traded it off with no regrets. Maybe he just got a lemon.

 

[35 Whelen]

My SAR B6P arrived Friday. I had to go out of town but I hurried home, grabbed a box of shells and hied off out behind the shop where I chronographed and fired a couple of different loads.

I've never been a fan of the 9mm, double-stack autos, DA triggers or polymer frames, (Been shooting a 1911 since I was 19, 34 years ago!!) but I have to say I love this pistol. Hands down the best value I've ever gotten in a pistol. I fired another box or so through it today.

My only complaints are:

1) The SA trigger has a little creep and is slightly heavy at 5.5 - 6 lbs. I will remedy this as soon as I figure out how to disassemble the innards.
2) The magazine gets quite difficult to load after about 10 rounds.

As time goes by I'll post more here about it.

Many, many thanks to whoever turned me on to the SAR!!

35W

 

[BigBL87]

Re: the magazines, a Maglula Uplula Speed Loader would be a great buy. Probably my favorite addition to my range bag and it has saved my thumbs from alot of wear and tear.

As far as the trigger goes, mine was probably a smidge lighter but pretty close. Just be careful and don't mess up any of the internals, I imagine getting spare parts from EAA would be an adventure. Mine lightened up a bit with use so I never really looked into doing anything more.

 

[hemiram]

I've bought parts from EAA quite a few times over the years and I have to say it's much more pleasant these days. No hostility, no adventure at all.

 

[RON in PA]

Another vote for the Smith and Wesson SD9VE. Excellent ergonomics for a medium sized right hand. Workmanship on the slide is as good as any gun I've seen. It has been quite accurate in my experience as well as 100% reliable. The often criticized trigger is actually OK, shoot it as if it's a DA revolver trigger.

 

[C0untZer0]

I'm really intrigued by the SAR B6P. So far I haven't read anything bad about it.

The Bad:

The manual safety is very stiff. I can flick it off, but I can't engage the safety while gripping the gun normally, I have to change my grip to get my thumb pad totally under the lever to push it up. I can't just flick it up with the inside of my thumb.

The slide is hard to rack. Other people have noted that the slide is hard to rack. I work out with Captains of Crush gripppers 3 times a week and I have to admit, the slide is not easy to rack. The slide rides inside the frame and there just isn't a whole lot of slide sticking out to get a good purchase.

If anyone ever needs to send this pistol in for warranty work – they're going to have to pay both ways. EAA won't issue an airway bill and the instruction for sending it in says to be sure to include $20 for return shipping.

Also there is only a 1 year warranty and only for the original owner. I guess I'm spoiled by lifetime warranties.

The trigger gives your finger a little thwack with every shot. I started to notice it after 50 rounds and the trigger slap really gets annoying if you’re going to try to spend a day at the range shooting the B6P

After having the gun for a while I'd also add that the sharp ridge on the rear of the frame is bad. The Witness polymer doesn't have it, its just a pain on the SAR, literally, albeit a minor pain.

The Ugly:

Whatever coating they use on the manual safety and the slide stop lever is already showing signs of wear and I can see the sheen of bare metal starting to show through.

The double-action trigger is very heavy. I've heard it improves quite a bit with firing but right now it is barely usable.

The Mediocre and Miscellaneous:

I heard where so many people thought the single-action trigger was good, but I don't think it is. There is IMO, a lot of take up, about a 1/16th of an inch, and then maybe 1/8th of an inch of travel before the trigger breaks, just seems like a lot of travel for an SA trigger and the SA trigger is fairly heavy, at least for an SA trigger. My trigger also wiggles from side to side, there seems to be too much play - left to right movement on the trigger.

My gun came with a 15-round magazine and it really is a 15-round magazine. There was some talk on forums that the magazines might say "15" but would hold 16 or 17 rounds and I can tell you that the magazine I received will only hold 15 rounds. Yes I know the product description says "SAR 4.5" 16+1 polymer-framed, SA/DA B6P" but 16 rounds are not going in the magazine I received. Mec-Gar does make 17rd and 19rd magazines for this gun.

 

[jmr40]

$300 won't get you much. To meet your criteria a used Beretta or 3rd gen S&W are the 2 that come closest but you'll go over $300. Worth the price IMO. One of the nice features of the Smiths is that the full size magazines will work in the double stack compact guns increasing ammo capacity.

 

[35 Whelen]

I handled a Beretta and abhor the beer bottle size grips. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the S&W's are DAO and as stated early on, I prefer a hammer.

"My gun came with a 15-round magazine and it really is a 15-round magazine."

Mine is supposedly a 16+1, but right now its magazine has in it 17 rounds of W-W 115 gr. Silvertip HP.

I get the pistol isn't perfect for everyone, but for heaven's sake it cost $250! The small things like the stiff safety and trigger pull are super easy to remedy at home. The "trigger slap" I occassionally hear about, honestly I have no idea what that is. Maybe it only affects folks with soft fingers or something.

35W

 

[greyling22]

slickguns is advertising some rough condition kareem hi-powers for $240.

 

[C0untZer0]

I get the pistol isn't perfect for everyone, but for heaven's sake it cost $250!

The Good:

The price and the value are pretty good . Two hundred and forty two bucks for a CZ knock-off that works – is a pretty good deal.

The fit and finish is good, I don't see tool marks on this pistol – even in places where it doesn't matter like the inside of the slide.

The gun is shootable, not too much recoil with various 9mm ammo, but its what you'd expect with a full-sized nine.

The gun is accurate - not 25 yard competition accurate, but it is generally accurate. I am able to create 3” groups at 10 yards standing, shooting offhand and that’s good enough for me for a gun that I basically have for carjacking or other types of roadway emergencies.

The gun seems reliable – so far. I've shot over 800 rounds through it now and the gun cycled everything I've fed it – 115gr Winchester White box FMJ, 124gr Blazer Brass FMJ, 147gr bonded Golden Saber, 147gr Winchester Ranger “T” Series, 147gr Federal HST, 124gr Lawman TMJ, 115gr Federal “Champion” FMJ. 124gr Gold Dots, Tulammo BrassMaxx, ZQI 123gr "NATO", and a box of 115gr Perfecta FMJ. I also mixed different cartridges within the same mag. I didn't experience any problems. I even put some cartridges in there that had experienced light strikes from other guns and the B6P fired them off with no problems.

The gun comes in a really nice case. I know this isn't very high on people's list of priorities but I've paid 3 times more for a gun from S&W and it came in a cardboard box. Getting a nice case is a pleasant bonus when you're buying a budget gun.

 

[lsudave]

slickguns is advertising some rough condition kareem hi-powers for $240.

yeah, I'm in for one

I already have a FEG HP, which apparently also was very rough before it got parkerized. Now. there's a little irregularity near the muzzle (had pitted), but otherwise, ... well, it's a park'd steel gun. It isn't shiny, but it functions well.

I've stared and stared at the stock picture, and from what I can tell, it has the Browning-style cam, which would make it a 100% BHP clone. My FEG has the same flare at the base of the magwell, so that would suggest that these are the first-gen Kareens, basically FEG parts assembled in Israel, and 100% compatible with BHP parts. I see these as the equivalent of the old Norinco 1911's, before the ban- it gets your foot in the door, in a very nice platform.

 

[WestKentucky]

Beretta sights are not bad. I prefer the Taurus pt92 for the sights (and safety) but the beretta sights are certainly manageable. They are certainly not a high dollar 1911 sight or any thing special to be honest, but they are far from being so small that they are not useful. It's a military design, and quick target aquisition is pretty easy, just don't expect it to shoot golf tees at 25yards.

 

[greyling22]

yeah, I'm in for one

I already have a FEG HP, which apparently also was very rough before it got parkerized. Now. there's a little irregularity near the muzzle (had pitted), but otherwise, ... well, it's a park'd steel gun. It isn't shiny, but it functions well.

I've stared and stared at the stock picture, and from what I can tell, it has the Browning-style cam, which would make it a 100% BHP clone. My FEG has the same flare at the base of the magwell, so that would suggest that these are the first-gen Kareens, basically FEG parts assembled in Israel, and 100% compatible with BHP parts. I see these as the equivalent of the old Norinco 1911's, before the ban- it gets your foot in the door, in a very nice platform.

I keep wanting to refurbish one of those old hi-powers, but by the time I got it refinished, cut the slide and installed sights I could see, did trigger work, nice grips, it just doesn't make financial sense. But maybe I just have too high of standards. maybe all I need are decent sights and some time with the stones on the trigger bits. and grips, and......oh nuts, I'm doing it again!

 

[lsudave]

Ok, an update for those interested- my Kareen arrived, and although I've got to wait, I did get to inspect it.

Gunprime did themselves a big disservice with the stock photos, the pistol I received is in much better condition. I'd say somewhere on the borders of G-VG. Nice blued finish, with wear along the edges and at the muzzle, no rust or pitting evidence at all. Probably 85% finish remains on the slide, higher on the frame. Internals are clean and in great shape. Trigger is very slick and crisp, much better than the parkerized FEG I got from Cole's; and this despite the fact that I removed the mag safety on the FEG, and it's still present on the Kareen.
I went and handled a new Browning (blued, priced at a grand) in the store earlier this week, and fit and feel, it has no discernible difference to the Kareen I'm receiving. The Kareen might even have a better trigger, to be honest... it definitely isn't WORSE.

I field-stripped it and it is the Browning barrel and action. Cam is very visible in the blue finish on the frame, the correct barrel in place.

This gun is an absolute steal at this price !!!

 

[Everready73]

My SAR B6P arrived Friday. I had to go out of town but I hurried home, grabbed a box of shells and hied off out behind the shop where I chronographed and fired a couple of different loads.

I've never been a fan of the 9mm, double-stack autos, DA triggers or polymer frames, (Been shooting a 1911 since I was 19, 34 years ago!!) but I have to say I love this pistol. Hands down the best value I've ever gotten in a pistol. I fired another box or so through it today.

My only complaints are:

1) The SA trigger has a little creep and is slightly heavy at 5.5 - 6 lbs. I will remedy this as soon as I figure out how to disassemble the innards.
2) The magazine gets quite difficult to load after about 10 rounds.

As time goes by I'll post more here about it.

Many, many thanks to whoever turned me on to the SAR!!

35W

I have one and really like it. Almost 2k rounds and no malfunctions. My trigger did smooth out some. There is a sticky on the CZ forum under the "Clone section" on how to do a trigger job on it. Also you can find some holsters for it specifically on eBay and such, but the fobus sg21 holster fits it great. I have one and use it all the time on the range. Good retention and fit. Also check out Greg Cotes online store for the Mecgar cz75 19 round mags. They are reasonable and work great and are easy to load unlike the factory one(it does loosen some)Have to firmly press them in. The 17 round ones work to from want I remember. I wish someone would come out with a fiber optic front site for it! It's a great gun and value from my experience. Good choice!

 

[DT Guy]

I keep wanting to refurbish one of those old hi-powers, but by the time I got it refinished, cut the slide and installed sights I could see, did trigger work, nice grips, it just doesn't make financial sense. But maybe I just have too high of standards. maybe all I need are decent sights and some time with the stones on the trigger bits. and grips, and......oh nuts, I'm doing it again!

(Ben Stiller voice....) "DO IT; DO IT!"










Larry

 

[C0untZer0]

Have to firmly press them in.

I purchased the 19rd Mec-Gar CZ 75B magazine - MGCZ7519AFC. The magazine fit it but not easily, I really had to slap that mag in there otherwise it didn't click in.

I read on the CZ Forums that some other owners were having the same problem and they just took a Dremel to one of the slots and fixed it.

If you look at the magazine face-on, (as if the bullet tips were facing you), you can see the slot on the left is a little lower than the slot on the right.

So I went to Home Depot and bought the diamond tip for my Dremel. I took a little less than 1/32" off the top of just the slot on the left and the mag goes in easily now, but still fits in tight and releases fine. I've shot hundreds of rounds using this magazine with no problems whatsoever. The mag ejects fine and inserts fine.

I've heard that Mec-Gar actually makes the 16-round OEM mag that comes with the B6P.

Here is a magazine compatability list for CZ~ish guns:

http://czechpistols82792.yuku.com/topic/8190/Magazine-Compatibility-Master-List?page=1#.VdvNxMaFO1s

 

[35 Whelen]

I purchased the 19rd Mec-Gar CZ 75B magazine - MGCZ7519AFC. The magazine fit it but not easily, I really had to slap that mag in there otherwise it didn't click in.

I read on the CZ Forums that some other owners were having the same problem and they just took a Dremel to one of the slots and fixed it.

If you look at the magazine face-on, (as if the bullet tips were facing you), you can see the slot on the left is a little lower than the slot on the right.

So I went to Home Depot and bought the diamond tip for my Dremel. I took a little less than 1/32" off the top of just the slot on the left and the mag goes in easily now, but still fits in tight and releases fine. I've shot hundreds of rounds using this magazine with no problems whatsoever. The mag ejects fine and inserts fine.

I've heard that Mec-Gar actually makes the 16-round OEM mag that comes with the B6P.

Here is a magazine compatability list for CZ~ish guns:

http://czechpistols82792.yuku.com/topic/8190/Magazine-Compatibility-Master-List?page=1#.VdvNxMaFO1s

I bought two of the Mec-Gar magazines for the CZ-75B and with a VERY minimal amount of work on the right side retention slot, both magazines work perfectly.

I've been working on the SA trigger pull on mine and have it down to 4.5 lbs. I may do a detailed little "how-to" thread on the CZ forum once I'm finished.

35W

 

[Deanimator]

Look at ex-Israeli Browning Hi Powers. I've got a commercial gun that I carry from time to time. The Israeli guns have much better sights than mine, although mine has the modern safety lever.

 

[C0untZer0]

I put a Lyman on mine just now and the SA trigger pull is averaging about 4lbs 6.6 ounces, but that's after hundreds of rounds, plus a lot of dry-fire practice both DA and SA.

 

[greyling22]

Those are lovely. But here is the thousand dollar question: were they beat up trade ins when you got them, and price of the gun aside, how much do you have in each one?

(Ben Stiller voice....) "DO IT; DO IT!"










Larry

 

[Analogkid]

Sar b6p, cz99, or EZ99, Taurus pt809, S&W sd9ve.

I have all of these. The first three have 3 seasons of running plates on them. I have no complaints on any of them. The Sar b6p, EZ99 and Taurus are my most liked Cheapo 9mm's Lot of value for the Dollar. The pt809 and ez99 have crept way up in price.

 

[DT Guy]

Those are lovely. But here is the thousand dollar question: were they beat up trade ins when you got them, and price of the gun aside, how much do you have in each one?

The silver was a commercial that got a new top end; the bronze was an Izzy surplus I got for around $300 IIRC? With parts and CeraKote (do it myself) I have about another $300 in it, with all my own labor.

Larry