CZ75 SA versus EAA Elite Match 9mm?

[foxmoor]

I'm interested in a new range gun and have pretty much narrowed it down to these two pistols. I'm a big CZ fan and have a number of their guns but I'm intrigued by the reports on the EAA Witness Elite Match (in 9mm). However, I've also read the horror stories about customer service and some magazine issues with the Match in 9mm. They appear to be about the same price, around $500-600. Please feel free to weigh in with your thoughts. Thanks in a advance.

Kent in MI

 

[wbwanzer]

I've not owned or shot the CZ SA so I can't comment. But I do have the Witness Elite Match in 9 and it is a fine pistol in my opinion. That SA trigger is really nice. I bought mine used so I don't worry about EAA cust service. If I have a problem I'll send it to someone else to fix.

 

[Dunedain]

Considering the many bad things I've heard from owners on various forums about quality control and customer service at EAA, I wouldn't even consider buying anything from them.

Get a real CZ 75 and you'll love it.

 

[Japle]

I have a somewhat tricked-out CZ 75SA and two Witness pistols.



I've had no problems with one of the Witnesses, but the .45 has been a nightmare.
EAA has been no help at all, blaming me, my ammo, and anything else they could think of.
As another poster said, EAA's customer service sucks.

Google "EAA" and "Customer service" before you decide.

 

[ckone]

I've owned both and will be picking up the new 75 Shadow converted to SAO any day now (a better version of both/either IMHO, but at twice the price unfourtanetly)...

For the money the Elite Match is the one you want. It's trigger is pre AND over-travel adjustable (the 75 SA's is only for over-travel) and it's firing pin block design is much less obtrusive to the pull than the CZ's design. Also, for the 75 SA to really even be close in trigger-quality it'll need a CZ-Customs competition hammer.

Yeah, the EAA 9mm mags can be iffy, but as of the 1st of the year Mec-Gar is making a newer version that seems to have cured most if not all of the issues, that said, even the older design mags with the spacer in the front can be made to work fine with 12-13rds if you put in +10% mag springs.

The Tanfo is a larger framed gun them the CZ if that's a concern but can be made thinner and more manageable with a set of Henning's grips (expensive but worth it).

I love CZ's but for the bang for the buck it's nearly impossible to beat an Elite Match, it's a custom-shop gun that'll out shoot guns costing six times as much, $500 or so will not get you anything near as nice.

EAA suck, maybe the worst importer ever and their poor customer service is legendary... but the Tanfoglio Elite series are great, you'll likely never need them, IMO it's not that big of a risk. If good company support is a real concern to you get the CZ but spring for the competition hammer and SAO adjustable trigger from CZ-Customs and install them with help from the ample info on the CZForum.

 

[foxmoor]

Guys, thanks for all the help. I've ordered the EAA Elite Match in 9mm and it should be here in a few days. If I do need any service help, I'll likely just send it off somewhere besides EAA, such as Henning or others. Thanks and I'll report back when the Match arrives.

Kent in MI

 

[wbwanzer]

I think you'll be really pleased with the Elite Match. I am more accurate with mine than I am with my other 9mms.

 

[hardluk1]

Had a .40 cal match elit for play and matchs, Traded for carry glock only because i stopped shooting match's. You can by a match elit for just under 500 and i also had a 9mm conversion kit too and both were completly 100% perfect. I do detail the mags and check the opening widths, clean and debur the followers and lightly oil with break free inside. Both calibers shoot everthing. Some up grade the springs to wolf 5% or 10% heavier springs and say that helps alot. Accuracy was great and even an sti shooter bought one as mine in his hands shot better than his sti long slide. Only problem you might find well with the mags and that is tuneable . Check out Brian Enoss EAA forums and look to henningshootsguns.com for and comp/match up grades. There is also a new witness forum that was treaded here a couple months back. Henning is a tanfogleo team shooter also .Also makes some assesories. Oh they are a heavy gun at clse to 40oz so that does help to keep them stable.

Check out the K2 that eaa offers for 450 retail. It is from Turkey and is aDA/SA leo or military sidearem and i beleive the parts are also from tanfogleo. At 450 retail it should be bought for around 375 at a desent dealer.

 

[floydster]

I have CZ's and Witness Match pistols.
Two 9mm CZ's
Two Elite Match pistols in 38 Super and 45 ACP.
I have many thousand rounds thru all of these guns with no problems, the Match pistols are excellent----in the 45 ACP alone I have well over 8,000 rounds with no visable wear.

 

[ajoker31]

I had the same dilema. I have previously owned a CZ-75B and CZ-75SA...I liked both CZ's, they were both very accurate but I hated the trigger creep and could never fully get rid of it.

Recently I decided I wanted another target shooter to go with my Hi Power. Something I could play with and tweak. I ended up buying the elite match in 9mm. It just arrived yesterday. Very tight gun with no creep and a very nice out of the box trigger. I haven't shot it yet but so far I'm impressed with the quality.

Best,
Jerry

 

[ajoker31]

Witness elite match 9mm

I was able to get out to the range today. I took the Elite Match a Browning Hi Power and XDm all in 9mm. They all shot very well. I was very impressed with the Elite Match on it's first trip to the range.

The Elite Match was very tight and seemed as though the recoil spring was a bit too stiff causing it to cylce much slower than my other 9mm's. Other than a 3rd round FTE it performed very well. The trigger, after setting the pre and overtravel screws and dry firing is just amazing!

I put a +10% Wolff magazine spring in it and streched out a pair of rubber Hogue finger groove grips that reluctantly went on after some work. I currently own seven 9mm's and all are very accurate pistols. The Elite Match compares very well with my custom Hi Power and is just as accurate if not better. It fits my hand very well, is scary accurate and I really had to get used to the lack of recoil.

If the Elite Match continues to perform like it did at the end of my range session today, it will easily be my favorite target/range pistol! A huge value at any price.

If you aren't afraid to tune and tweak a high performance target pistol then this is a great choice!

Best,
Jerry

 

[foxmoor]

Jerry,
Thanks for the update on your new Elite Match 9mm. It sounds as if you didn't have any of the magazine related issues that some users have reported but apparently may have been cured recently with a new mag design - good news indeed. I've only dry fired mine and I agree that the trigger is amazing.

I was thinking of putting some Hogue Fingergrove wraparound grips on my Elite, but some have reported that it prevents the magazines from dropping free. Was that your experience? Thanks for any input.

I look forward to shooting mine this weekend.

Kent in MI

 

[ajoker31]

I'm not sure if the Wolff +10% mag spring made a difference or not, because I used it from the beginning and I have a front spacer in my magazine. I haven't had a problem with it yet though.

The Hogue grips really have to be streched to get them on....it does impede the magazine from dropping free smoothly without assistance. I'm not sure if time will make a difference or if I should sand off a bit of the rubber from the inside of the grip. Since my witness is purely a range/target pistol, pulling the magazine out doesn't really bother me. If I was into competition shooting I'd have to find a way to make them fall free.....but I really really like the finger groove grips so I'll leave it for now. They just seem to melt the pistol into my hand.

I didn't get a chance to take the witness out this weekend, but hope to go out this weekend for round two!

Best Regards,
Jerry

 

[Sevens]

Wow, I'm gettin' giddy! I've been on the fence about one of these for... well, it's been a damn long while. Yesterday, I ordered one. Sent the check today and my FFL faxed his info. I'll have one here in about a week -- the views in this thread have made me smile!

I can't wait to bring this one in to the family!

 

[Giterboosted]

Japle, what kind is the .45? I just bought the same gun in 9, and I'm not sure on what it technically is, with the ports and whatnot, it shoots very well, I'm not too accurate with it yet but I'm thinking its a mix of the ammo and the user lol

 

[Japle]

Giterboosted,

The .45 was one of a run for Lew Hortons. It had a compact, ported barrel and slide on a full-size frame.
It worked great for a while, but the ports were a problem. They sheared off the surface of lead reloads and plated the sides of the front sight. Due to the Wonder finish, the lead brushed off easily, so that wasn’t too bad. With plated bullets, which is what I usually shoot, the ports shaved off tiny, thin slivers of plating and stuck them in my face. I replaced the ported barrel with an unported one from a full-size gun. That worked really well. I was happy.

Then the thing started locking the slide open with rounds still in the mag. It got progressively worse, until it was happening every few rounds. I contacted EAA and talked to their “gunsmith”. He was a total jerk. He told me it was the ammo I was using, or I was “limp-wristing” the gun or anything else he could think of that would make it my fault. I hadn’t said anything about what ammo I was using, but he informed me that I had obviously used “hot” or defective ammo or hot handloads and they wouldn’t honor the warranty. So, no help from EAA.

I ordered a bunch of different weight recoil springs from Wolff and a slide stop and spring from Henning. None of that helped much, if at all. I modified the slide stop, suspecting the top round in the mag was hitting it. Even after grinding it down to where it wouldn’t work at all, the problem persisted.

The gun was a safe queen for years. Then I took it out a few months ago and it worked much better. Don’t know why. After a couple of hundred rounds, it seems to be OK again. Maybe the damned thing was haunted. I still don’t trust it.

 

[wally]

In 9mm or .40S&W get the CZ.
While the Witness Elite Match is a great gun there are too many mag issues in 9mm, .40S&W and 10mm. Its bigger than you need in the grip for a 9mm.

In .45ACP the Elite Match is the gun the CZ95 should have been, its also a great choice in .38Super, but in the other calibers its going to depend on your luck of the draw with gun tolerances and the mags EAA ships. EAA customer service is not helpful. Here is the product insert that comes with any mag you buy from them:

 

[Walt Sherrill]

For the money the Elite Match is the one you want. It's trigger is pre AND over-travel adjustable (the 75 SA's is only for over-travel) and it's firing pin block design is much less obtrusive to the pull than the CZ's design. Also, for the 75 SA to really even be close in trigger-quality it'll need a CZ-Customs competition hammer.

I generally agree with these comments, but will note that there is an optional 2-way adjustable CZ trigger available that allows for take-up adjustments, too. (I have that in mine, and have had it in others.)

If you buy your gun directlly from the CZ Custom Shop, you can get all the required work done with custom parts, and end up with a very nice gun that is less expensive than would be the case if you had that word done later, with shipping, etc., etc.