Summer wear

[Old Dog]

But some people are so far against it, I have to question how they got to that position.

Just occasionally, even on the internet, sometimes people hold a position they've arrived at through actual experience.

Just to be honest. You sound like a bunch of liberals that's peed off at the world because they are not just like you or hold you up like some kind of gun God.

Whoa there, hoss. No need to drop the L-word into the discussion.

Pointing out the limitations of a mode of concealed carry isn't the same as calling out proponents of that mode of carry as incompetent morons, or being upset because others on the internet don't hold one up as some kind of gun god.

 

[trackskippy]

I don't get it. What's the problem if someone wants to pocket carry? That doesn't mean you have to. Carry the way "You" want to and let others do the same.
Just to be honest. You sound like a bunch of liberals that's peed off at the world because they are not just like you or hold you up like some kind of gun God.
Just saying. Me.

Carry however you want and for whatever reason, no one is telling you not to pocket carry, some of us simply pointed out some of the problems with it, and off we go down the rabbit hole simply because someone took offense to someone finding or pointing out possible fault.

Every type of gun, every method of carry etc, has its pros and cons. The only way I know to actually know whats what with any of them, is to actually put in the time and effort to give them all a good try and figure out what works best for you, and across the board, not just one narrow aspect of things. Unless of course, that narrow aspect of things covers all of your needs and expectations.

The only "pocket" I carry anything serious in these days, is a Smart Carry. And thats because I can actually carry a more realistic gun in it, and access it from pretty much all the same ways I can when carrying AIWB. And that came about because I tried more traditional pocket carry and found it lacking "for me".

 

[Bcwitt]

My work requires me to climb, crawl, bend over, etc. Often times must wear a harness. Id love to pack more firepower in a good holster, but til tools & other equipment i need to keep track of, im pretty limited. I do not want to wear a gun 3 or 4 stories up on a ladder or a lift. I often have to resort to leaving it in the truck. In that situation, something like a j frame in a pocket holster makes a lot of sense. I can just remove it & lock it in a toolbox without making a scene.

 

[WisBorn]

Delete

 

[trackskippy]

My work requires me to climb, crawl, bend over, etc. Often times must wear a harness. Id love to pack more firepower in a good holster, but til tools & other equipment i need to keep track of, im pretty limited. I do not want to wear a gun 3 or 4 stories up on a ladder or a lift. I often have to resort to leaving it in the truck. In that situation, something like a j frame in a pocket holster makes a lot of sense. I can just remove it & lock it in a toolbox without making a scene.

Sounds like we were in similar jobs. I worked in heavy construction most of my life doing all sorts of stuff. Climbing in and out of machines, ditches, and structures, etc, doing a lot of physical labor in very active jobs.

The best holster Ive found for pretty much "any manner of dress, any place, and any activity" is the Smart Carry. You can wear it anywhere, dressy affairs, indoor office, outdoor work, or in just a pair of shorts with no shirt if you want. And you can carry a much more realistic gun too. You arent limited to the little back up type guns, although they work very well in one too. All depends on what you want and feel you need.

For me, and the environments I was often working in, its also the only holster that kept the gun in it clean and dirt/dust free, in places where everything else on you, ends up loaded with dirt, stones and all sorts of crap. Ive never seen any other holster be able to do that. IWB/AIWB, more often than not, you had to break the gun down at the end of the day and blow/clean it out because of all the dust and dirt that gets in the holster and gun.

If youre dressed realistically, for active work, its very comfortable and out of the way enough that it doesn't interfere with you bending at the waist, crawling around in tight places, etc. doing very active things.

If you havent tried one, I highly suggest them. And Ive got nothing to do with them either. They are just such a great, versatile holster, and one that many/most people dont have a clue about, and are really missing out on a very effective tool for carrying a gun, and other things as well.

www.smartcarry.com

Just be aware, there is another, very similar version of it out there called "Thunderwear". Id avoid them like the plague. They arent as well made, and I could easily trip the trigger of my 26 in the one I tried, by just pressing on it. Have never been able to do that with the Smart Carry. The material is heavy/stiff enough that as hard as I tried, I never been able to get it to go, and I worked hard at trying. The backing on the SC is waterproof too, so it doesn't sweat through or get wet.

Glock 19 with a 17 reload

 

[drobs]

You should be able to draw your gun one handed, no matter how you carry it, and practice that regularly. Its a little slower than two handed, and not by much, but still, usually easily done if youve practiced it.

As far as pocket carry, you have to be realistic with yourself about what it is and what it isnt. Its really not all that great, and for a number of reasons.

One, it severely limits the gun you carry. You give up a much better selection of more realistic guns for supposedly better concealment.

Two, it also severely limits how you can draw the gun and the speed you do that. Yes, in one instance, when you "might" have your hand on the gun, it "might" be somewhat speedy, but what about all the other ways you might be called on to get the gun out and going?

Can you quickly and easily draw starting with your hands out of your pockets? How about while struggling with someone and trying to get them off of you? How about seated at a table or strapped (or not) in your car? Can you do it without a lot of movement and drawing attention to yourself? Just putting a hand in a pocket is a signal in and of itself.

Three, at the distances where you would most likely have to try and quickly draw the gun, especially if your hand is already on it, it puts you in a really bad spot, as your opponent is likely very close, and easily able to trap your gun hand and gun, in your pocket, and making it very easy to control you and your gun. You dont want anyone close to you with your hand in a pocket.

It also pays to understand what and how action and reaction times are and work, and what OODA is all about. But then again, that applies to everything, not just pocket guns.

If you are thinking of tight jeans or tight pants pockets - that don't allow you to get a full grip on your pistol, yes you have valid criticisms.

I don't pocket carry in tight jeans / long pants. I wear these cargo shorts that are stretchy for front pocket carry. I can make a fist in my front pocket. I can also get a full shooting grip on my 7+1 Ruger LC9s Pro loaded with Federal 124gr HST in my front pocket.

https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-5...day-cargo-shorts.jsp?color=Wood Grain&prdPV=2
.
It's been 24 years since I have been in the Army where putting your hands in your trouser pockets was forbidden. I walk around with my hands in my pockets, even when pocket carrying.

With my hands, out of my pockets, I can do a surprisingly fast draw with my cargo shorts / Alabama Pocket Holster combination.

Drawing a pocket pistol while seated in a vehicle is difficult even with stretchy pockets. The work around for that is to transfer the holstered pocket gun from your front pocket into your strong side cargo pocket. Then do the reverse before getting out of your vehicle.

Drawing a pocket pistol while seated at a table without telegraphing - can be done slowly. Is it as fast as other forms of holster carry? No

As far as rolling around with an attacker on the ground, any draw is going to be slow. A 2nd weapon accessible by your off hand - Knife, Blackjack / Sap that you can access might be the way to go for that.

As far as trapping your gun hand in your pocket, the same can happen when you are going for your AIWB, OWB, IWB, cross draw, shoulder holster.

I'm out of state at the moment and pocket carrying in downtown Cheyenne, Wy. I did bring other guns and holsters with me. When I get back I'll do a video on fast draw from a front pocket. I have neighbor with a shot timer, I'll see if I can enlist him for the video.

 

[Southerner up North]

Have found most people don't notice anything anymore.

Very true statement. Most people have their focus on their phone, they notice nothing, even the.person they are about to walk into. Saw this first hand a few years ago in the mall in St. Cloud Minnesota. Less than a month after a multiple victim stabbing event. People with their nose glued to a phone.

You need to dress for where you live, around here, a Hawaiian shirt would be like having a spotlight pointed at you. Its strictly "Farmer Casual" around here, Carhartts with a Skoal ring, either Trump or FJB tee shirts, and the obligatory ball caps.

Unless of course youre Amish, then its Black/Grey and Straw.

110% agree on the undershirt, especially if youre carrying IWB/AIWB or even OWB. Its not just the metal of the gun thats the issue, its more about the leather holsters and exposed grips rubbing on you.

Dress for the locale you are in. Blend in and enjoy the day.

 

[Tallball]

You should be able to draw your gun one handed, no matter how you carry it, and practice that regularly. Its a little slower than two handed, and not by much, but still, usually easily done if youve practiced it.

As far as pocket carry, you have to be realistic with yourself about what it is and what it isnt. Its really not all that great, and for a number of reasons.

One, it severely limits the gun you carry. You give up a much better selection of more realistic guns for supposedly better concealment.

Two, it also severely limits how you can draw the gun and the speed you do that. Yes, in one instance, when you "might" have your hand on the gun, it "might" be somewhat speedy, but what about all the other ways you might be called on to get the gun out and going?

Can you quickly and easily draw starting with your hands out of your pockets? How about while struggling with someone and trying to get them off of you? How about seated at a table or strapped (or not) in your car? Can you do it without a lot of movement and drawing attention to yourself? Just putting a hand in a pocket is a signal in and of itself.

Three, at the distances where you would most likely have to try and quickly draw the gun, especially if your hand is already on it, it puts you in a really bad spot, as your opponent is likely very close, and easily able to trap your gun hand and gun, in your pocket, and making it very easy to control you and your gun. You dont want anyone close to you with your hand in a pocket.

It also pays to understand what and how action and reaction times are and work, and what OODA is all about. But then again, that applies to everything, not just pocket guns.

If you can't draw quickly and easily from your pocket one-handed, you're doing it wrong or have a body shape that just won't work for it. Don't blame the method.

I prefer cargo pocket carry. The fit of the pants or shorts has to be just about perfect. The pocket needs to be located in just the right place. The holster and handgun have to fit the pocket just right. If those things aren't just right, it really isn't a good carry method. If everything's correct, it's very good.

The legs of my shorts are tight enough that they don't move much. The pocket is the right size to hold an LCR and holster perfectly. With the pocket unopened, the grips are invisible to everyone but me. My fingers literally touch the grip when my arms dangle down naturally. It's easily available while sitting/driving. I've practiced for years and can draw it from muscle memory without even thinking.

I spent most of the last three days with "non-gun" friends and no one knew I was armed.

I've been unable to wear a belt for medical reasons for the past four years, so belt carry hasn't been an option for me. I've put some time and effort into it and practiced hard and found that pocket carry can be a very good option if you do it correctly. YMMV.

 

[The Night Rider]

What I'm about to say is very context dependent.

If you're walking down the street with your hand in your pocket people don't generally think about that.

If some crackhead is walking towards you in a gas station parking lot and you put your hand in your pocket....

They're not stupid and you're not their first rodeo.

Criminals calling the cops on normal citizens is a thing. Massad Ayoob has stated that he's seen it happens several times.

 

[trackskippy]

If you can't draw quickly and easily from your pocket one-handed, you're doing it wrong or have a body shape that just won't work for it. Don't blame the method.

I prefer cargo pocket carry. The fit of the pants or shorts has to be just about perfect. The pocket needs to be located in just the right place. The holster and handgun have to fit the pocket just right. If those things aren't just right, it really isn't a good carry method. If everything's correct, it's very good.

The legs of my shorts are tight enough that they don't move much. The pocket is the right size to hold an LCR and holster perfectly. With the pocket unopened, the grips are invisible to everyone but me. My fingers literally touch the grip when my arms dangle down naturally. It's easily available while sitting/driving. I've practiced for years and can draw it from muscle memory without even thinking.

I spent most of the last three days with "non-gun" friends and no one knew I was armed.

I've been unable to wear a belt for medical reasons for the past four years, so belt carry hasn't been an option for me. I've put some time and effort into it and practiced hard and found that pocket carry can be a very good option if you do it correctly. YMMV.

Youre kind of making my point on it being a limiting way to carry. Yea, if everything has to be "just about perfect" then thats basically all you got. What about everything else?

If youre well practiced at getting the gun going from how you carry it, and everything you wear will allow that to work, then youre likely good to go. But if a simple change of pants, shorts, or something else screws things up, then I know Id be looking for something else, and in fact, that's why I dont carry that way. To many limiting factors for primary carry.

Im not opposed to it for a BUG in some cases, if you have the available pocket space and pockets that will accommodate it, and it still gives access to both hands. Sure with the right guns it can work, but even then, Im still not real happy with it.

 

[InTheSwamp]

Sounds like we were in similar jobs. I worked in heavy construction most of my life doing all sorts of stuff. Climbing in and out of machines, ditches, and structures, etc, doing a lot of physical labor in very active jobs.

The best holster Ive found for pretty much "any manner of dress, any place, and any activity" is the Smart Carry. You can wear it anywhere, dressy affairs, indoor office, outdoor work, or in just a pair of shorts with no shirt if you want. And you can carry a much more realistic gun too. You arent limited to the little back up type guns, although they work very well in one too. All depends on what you want and feel you need.

For me, and the environments I was often working in, its also the only holster that kept the gun in it clean and dirt/dust free, in places where everything else on you, ends up loaded with dirt, stones and all sorts of crap. Ive never seen any other holster be able to do that. IWB/AIWB, more often than not, you had to break the gun down at the end of the day and blow/clean it out because of all the dust and dirt that gets in the holster and gun.

If youre dressed realistically, for active work, its very comfortable and out of the way enough that it doesn't interfere with you bending at the waist, crawling around in tight places, etc. doing very active things.

If you havent tried one, I highly suggest them. And Ive got nothing to do with them either. They are just such a great, versatile holster, and one that many/most people dont have a clue about, and are really missing out on a very effective tool for carrying a gun, and other things as well.

www.smartcarry.com

Just be aware, there is another, very similar version of it out there called "Thunderwear". Id avoid them like the plague. They arent as well made, and I could easily trip the trigger of my 26 in the one I tried, by just pressing on it. Have never been able to do that with the Smart Carry. The material is heavy/stiff enough that as hard as I tried, I never been able to get it to go, and I worked hard at trying. The backing on the SC is waterproof too, so it doesn't sweat through or get wet.

Glock 19 with a 17 reload

View attachment 1160861
View attachment 1160862
View attachment 1160863

So, you need to undress to pull the gun?

 

[InTheSwamp]

I carry the 43 and 43X with a regular shirt, or t-shirt; depending on the comfort level for the day.

 

[trackskippy]

So, you need to undress to pull the gun?

No, just put the palm of your hand against your belly, and slip your hand down and behind your pants at the belt, the gun is right there.

It helps if you suck your gut in a little as you do it, but either way, its quick and easy.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about what they are and how they work. You really need to try one out to understand them and see just how effective they are.

 

[Tallball]

Youre kind of making my point on it being a limiting way to carry. Yea, if everything has to be "just about perfect" then thats basically all you got. What about everything else?

If youre well practiced at getting the gun going from how you carry it, and everything you wear will allow that to work, then youre likely good to go. But if a simple change of pants, shorts, or something else screws things up, then I know Id be looking for something else, and in fact, that's why I dont carry that way. To many limiting factors for primary carry.

Im not opposed to it for a BUG in some cases, if you have the available pocket space and pockets that will accommodate it, and it still gives access to both hands. Sure with the right guns it can work, but even then, Im still not real happy with it.

Yeah, we're not really disagreeing. If my garment and holster and handgun are extremely well-suited for each other, pocket carry has really worked for me.

If things won't work out with what I'm wearing, I've been carrying IWB at four o'clock. My suspenders are fine with that. That's what I did when meeting a friend for coffee earlier today. The guayabera shirt looked nice and no one knew I was armed.

My personal preference is "just right" pocket carry because the ways I do it, it's always a one-handed procedure and it doesn't matter if I'm sitting. I'm a little slower if I'm carrying IWB or OWB and there's a cover garment involved. It can be slow to draw from the waist while seated, also. It's good to have choices.

 

[CDW4ME]

When wearing 2 guns, do you draw w either hand or just strong side?

Cargo shorts & untucked shirt (normal attire) I'll have a Glock AIWB and Sig 365 or PM9 in weak hand pocket.
Having the 2nd gun in pocket affords me the option of putting my hand on it without revealing I'm carrying; having it in weak hand pocket offers fairly quick access to handgun if something happened to my dominant hand.

When I go to the gym I'm wearing gym shorts. I'll have a Glock 26 (with NY trigger) in Smartcarry and a LCP holstered in my dominant hand pocket. When I get to the gym, holstered LCP goes in locked locker and the Glock 26 stays on me. The LCP affords quicker access to/from gym so it is in my dominant hand pocket.

Some may think two handguns overkill, unnecessary especially in a "good area"; they should/could think options instead.

If one is pocket carrying in dominant hand pocket and that is the only gun they have on them, sure it offers quick access if their hand is in their pocket.
Disadvantages to only having a handgun in dominant hand pocket:
Slower to draw when seated vs AIWB.
Slower to draw when hand is someplace other than pocket versus AIWB.
If dominant hand is injured or "unavailable" attempting to draw with weak hand from strong hand pocket is going to be laughably and possibly fatally slow.

If the only handgun one has on them is AIWB or strong side IWB / OWB:
Can't put hand on it without revealing you are carrying, primary reason I've got the 2nd gun in pocket.
If the only handgun you have on you is strong side IWB / OWB and dominant hand is injured or "unavailable" drawing it with weak hand? Envision that.

 

[wayneinFL]

What I'm about to say is very context dependent.

If you're walking down the street with your hand in your pocket people don't generally think about that.

If some crackhead is walking towards you in a gas station parking lot and you put your hand in your pocket....

They're not stupid and you're not their first rodeo.

Criminals calling the cops on normal citizens is a thing. Massad Ayoob has stated that he's seen it happens several times.

It's a good point. I haven't had that happen yet, but I've been made. I've had people walk to the other side of a 4 lane road until they get past me and cross back over. Pretty sure they knew I was carrying.

No, just put the palm of your hand against your belly, and slip your hand down and behind your pants at the belt, the gun is right there.

It helps if you suck your gut in a little as you do it, but either way, its quick and easy.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about what they are and how they work. You really need to try one out to understand them and see just how effective they are.

I never fully mastered one of those. They work okay for me for carry when I'm jogging or at the gym.

Smart Carry was owned by a guy on the West Coast (of Florida). His wife used to make them, so he made sure they worked. He can carry a full size 1911 with one of those with a pair of jeans. And he can get to it really quick.

Cargo shorts & untucked shirt (normal attire) I'll have a Glock AIWB and Sig 365 or PM9 in weak hand pocket.

I do like appendix carry. It didn't work well with what I did for the last 25 years, but if I lose a few pounds and get my hernia fixed, I might try it again.

 

[Rexster]

Base layer: Ex Officio T-shirts and underwear. Worth it, compared to anything cheaper that I have tried.

Shirt: Several decent “fishing” shirts exist. Columbia can be a good place to start looking.

Trousers: Prana Zion II are my current favorite, available in 12” shorts, and several long length choices. Expensive, but I have found nothing quite this wonderfully good, all year ‘round, here on the Texas Coastal Plain. Notably, there is only one “cargo” pocket, and it is not large, but this does not bother me, as I have shifted away from “cargo pants.”

 

[DustyGmt]

In my opinion you haven't found the right holster if there are days you look at your carry rig and even think "do I even want to bother with that today, it's 90° out for crying out loud".

If you find the right holster and mode/position of carry on the first try, I think you are very, very lucky. I had to go through a few types and used to carry a small gun, sometimes still do because I didn't find a truly comfortable IWB and carried a pocket rocket cuz it was better than nothing. Now I can carry a G19 or G43 any day of the week with no hesitation. It used to be a chore.

What I use may very well be irrelevant to you because it may not work for you, but I like the DeSantis IWB like this one. Not sure of model name. It conceals very nicely and is very comfortable even though it certainly doesn't look it. I had it for about a year before I even tried it..... turned out to be just what I needed.

 

[Bennj]

After much research, I was fortunate to find what has worked for me the first time around. I use a Crossbreed MiniTuck (very similar to the DeSantis shown above) for my Shield 45, and either a Remora or Braid's holster IWB with my SW 642. The Crossbreed is no more uncomfortable than my wallet, phone, and keys, the Remora and Braid's even less so. The only negative is when I have to wear a shirt tucked in. But the 642 and Remora in pocket works fine.

 

[drobs]

Youre kind of making my point on it being a limiting way to carry. Yea, if everything has to be "just about perfect" then thats basically all you got. What about everything else?

If youre well practiced at getting the gun going from how you carry it, and everything you wear will allow that to work, then youre likely good to go. But if a simple change of pants, shorts, or something else screws things up, then I know Id be looking for something else, and in fact, that's why I dont carry that way. To many limiting factors for primary carry.

Im not opposed to it for a BUG in some cases, if you have the available pocket space and pockets that will accommodate it, and it still gives access to both hands. Sure with the right guns it can work, but even then, Im still not real happy with it.

Going back to the cargo shorts I linked about, I buy 3 to 4 of em at a time in different colors (Khaki, Brown, & Green). If I grab some of my other shorts and the pocket is too tight, I default to OWB with an untucked shirt.

Depending on where I'm going that day, I might just use my OWB holster with my Pocket Gun (single stack 9mm). If I know I will be heading into the big city, I'll carry a double stack 9mm OWB.

 

[drobs]

What I'm about to say is very context dependent.

If you're walking down the street with your hand in your pocket people don't generally think about that.

If some crackhead is walking towards you in a gas station parking lot and you put your hand in your pocket....

They're not stupid and you're not their first rodeo.

Criminals calling the cops on normal citizens is a thing. Massad Ayoob has stated that he's seen it happens several times.

And that's why I like having open carry legal in my state. If I see a crack head walking towards me, I might decide I want to open carry at that instant. Meaning, I will pull my cover garment back so it's not hiding my OWB holstered firearm.

I have done that twice and had the person or vehicle that was heading my way, change their direction, and go somewhere else.

One of my weekly hobbies is leading 4x4 Trail Rides (Jeep, Toyota, Nissan, etc) in the local National Forest. I will arrive early at the desolate meeting spot to air down my tires and disconnect the sway bars on my Jeep Wrangler. I open carry while I do that.

 

[The Night Rider]

And that's why I like having open carry legal in my state. If I see a crack head walking towards me, I might decide I want to open carry at that instant. Meaning, I will pull my cover garment back so it's not hiding my OWB holstered firearm.

I'm not even going here, this is been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

There are jurisdictions were what you are describing would be menacing. Your intent in exposing your firearm plays a big role.

If I saw you do it I'd be the first one on the phone with the police

 

[drobs]

If I saw you do it I'd be the first one on the phone with the police

Are you the crack head in your scenario?

 

[The Night Rider]

Are you the crack head in your scenario?

No, I'm the other guy that you didn't see at the trailhead.

Again, I'm not debating this with you.

I am so ######g tired of dealing with people on this forum who state or very heavily imply that they expose their firearm with the intent of intimidating somebody and changing their behavior and then claim that wasn't what they were doing they were just exercising their right to Open Carry.

You do you boo.

 

[drobs]

No, I'm the other guy that you didn't see at the trailhead.

Again, I'm not debating this with you.

I am so ######g tired of dealing with people on this forum who state or very heavily imply that they expose their firearm with the intent of intimidating somebody and changing their behavior and then claim that wasn't what they were doing they were just exercising their right to Open Carry.

You do you boo.

So open carry scares you. Noted good luck with that boo boo.