Surplus Powders!

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ArchAngelCD

ArchAngelCD

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Back before 2008 when surplus powders like WC844 and WC846 were available and usually cost less than $9/lb, $59-$69/8lb jug. I was looking at several former sources of surplus powders and was happy to see one actually had WC844 in stock, happy until I looked at the price. They wanted $159.99/8lbs.!!! Why would I pay $160 for WC844 when I can buy H335 for $150 from Powder Valley? They actually want more money for the non-canister powder, really? I guess our lives have been changed forever. I don't think I like this lol.
 
You're seeing new powder prices because it is new powder. They list it as virgin surplus, but it is actually new powder straight from St. Marks. If you're buying in a large enough quantity, the powder is out there. I'm getting ready to open a new keg of 846 that I acquired at about the same time as they acquired the 844. I still have about 12 lbs of 844 so I've passed on it the last two times I've had a chance to get some and I just recently passed on 846T, again new production.

My secondhand understand from people who are big in that part of the business is that the stuff that used to get pulled down and sold as components is now being diverted to the Middle East, therefore the components aren't hitting the market like they used to. Occasionally there is a lot that is so bad that they scrap it out here which is why you are seeing some small lots of components, but nothing like before.
 
Plus you'll have to spend bullets and primers and time with your new lot of surplus powder working up a safe load. Not a bargain anymore and it's be foolish to buy surplus at near prices for commercial. I've loaded surplus powders for .223, 30-06, and 50 BMG. Some lots of 844 were near the speed of H335 with some slower and some faster. You have to work up every time you switch lots of surplus. Same thing for surplus 4895 and 50 bmg 5010 and 860 powder.
 
You're seeing new powder prices because it is new powder. They list it as virgin surplus, but it is actually new powder straight from St. Marks.
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I looked at Powder Valley and did not find any of the WC powders. How do you know the powder is new and not pull down?
 
I highly doubt any powder company produces W844 to sell as new powder. If it is virgin powder and not pull down that doesn't mean it was made to resell. All it means is there was too much of it and it was sold off as surplus. Back in 2008 there was both pull down and never loaded surplus powder available all the time. It was never all pull down.

The powder I saw was on Pat's Reloading Site and not pull down but that never effected the price more than a dollar or two a pound. There is no reason for that powder to cost more than H335, it is still a non-canister powder.
 
It says it is from surplus 2014.

Perhaps the pricing is just that Pats is not as large as Powder Vally or others and can not compete price wise. Heck I do not even see other powders at Pats??

You can not compare prices within one place if they do not offer H335??

Kinda like saying something is cheaper at WalMart compared to Macys :)
 
Advertising is not far from deception, and how did Jack know that the magic beans he got for his Cow would do anything more than get green and moldy when his Mom tossed them out the window?

That was was a fairy tale and anything can happen in a fairy tale. Even Golden Harps and Giants. But let me suggest one should be skeptical if buying surplus powder without a certification sheet or a vendor warranty. How do you know that the surplus powder is new production, and what makes you think the guy who is selling the stuff from really knows what he has? Pig in a Poke applies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke That is also from the Middle Ages.

I am not going to pay full price for something that may or may not be new, and I am not interested in paying full price for something that is going to have to take load development to figure out what it will do. I bought a lot of WC852 and my lot was slow, not suitable for a number of cartridges because it was so slow. It worked well in certain cartridges, but overall, it is not flexible.
 
I have been using surplus Powder for years. without any Problem.. Recently from Jef Bartlets. . It all works well as Described.. going back several Decades all Commercial Powders started Off as surplus. Consider Hodgens original 4831 and IMR 4895 At one time surplus now Mainstream.
. Do your own thinking and be careful .
 
Who said surplus powder is bad?

The reason behind this thread, why would any none canister powder that can be quite a bit faster or slower than the previous lot cost more than a canister powder that is almost the same but more stable in burn rate?

The reason for buying surplus powder and putting up with needing to develop new data for every lot you buy was the low price. If the price advantage is gone I see no reason to buy it unless nothing else is available.
 
Who said surplus powder is bad?
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If the surplus powder is pull down powder, than it is powder that is past its shelf life. Somewhere a Military Ammunition Technician was notified of the failure of the powder Master Sample and went out and examined the lot of ammunition (or propellant) to see if the gunpowder had less than 20% stabilizer left. If it had, that ammunition/propellant was immediately removed from inventory because it was too dangerous to keep in storage.

And then, it was sold to unsuspecting Civilians who were told fairy tales when they inquired why the powder was on the market.

If the surplus powder was new production, something that came from an over run, and that could happen, then the powder is fine in terms of stability. But, being of a non standard burn rate, the owner is going to have to burn a significant amount of it developing loads.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
Who said surplus powder is bad?

The reason behind this thread, why would any none canister powder that can be quite a bit faster or slower than the previous lot cost more than a canister powder that is almost the same but more stable in burn rate?

The reason for buying surplus powder and putting up with needing to develop new data for every lot you buy was the low price. If the price advantage is gone I see no reason to buy it unless nothing else is available.
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Well Arch,

there you have it. Don't buy it.:D

Momma said you better shop around! or there will be days like this or something else witty!
 
Rule3 said:
Well Arch,

there you have it. Don't buy it.:D

Momma said you better shop around! or there will be days like this or something else witty!
Click to expand...
I wasn't going to. Last time I bought WC864 I bought a case(4) of 8lb jugs for a bit over $300 to the house. Boy do I miss those times LOL!!!
 
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