Surplus rifle powder reduction factors

[eldon519]

I'm about to start loading some 7.62x51 rounds for my FAL with WC844, and I see somewhat conflicting advice on the internet. I bought it from Widener's and from what I understand, it is supposed to be similar to Hodgdon H335.

I'm using Lake City Brass, so from what I understand, I need to reduce the powder charge 1.5-2.0gr. I'll probably go 2.0gr to be safe.

Am I then safe to work up from H335 starting data? I see some folks talking about applying another 10% reduction but I'm never clear if they mean 10% from max, 10% from starting(which is already about 10% reduced from max), or 10% as a way to account for the thicker military brass.

 

[medalguy]

I use a lot of this powder, and the problem is that it varies from lot to lot. It's bulk grade not cannister grade. Here's a link to an excellent article on both 844 and 846 powder:

http://www.223reloads.com/home/223-5-56-info/223-5-56-reloading/wc-846-loads

You know that WC844 was finally designed for 5.56 and WC846 might be a better choice for 7.62, although 844 will apparently work in 7.62.

The load data you work up with one given lot may/may not work with another lot. The controversy about brass thickness is internet legend. The fact is it all varies. Commercial can be thicker or thinner than military. Make no assumptions when reloading.

Having said that, I start with 5 rounds at 10% under the minimum load and see how it chronos, then start working up from there. My two lots of 844 have both been very close to published H335 data but that's no reason to think yours will act the same way. Be careful with pulldown powder. It's only as good as your developed load data.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You are correct, WC844 is the none canister grade of H335 and the data is close, but not exact from lot to lot.

You can safely use the starting charge weight for H335 with WC844 and work up to the velocity you're looking to generate. Like said above, every lot of WC844 and the other surplus powders so you will need to work up new loads every time you buy powder with a different lot number. That's why a lot of reloaders who use those powders buy 4X8lb jugs at once, to avoid having to work up new loads all the time.

 

[Danco411]

I have found 844 to work as good if not better than 846 in the .308 with lighter bullets. I like to load the Hornady 150g FMJ-BT with 844 as my low cost plinking load although inside of 300 yards they are as accurate as the 168 HPBT Match bullets. As mentioned the lots vary a bit but usually not by much. I have found the 844 to have more velocity for the exact same charge as H355. So depending on the lot # it can be faster. The last two lots I had were the same on the Chrono for the same charge. I used the last of it up and now have another 32lbs coming from Hi-Tech. My routine with a new lot is start about 4g lower than my previous lot best accuracy load. For example the last lot I was using 45g of 844 in LC cases with the 150g FMJ-BT and a CCI 200 primer. I was getting 2720-2770 spread on the Chrono. So this new lot I'll load 5 at 41, 42, 43, 44, 45 and 46. I'm not looking for a node or perfect group. I want the best group with no pressure signs for my plinkers.

BTW I use nothing but LC brass for my .308 and 5.56 loads. You can get it once fired by the thousands for cheap and it's been very consistent. Swage the crimp once and load up to 10 times. I don't download at all for volume. I'm using Ramshot TAC for my precision loads and am using up to 45g for 168 and 44 for 178 and even 43g for the 208 A-Max. It is VERY good brass.

 

[stavman11]

Love the WC844 I have

Prior to it I tried varget and Xterminator.... Varget had a good Punch to it but a Bugger to measure... so Xterminator was my Favorite

heard a few guys using the WC844 so i tried it.... For the $$$ it is fantastic

I started at 25gr upto 27.2gr found out 26.8-27gr was my sweet spot for my M&P Sport with Hornady 55gr FMJBT and CCI400 Primers... All my Brass is Remington and PMC brass i have shot...

I have 2 lots of the Powder... 16ish lbs and 32lbs... so Once I get it tested I am good for awhile with either Lot...

Also found this Chart... great starting info...

Have Fun....

Stav

 

[hentown]

For loading .223s, I'm using a smidgen more of 844 than I do with H335. I'm using 844, exclusively, now, for .223 reloading, with excellent results. If you're concerned with adding a smidgen of powder, then add .5 smidgen-at-a-time, until you've reached the velocity that you desire.

 

[GLOOB]

You know that WC844 was finally designed for 5.56 and WC846 might be a better choice for 7.62, although 844 will apparently work in 7.62.

From what I've read, 844/H335 came about when manufacturers were having difficulty meeting military specifications for a large contract of 5.56 ammo. They were initially using what is now 846/BLC-2, and they weren't consistently meeting the required velocity (3300fps with a 55gr FMJBT, IIRC) while staying below the required maximum pressure.

844 is very similar to 846. They just figured out what was different between the batches that were meeting the military 5.56 specs, and the ones that weren't, and 844 was born.

So unless you have some hot specs you specifically need to meet, using specific components, you can use either powder for either application and really can't go wrong.

 

[eldon519]

Thanks for all the feedback. I loaded up starting pretty low with 1 grain increments from 37.0 to 41.0 (the published starting load for H335 on Hodgdon for the closest bullet to mine). I'm gonna chrono those and then proceed. I had a few WCC cases mixed in with the LC brass, so I'm comparing those at the same powder charge just to see if there is anything I need to watch out for there pressure-wise. I figure that data ought to give me some baseline to go off of for this lot, and I've got Quickload, so I can proceed a little more confidently towards my goal (I'm shooting Hornady 150gr FMJ-BT and hoping to get around 2700-2750 fps out of my 18" FAL).

I did buy 16lbs of the powder from the same lot which should last me a long time at the rate I shoot high-powered/bottleneck rifles. I've got a .357 carbine that fills in for most 100-yard playtime. I do have a few pounds of canister BL-C(2) around that I may compare sometime, probably around when I run out to see what to replace it with. If I understand what I read about the origins of 844 vs 846, it sounds like the 844 might be a bit cleaner. It looks like I'd use a bit more 846 to get to the same velocity, but I guess I might be able to hit my target velocity with less pressure using 846 which could translate to longer brass life I suppose. Economics is my main concern with these loads and the FAL isn't exactly a match-grade rifle