Surprising damage from a 380.

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Yeah but I also have seen a buddy of mine shoot a lawn mower battery with one and we found 380 bullets laying on the ground around the battery.
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THAT explains the rash of gang bangers wearing lawn mower batteries as medallions.....cheap body armor!!
 
2075 RAMI said:
I understand. I admit that I often overlook certain aspects of the testing, usually just focusing on penetration depth. This would be a byproduct of reading such things as FBI testing protocols for depth. This was where I was going with my above statement. Thanks for bringing all that to my attention.
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:)

Yeah, I sometimes suffer a similar affliction and often tend to think of such testing as some sort of "guarantee" as to what a bullet will do in the human anatomy. It is not.

In order to retain a proper perspective, I have to frequently remind myself that while bullets recovered from calibrated gelatin often resemble those recovered from human bodies, just as often they don't and for that reason, I look at the results of such testing as an "optimistic average".

It's difficult being so excitable. :D
 
Even the lowly .25acp has killed. Doesn't make it a reliable manstopper, however.

I prefer calibers that start with a 4 in my SD handguns.
 
Buffalo Bore loads HP .380's at 1200fps and 288 lbs.. That's not a love tap.

And considering that a human can be killed with one punch it ought to be enough at in your face range.
 
Denigrated for years in this "Age of Big-Bore Manstoppers" the poor .380 struggles along due to being adapted to various good quality pocket-able pistols...but I can assure one and all that the Baby .45 is not a joke.

About 25 years ago, a local hot-tempered son of the south had a young daughter who was strongly attracted to bad boys, and especially the ones in the 19-23 age bracket.

Problem was that she was only 14. Her father had served notice on one particularly thuggish suitor to the effect that he'd kill him if he caught him sniffin' around again. The brave lad apparently hadn't heard of "Joe" and his tendency to do exactly what he said he'd do...and "Joe" caught him outside her window one night at 0-dark-30.

As the story goes..."And he stepped outside." (With a Model 84 Beretta in his hand.)

He riddled the boy from his thighs to his clavicle with .380 ball and called the Sheriff's department. The kid survived...barely...and when he later talked of the night, said that it felt like getting hit with a hammer every time the the gun fired. He also found himself another girlfriend.

"Joe" spent weekends in jail for 3 years over the incident. The girl took daddy's threats seriously after that.
 
1911Tuner said:
Denigrated for years in this "Age of Big-Bore Manstoppers" the poor .380 struggles along due to being adapted to various good quality pocket-able pistols...but I can assure one and all that the Baby .45 is not a joke.

About 25 years ago, a local hot-tempered son of the south had a young daughter who was strongly attracted to bad boys, and especially the ones in the 19-23 age bracket.

Problem was that she was only 14. Her father had served notice on one particularly thuggish suitor to the effect that he'd kill him if he caught him sniffin' around again. The brave lad apparently hadn't heard of "Joe" and his tendency to do exactly what he said he'd do...and "Joe" caught him outside her window one night at 0-dark-30.

As the story goes..."And he stepped outside." (With a Model 84 Beretta in his hand.)

He riddled the boy from his thighs to his clavicle with .380 ball and called the Sheriff's department. The kid survived...barely...and when he later talked of the night, said that it felt like getting hit with a hammer every time the the gun fired. He also found himself another girlfriend.

"Joe" spent weekends in jail for 3 years over the incident. The girl took daddy's threats seriously after that.
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It's funny how just a little disciple can go a long way, isn't it? :D
 
"That said, shot placement is far more important than ... the size of the bullet."

Since when are hits to the abdomen considered good shot placement?
 
"Ever been punched in the gut?"

Apples and oranges comparison.

Are you implying that one should aim for abdomen instead of chest? I'll stick with lungs, heart and lots of arteries.
 
I'm not implying anything, Justin. I just asked if you'd ever been punched in the gut. Tends to be a mite...paralyzing.

Sometimes we don't always have the option of carefully aimed shots. In some situations, taking time to look at the sights could prove to be the last thing we ever do. Sometimes we have to take what we can get.
 
"Sometimes we don't always have the option of carefully aimed shots. In some situations, taking time to look at the sights could prove to be the last thing we ever do. Sometimes we have to take what we can get."

I completely agree. I was just pointing out that the OP does not support the constantly made arguement that caliber and bullet type is unimportant because of "shot placement".
 
I don't think that anybody is arguing that shot placement isn't important, but a well-placed .380 will be more effective than poor placement with a more powerful caliber.

And, the belly is a horrifically painful place to be shot.
 
Zerodefect said:
Luck of the draw, I guess.

Pistols sometimes hardly work, at other times they outperform our expectations. Sometimes even a .45 hardly deos anythng to someone, then there are other times it goes clear through your targets chest and kills an innocent bystander way down the street.

Bullets do weird things and are hardly predictable no matter what the jello says. A while ago a police officer was trying to shoot a birdfeeder, he missed, bullet sailed through a wooded area, and nailed a kid in the head a good distance away. What are the odds of that?
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It's those pesky human bodies, anatomy and all.

There are so many variables that will affect how the round will behave on impact, as it passes through, how it might expand, or not. Was the guy who got shot wearing a shirt? Was he moving? Sounds like the round passed through all soft tissues, no bones. I'd like to see what happens when a 380 hits a ribcage covered with two shirts and a coat.

I think if I saw a gun pointed at me and I was unarmed I would run, zig zag. Very hard to hit. Putting my hand up to deflect the bullet? :scrutiny:

So anyway, what you want is something that you're confident will work in any of the possible variables that might be the case when you have to shoot. For me, 380 aint it.
 
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^^...Which means for the most part you will have to carry a larger and heavier pistol generally.
And speaking of varibles...What pistol??
I have heard that the survival rate is close to 75-80 per cent regardless of handgun used.
So I have to question the overall confidence of caliber that you speak of.
On the other hand just the other day on this site I read a study that most that were shot regardless of caliber used wanted no more of that action and stopped the attack or expired which we all know is a neutral word for dead as a Mackeral.
There truely is a reason why compact .380's are so popular and it simply boils down to size,weight,and concealibility for concealed carry people.
The ammo makers are right behind us constantly trying to improve it's performance.
You can't make a .380 a 45 ACP but then again you cant make the 45 ACP perform like my .308.
Comprimise is the way it's got to be.
 
Admittedly not a powerhouse, the .380 is perfectly capable of ruining your entire day, and even take away all your tomorrows.

It's not a caliber that I'd choose, given my 'druthers...but neither would I be afraid that the bullets would bounce off the chest of a guy who spent the last 15 years pumpin' iron in a prison yard. It's still better than the .25 and the .32 ACP, and the Model 1903 in the latter caliber was John Browning's preferred carry pistol.

The draw of the .380 is that it offers a respectable velocity and bullet size in a highly portable package, given the diminutive pistols today that are chambered for it. Not a lot larger and about the same weight as the tiny .25 caliber Colt "Baby Browning, it can go everywhere without being intrusive or noticed...and as the old saying goes: Any gun beats no gun should the demon choose you on this day."
 
1911Tuner said:
Denigrated for years in this "Age of Big-Bore Manstoppers" the poor .380 struggles along due to being adapted to various good quality pocket-able pistols...but I can assure one and all that the Baby .45 is not a joke.

About 25 years ago, a local hot-tempered son of the south had a young daughter who was strongly attracted to bad boys, and especially the ones in the 19-23 age bracket.

Problem was that she was only 14. Her father had served notice on one particularly thuggish suitor to the effect that he'd kill him if he caught him sniffin' around again. The brave lad apparently hadn't heard of "Joe" and his tendency to do exactly what he said he'd do...and "Joe" caught him outside her window one night at 0-dark-30.

As the story goes..."And he stepped outside." (With a Model 84 Beretta in his hand.)

He riddled the boy from his thighs to his clavicle with .380 ball and called the Sheriff's department. The kid survived...barely...and when he later talked of the night, said that it felt like getting hit with a hammer every time the the gun fired. He also found himself another girlfriend.

"Joe" spent weekends in jail for 3 years over the incident. The girl took daddy's threats seriously after that.
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so, you are saying its a good thing he used a little ol' 380 because the dad would be doing more than weekends in jail had he not?
 
Quite a few people die from shots to the gut..

Ask people who work in the emergency room at hospitals. There are many blood vessels in the human abdominal cavity that lead from the descending aorta downward from the heart that branches to all the major organs within this cavity. Death can occur quickly from a loss of blood from them. They may not die as quickly as a head or heart shot , but many do die before much can be done to save them.
 
Shot placement is a relative thing , it depends on many factors..

that you may not have control over.. One has to take the best shot affordable. One may be on the ground , after being clubbed from behind, etc, etc. The advantage is most often with the attacker.
 
Yep, snooper...not to mention that it just plain hurts like hell. Reports of even people who are whacked out on the street drug of the month react to being gut shot, especially if a piece of the solar plexus is involved. When ya can't take a breath...can't talk...can't scream...and can't do much of anything with your hands except clutch at your belly, it's hard to carry on with a fight. And if it comes as a complete surprise, it doesn't take much of a punch to the SP to literally take your breath away.
 
Too_Pure said:
Putting my hand up to deflect the bullet? :scrutiny:
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It's an involuntary reaction...

When someone is about to clobber us (humans), we (humans) reflexively seek to fend off the blow- our nervous system could care less if it is a fist, a rock or a bullet buzzing along at 900 fps, that hand (and arm) is coming up.


It may have also been that in an effort to avoid being shot by the assailant, the victim was trying to communicate through his actions towards the assailant (hands up) that he (the victim) intended no resistance and therefore posed no threat to the assailant.
 
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