surrealistic debate with former Marine

[ColinthePilot]

This is greatly disturbing. Have anything to substantiate it? I realize that you very well may not, and I accept your opinion at face value. But if there's documentation of this mentality among the leadership of the Corps (or even officers and staff NCOs) somewhere, I would very much like to see it.

It seems to be a military mentality. Life on base, even an Air Force Base, even for Officers, is highly regulated, usually in the "interest of safety." For example, no one may keep their own firearms in their possession on base. They have to be kept in the armory. On my base, the highest speed limit is 25mph, all motorcyclists must wear reflective clothing and be totally covered from head to toe and have a safety course on record. We even have blinking crosswalks. Trying to get regs loosened in the military is like trying to teach a dog to talk. But the regulation breeds the type of attitude that is comfortable with regulation, and decidedly uncomfortable with the lack thereof.

 

[csmkersh]

I have heard that one of the questions on the test they give you for the special forces is something like: "Would you confiscate firearms from American citizens?"

That was the 29 Palms survey done years ago. Google it for more background.

And, IMNSHO, the anti-gun nut being a Marine is immaterial. FWIW, I'm retired Army and pro-RKBA. And I also know the Second DOESN'T convey any rights to the citizens of this country. It places a prohibition on Congress to mess with our pre-existing and unalienable right to bear arms.

​

 

[RPCVYemen]

I have heard that one of the questions on the test they give you for the special forces is something like: "Would you confiscate firearms from American citizens?"

My guess is that the word "order" is in there, more like, "Would you obey a senior officer's order to confiscate weapons from an American citizen?"

The only acceptable answer probably "Yes" - and that strikes me as probably correct. If the order is determined to be un-lawful at a later time, then the weapons can be returned.


Mike

 

[buzz_knox]

My guess is that the word "order" is in there, more like, "Would you obey a senior officer's order to confiscate weapons from an American citizen?"

The only acceptable answer probably "Yes" - and that strikes me as probably correct. If the order is determined to be un-lawful at a later time, then the weapons can be returned.

If memory serves, the question was more along the lines of "Would you fire on American citizens if ordered to carry out gun confiscation?"

 

[siglite]

My guess is that the word "order" is in there, more like, "Would you obey a senior officer's order to confiscate weapons from an American citizen?"

The only acceptable answer probably "Yes" - and that strikes me as probably correct. If the order is determined to be un-lawful at a later time, then the weapons can be returned.


Mike

I took that survey, and it was not worded in such a way to include anything about the second amendment or firearms confiscation. It was worded much more generally. It simply said "would you obey an order to fire on American citizens?"

That may not be exact, but that's damn close according to my recollection.

 

[Sniper X]

I can tell you this, as a prior 18B which was at the time called light weapons speciaist, in the Army for 10 years, I can tell you that 90% of all military members I came in contact with, including Marines, other than of course Recon, Seals or whatever special forces, none knew anything about firearns past their own weapon. And at that, not much more than what they did at the range or durring a conflict or war. In fact, a couple other Special Forces members I knew at Bad Tolz (not 18B) knew not much about weapons other than what they trained with! I was blown away since even before I got into SF I knew a lot about firearms and shooting. Freaks me out when people think that just because someone was in the military they automatically know everythig about guns and politics! How many idiots got chucked out of the service do you knwo who bad mouth the military very voisterously and evevn our country?

 

[ctdonath]

Is the marine part really relevant?

If he has sworn to uphold the Constitution, then it might be good for him to actually understand it.

 

[BullsEye10x]

If he has sworn to uphold the Constitution, then it might be good for him to actually understand it.

True, but today our Military forces only swear to uphold the Constitution AS OUR GOVERNMENT INTERPRETS IT. Why? Because that's where their orders come from.

I have been a gun/shooting enthusiast most of my life; long before I became a Marine. Once I got to the fleet, I volunteered for every range or weapons detail I could. Even got selected to become a Marksmanship Instructor as a secondary MOS. Most of the troops I coached on M16 or M9 were pretty good shots, or at least they were after I got done with 'em However, very few were overly excited about firearms in general. As others have said, military life isn't all about guns. All the routines, regulations, and isolation from the real world make it difficult to enjoy a lot of hobbies. God bless anyone who has served honorably, but don't expect them all to have the same levels of patriotism.

 

[James T Thomas]

Who is in uniform?

Please keep retrospect; right here on THR are a hand full of "wana bees," and the person you conversed with may or may not be retired military.
Close shaven head and jutting jaw or not.

Consider this.
Senator John McCain, presidential candidate; signed off on the Kennedy -McCain bill for amnesty for millions of illegal aliens within the United States of America. And he wore a uniform at one time and was even a prisoner of war!
Then too there are the current "General this and General that" whose endorsements of Hiliary Clinton you may hear or read of.

There is no screening of the mind set of the volunteer military, and the same people who walk the streets of the USA having eyes but cannot see and ears but cannot hear are within the military branches just the same.

Incidental note: I served with the 82nd Airborne Division during the civil riots that occured in 1968. Congress was fearfull of it's own people, and the National Guard that was called out was not enough to protect those who govern us, so here comes the US military. I went into Washington, DC, and from my perspective, the US Army was not required there. But none the less we were called out to serve -the politicians.
The rioting, looting and anarchy was a police matter and should have been controlled as such.

Some US soldiers will protect our Constitutional rights with integrity, but the military as a whole will obey the Commander in Chief as they swear to.

Now I wonder, just how does the current oath of office go for our young men and women? What are they forswearing to -and what has been omitted?

 

[buzz_knox]

A quick search shows this may be the question at issue.


46. The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-approved firearms. A 30-day amnesty period is established for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of irregular citizen groups and defiant individuals refuse to turn over their firearms to authority. Consider the following statement: [SD D A SA NO]


"I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the United States government."

 

[siglite]

Again, I took that survey. It did not read as presented in post 36.

 

[buzz_knox]

Again, I took that survey. It did not read as presented in post 36.

That's the only thing that I've found. It could easily be a modified version of the original.

 

[Ithaca37]

The Marines are not friends of America or Liberty.

This is true of all branches of the military. The military is an agent of the government, and while not necessarily your enemy, the gov is not your friend. Read what some of the founders thought of standing armies.

That said, the individuals who are members may or may not be of good character and intentions.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

I was a jarhead so I'll say this as his "excuse".

If he was enlisted then his only real function was to go to war and combat the enemy. The Corps did not seem to desire having enlisted men thinking without close officer supervision. Kill your enemy and don't get killed while doing it is pretty much all you need to know.

On the other hand, if he was an officer........well, officers are lost causes all on their own.

My grandfather, WWII paratrooper, never shot a gun after the war. He had the opinion that guns cause useless death.

I never thought about it but I guess that's why my dad stopped throwing grenades when he got back from Vietnam.

 

[siglite]

well, officers are lost causes all on their own.

 

[Caleb Longstreet]

Ahhhh....don't sweat it....I spent 4 years in the Marines (77-81) and have yet to wear it like a badge....it's something I did a long time ago and probably for some different reasons.....I'm proud of the military to be sure and wish all that serve the absolute very best but for the most part, my reality was somewhat of a bore...

Carter was President, everything was run down, worn out and not many in the military or the public cared...period.....I had an air wing MOS (5956 MATCU) and spent most of my evenings protecting America from "bad beer"....mostly cans.....

The good news is that I was stationed at K-Bay (Kaneohe MCAS Hawaii) and learned the fine art of scuba diving (tank fills were 50 cents on base in 1979) and the new thing called, the boogie board.....

I do, however, remember field days....EVERY Thursday, first the unit, then your room....12 hours of non-stop janitorial duty excitement....

Believe me my friend....not ALL of us were Sgt. Carters, most of us were Gomer Pyles....

You would have to had seen it in 77-81 to believe it....America had about as much yearning for the military as they do for higher taxes today.....just a very, very different world back then.....

Not all 20 year guys have that much to say....the ones who do, probably don't care to share it all that much....

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Some of us oldsters (note - I said US) need to remember that, unlike in previous generations, many times a new recruit's first exposure to a ANY sort of firearm...is from his firing range instructor. These young men didn't grow-up hunting & shooting in the company of skilled men who knew & loved guns. It makes a BIG difference. Sad but true.

 

[ColinthePilot]

well, officers are lost causes all on their own.

Wow, I'm glad as an aviator I won't have any enlisted folks to hate me for at least a few years. And I'm not a totally lost cause. I've read the constitution, I know what I'm defending, and I've brought some fellow CGO's over to the gun-owning shooter side of the force.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

Any enlisted man who ever saw a butterbar TRY to chew out a Gunny, Top, or, God help him, a Sgt. Maj. knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[ColinthePilot]

Any enlisted man who ever saw a butterbar TRY to chew out a Gunny, Top, or, God help him, a Sgt. Maj. knows exactly what I'm talking about.

I wouldn't dream of it. A lot of my fellow ell tees will actively avoid senior enlisted folks outdoors because they don't feel they deserve being saluted by a person who's been in the military longer than we've been alive.

This is going OT real quick, I just don't know how to get it back on track.

 

[romma]

To get it sort of back on topic, I will pass the info over to the Retired Marine with regards to the Vermont Concealed carry laws,,, of lack of them I should say.

Maybe that will lend some credibillity to my character in his eyes. Who knows, maybe he will come to the range with me.

 

[siglite]

Heehee....

Now that I'm out, giving occifers a hard time is NEVER off topic

 

[lonegunman]

My company hired a loser Marine

to run their MIS department. The FIRST thing the loser Marine did was block access to anything remotely weapons related from our office computers. I was one of many who complained and he tries to portray us as people who are likely to become violent in the workplace.

Next thing you know, upper management was spouting that his magical marine training gave him the ability to decide who could look at guns on the internet. He is always spouting on how being a marine corps drop-out gives him makes his view more right than the rest of us.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

BerettaShotgun wrote:

My favorite thing I ever said to her was about my job.
" I'm in the business of making sure Americans can KILL the people who don't bow down to our threats"
I thought she was gonna have conniption on the spot.
Good times......

That, sir, is a vile statement. Did you translate it from Latin? Because it sounds like it could easily have been uttered by Nero himself. A little before the collapse of that disgusting and corrupt empire.

"Our" threats? Who are you talking about? Do you consider yourself a mere cell in the body politic of the U.S. government? I don't make any threats. The U.S. government does. I don't have any troops. The U.S. government does. The individuals who comprise the U.S. government do not speak for me; nor do they speak for millions of other sane people.

I've seen the bumper stickers that say "Nuke their [posteriors] and take the gas." I have little doubt that those sadistic maniacs would actually press the launch key, if given the opportunity. What a pity. Americans used to be the last bastion of morality in a twisted world. Alas, so were the Romans.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[lacoochee]

"Our" threats? Who are you talking about? Do you consider yourself a mere cell in the body politic of the U.S. government? I don't make any threats. The U.S. government does. I don't have any troops. The U.S. government does. The individuals who comprise the U.S. government do not speak for me; nor do they speak for millions of other sane people.

Funny, you live in a representative democracy so in fact actually the government does speak for you. I did not like it when Clinton was the President, but he was still our President. I never thought of him as someone else's president as if he were from strange blue nation North of the Mason-Dixon line.

Granted the wording in his statement could have been a little better, it might have been better this way.

"I kill those who ignore the the promise of the United States government that they will be punished if they harm one of our own."

Maybe that way is better for you.