SW 1911 opinions

[45R]

I'm thinking about giving the ole' 1911 a try again after owning a MIMber. The MIMber really left a bad taste in my mouth for 1911s but I'm willing to give it a try again. SA and SW are on my list for 1911s. IIRC S&W made frames for Kimber?

What is the general concencous of the SW1911. Does it use any MIM parts? I want something reliable and accurate out of the box. The old Custom II lived up to accurate but it was never all that reliable even after Grandmaster Gunny Bruce Gray worked on it. (I guess when you polish a turd...its still a turd)

Also is there a way to get rid of that hidious giantic SW1911 rollmark on the SS slides. If not I may just go black.

 

[cbsbyte]

Also is there a way to get rid of that hidious giantic SW1911 rollmark on the SS slides. If not I may just go black.

The roll marks were done away two years ago. Look at Smith & Wesson' site for current models. Do a search on this site and you will find some info on these 1911s.

 

[Black Majik]

Nelson,

From what I'm hearing they're good guns. I've not yet shot one, but I do want to. Two things from what I've noticed and read (mainly from 1911forum).

1) Messy crown jobs on barrel. S&W will clean it up if asked to

2) Noticeable gap between bottom of rear sight and slide. This I noticed myself, and it was on both the scandium and stainless S&W1911s I looked at. This was from personal inspection of the pistols.

Cosmetic, yes... but an eyesore. Otherwise, fit and finish was great on the scandiums. Oddly enough, I don't really like the stainless versions, I thought the black controls detracted from the look. Again, only cosmetic.

Since I know you like nice pistols, and you're looking at 1911s, look into a Les Baer TRS

 

[Ala Dan]

My S&W 5" basic stainless 1911; without the "billboard ad", and the flaws
that my friend Richard described in his above post~!

Plus, the fact that it will shoot right along side of my Les Baer TRS
at a fraction of the cost.

 

[longeyes]

My S&W 1911PD Scandium Commander is the most accurate handgun I own, along with my Kimber Custom II. A few bobbles the first day out but since--I've fired about 960 rounds to date--unflappable. If I weren't in California this would certainly be one of my primary carry pistols. I think S&W has done a good job with these guns. I can't comment on the parts used.

 

[SHOOT1SAM]

I can't comment on the parts used either, but I absolutely love my basic stainless version. It's the most accurate, straight-out-of-the-box pistol I have ever shot.

Sam

 

[PaulDaisy]

I like the looks of them. But I found that I shoot a bit thicker handled Rugers better than the slim 1911 or Glocks that seem to have the wrong pointing angle for me. The only way to see is to shoot one. Maybe you can do that at the range?
-P

 

[Frandy]

800 flawless rounds in my Smith "bottom-feeder" 1911. Not as accurate as my Dan Wesson Patriot, but that's a different animal. I like my Smith just fine.

 

[ipscshooter]

I'm thinking about giving the ole' 1911 a try again after owning a MIMber.

Now that's funny.

 

[Spartacus451]

When they work they are great. When they don't they suck. I have one that has been back 5 times. Another has been back once and needs to go back again. Full auto, breaking barrel link pins, failures to extract. I just trade one problem for another between my 3 S&W 1911s.

Problems also include crooked front strap serrations on every one produced. Loose triggers with quite a bit of vertical play. Out of time firing pin safeties. The rear sight on the target model is INCREDIBLY sharp. I have several scars from cutting myself while drawing. Several have gone out with grip safeties that allow the hammer to drop without the safety being depressed.

Warranty is fantastic. They will pay for shipping both ways no questions asked. They won't fix it. If they knew how they would have built it right the first time...

Despite it all they are no worse then any of the other major players. At least they pay shipping and will eventually pay for the gun.

 

[targatop]

I love my SW1911 DK

I got the 1911 DK model, and it is by far the most accurate and reliable non-revolver I own. It's a good looking gun, check it out here.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/dealer/pistol/MSW1911DK_SW108287.jpg


I love the flat trigger - although it took some getting used to - and I am able to shoot accurate grouping with this gun in a rapid succession. The rosewood grips look great, and it has been dead on right from the box. I really dig adjustable sites so you can zero in on the load you shoot - but with this gun I haven't had to adjust a thing (unlike my S&W 329 Revolver which shoots low until the sites were adjusted).

I look at the 1911 offerings everytime I'm at the range, and I always think I made the right choice with this one.

My only change will probably be night-sights.

 

[D-Man]

Another happy S&W 1911 customer here:



I'm not an expert by any means, but from what you read about on various gun forums, it seems like S&W has done a great job with their 1911. While there are problems at times (like any gun manufacturer), S&W is said to have the best customer service in the business. Adweisbe - I have heard of a few similar bad apples like yours, and hope you get yours running like it should.

As far as removing the logo, I have seen an example on a 1911 forum site where all the stuff had been removed, which looked really nice. But that isn't going to come cheap. While I am not the biggest fan with the writing on mine (would prefer it to be stamped instead), I can live with it.

Frandy - awesome picture!

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

After driving 35 miles to the UPS "hub" and shelling out $50 or $60 for the shipping with other guns, I would consider one just for the service and warranty.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's adweisbe My Friend-

So sorry too learn of your bad experience with the S&W 1911's; and really
hope that you get those issues resolved to YOUR satisfaction~! Truely, I
think that S&W has done a remarkable job with their 1911 line; especially
with all the bad publicity surrounding the infamous Kimber 1911 external
extractors. Too be quite honest, I own one of both makes; and both of
them have run fine, right out of the box. I hope that your S&W's are up
and running in short order; and that they give you many hours of great
satisfaction~!

 

[Spartacus451]

S&W customer services rocks! I got back the gun that has been returned 5 times today. They replaced the mag that the gun had damaged (Wilson) with two free Wilson mags! I don't know if it is fixed, I will test when I get home.

Other companies would turn and blame me for the gun not working and refuse to even attempt to fix the problem. They would fight tooth and nail to avoid paying shipping to even look at the gun. This is the reason I still buy S&W and won't even consider certain other manufacturers.

Like I said. When a S&W 1911 runs it is great. I do have one that runs... I had one that runs but sold it to buy one that doesn't run... I do know that plenty of the ones I have seen have had show stoppers. The firing pin safety issue has shown up twice in other peoples guns. I do see a large number of S&W 1911s because I live in MA and it is one of the few high quality 1911s out there. The only other option I would consider here is SVI.

 

[fastbolt]

Remember that S&W moved the SW1911 production from their Performance Center to their regular production line after the line was introduced. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a period when the learning curve had to take place once the production was moved to the factory's regular production line.

I only know one fellow who had to have his SW1911 replaced under warranty, and he had one of the very early SW1911PD Commander-size Scandium guns. Apparently his frame required replacement because of a machining issue. S&W cheerfully replaced the gun without any fuss and the replacement has provided him fine service.

I bought a SW1911SC of my own after handling and shooting several models of different production dates, including a stainless one produced in the first 5,000 made. Mine has been fine.

The original Novak sights were a bit oddly-sized in appearance to the slide because a rear sight was used from another production gun which gave the desired POA/POI in the SW1911's but which had originally been made for a different size slide/caliber. That's what I was told, anyway.

S&W does use some MIM parts, but they own the molds used, and S&W has always invested heavily in obtaining the best MIM molds possible.

They started making their own barrels for the SW1911 series at their in-house forging facility.

Last I heard they still use vendor-supplied hammers & sears from a major company.

The firing pin safety plunger lever's timing is done differently than in other guns equipped with safety plungers. Simple, but different.

Their extractors are of the same pivoting design used so successfully in their other models for so many years. They may require fitting to an individual slide, which is done in the same manner as in their traditional models, and which requires the use of a bar gage to check extractor fitment and a force dial gage to check extractor spring tension.

S&W has increased their investment in both money and production equipment for the SW1911 line, and I was told they had reduced their use of vendor supplied parts as the line has developed.

I really like mine, and would consider buying another one.

 

[Spartacus451]

The firing pin safety plunger lever's timing is done differently than in other guns equipped with safety plungers. Simple, but different.

Still comes out of time. I have seen it twice.

Their extractors are of the same pivoting design used so successfully in their other models for so many years. They may require fitting to an individual slide, which is done in the same manner as in their traditional models, and which requires the use of a bar gage to check extractor fitment and a force dial gage to check extractor spring tension.

To high and not wide enough. On some guns the extractor loses control of the fired case when the barrel links down. The tell tale sign is that the gun cannot eject without a magazine in the gun. This is because the case is only kept from sliding down the breech face by the magazine feed lips. Two out of four S&W 1911s I have owned have had this problem. One is waiting to go back and one I just got back and have not been able to test yet as I just picked it up before work.

I agree with everything else you say, but the extractor and the FPS are two critical flaws because both of them are not readily evident. The FPS can work out of time for a while until peening causes light strikes/no strikes. The gun can extract reliably for hundreds of rounds and then jam up with the head of a case stuck in the feed lips because of the extractor issue. I cannot begin to fathom why they went with that weak design when they have a different design for the PC models...

I know one S&W 1911 that went 28,000 rounds in a year with zero issues. Boy do I wish I owned it.

I noticed someone mentioned the crown earlier. The one I bought recently didn't seem to have the crown issue. They shoot accurately despite the lack of a proper crown.

 

[tegemu]

I have a Bobtailed Scandium Commander and it's my favorite of 6 1911's.

 

[Onmilo]

Mine is one of the first two thousand S&W 1911s to hit the market.
I have extensively rebuilt the pistol and replaced the MiM parts with Ed Brown tool steel components.
The barrel was made by Briley, is factory original, and never had a crown issue though I have seen some of the S&W produced barrels that are pretty crude.
If you are looking for a decent 1911 you could do far worse than one of these pistols.

 

[Sundles]

I own a S&W 1911PD scandium and it is a remarkable pistol for only $850.00.

It has never failed to operate in any way with any ammo in almost 1000 rounds. It is also quite accurate with every load I've tried. I'm completely satisfied with this pistol and if I needed another one, would not hesitate to buy another one.

 

[ipscshooter]

To high and not wide enough. On some guns the extractor loses control of the fired case when the barrel links down. The tell tale sign is that the gun cannot eject without a magazine in the gun. This is because the case is only kept from sliding down the breech face by the magazine feed lips.

I'm not a pistol-smith, and I may have missed something, but isn't this more of an issue of not enough extractor tension? None of my 1911's will let a case slide down the breech face.

 

[XavierBreath]

I actually own three SW1911s. I purchased the first two used, a SW1911 Target and a SW1911 with laser grips, in a deal too good to refuse. I figured I would trade them off for Colt 1911s on down the line. I shot them in the meantime, and decided to keep them. Read the range reports here and here.

When a SW1911PD became available locally at a good used price, I bought it too. You can read it's range report here.

As far as I'm concerned, they are an excellent value in a 1911, and often undervalued at the gun counter. Mine have been more accurate than I can live up too, dead reliable, and durable. They do contain some MIM, which S&W manufactures themselves. For me, in these pistols, it is not an issue. Cheap MIM is cheap MIM. Well made MIM is not an issue. I have seen parts break that were MIM, and parts break that were cast. I have also seen cracks in forged steel. It's the quality of the manufacturing that makes the difference, not the process itself, IMHO. S&W makes good MIM.

I would like the grip safeties to be fitted to the frame a bit better, I don't like the gap. The gap underneath the rear sight kind of bothers me as well, but these cosmetic issues are far outweighed by the reliability of the guns. The extenal extractor is not an issue for me.

Here is my SW1911PD.

 

[Spartacus451]

I'm not a pistol-smith, and I may have missed something, but isn't this more of an issue of not enough extractor tension? None of my 1911's will let a case slide down the breech face.

Tension isn't the issue. It has adequate tension when the case isn't slid down from the extractor when the barrel links down. S&W fixes this issue by replacing the barrel. Tension in general is never an issue with exterrnal extractors as they rely on springs which don't really malfunction or wear (in the course of normal usage).

No matter how much tension the extractor has the case will still move down with the barrel as it links down. If the extractor can't maintain tension in the linked down position then it will lose control. On the S&W this occurs because it is too high and not wide enough. It was important enough to them that the PC1911s use a different extractor.

 

[wheel]

Quote:
The firing pin safety plunger lever's timing is done differently than in other guns equipped with safety plungers. Simple, but different.
Still comes out of time. I have seen it twice.

The firing pin safety indeed is very simple. The grip safety pushes a cam which pushes the firing pin plunger. Don't see how that can get out of sync over time. Seems it either works or it doesn't - nothing much to wear out.

Can you explain what caused it to fail in your case?