SWAT and the 11 year old from the AP

[Mark Whiteman]

If I were a judge I would be extremely irritated at being put in the position of being a buttmunch....

 

[BridgeWalker]

My family has been the victim of some random person deciding we were putting our child at risk. I'm glad that person didn't know about our guns, or we could've been in for an interesting time. As it is, it was merely humiliating, costly, and humiliating. Did I mention humiliating? It was humiliating.

Yeah, I should probably stay away from threads where CPS actions are discussed, in conjunction with SWAT teams or otherwise.

My sympathies are with the family. Freedom has a cost. Part of that cost is that the government doesn't get into my house whenever my neighbor decides they do, even if my neighbor cooks up some sort of reason that passes as credible.

 

[flag2442]

Unfortunately even if someone does get sued they will be protected under "Good Faith" and most likely nothing will happen to anyone. They will come to the conclusion that based on the information available at the time it was the right decision.

In AZ cps removes children all the time from homes based on 3rd party annonymous reports with no supportive evidence. They don't even have to get a court order and they have a form they fill out to give the parent or guardian and it is enforcecible. I get called to "assist other agency" and am always amazed that they just hand the kids over.

If they refused to answer the door I dont think we would be kickin doors in especially regarding an old injury without a court order but what I read above does not surprise me at all although I disagree with how it was handled.

Nothing seems to surprise me any more. Everyone does whatever they want because they are terrified they will be sued for doing nothing and if they do it they are always protected because it was done in good faith. That is why law enforcement does 90% of what they do any more. It started with dv victims sueing police departments for "failure to protect". It will get worse before it gets better.

I hope CPS never comes knocking on my door, I may not be so indifferent.

flag2442

 

[jakemccoy]

jaholder wrote:

OH MY GOD!

Their SWAT training didn't lead to this operation, it was a nutjob who taunted civil authority with violence if they sought a court order. We can argue all day whether the order was proper or not, but you don't tell them to bring an army and expect them to show up with flowers and chocolate.

Some of you people need to get a grip and realize that sometimes law enforcement has to deal unkindly with people who defy the law.

Hi jaholder,

You need to get a grip if you can't see the pink elephant in the room. The SWAT team shouldn't have had anything to do with this.

A SWAT team is the best of the best. They're highly intelligent. They're physical specimens. They're no joke. Meanwhile, there's plenty of real crime in the real world. There are real drug busts to be had. There are real bomb threats. There are real mass shooters who have hostages. To think that tax dollars were used to train this SWAT team to handle this preschool matter is nauseating.



You can blame it on the judge, the police chief or whoever. At some point, as a man, you have to decide if you want to continue to take orders from people who are beneath you. Law enforcement officers are civilians, not military. If I were on this SWAT team, this raid would be grounds for me to hand in my resignation and go somewhere where my capabilities were appropriately put to use.

Your video game approach to various issues on this site is scary. I hope you don't have a job of any kind of real power.

Sincerely,
Jake McCoy

 

[jakemccoy]

flag wrote:

Everyone does whatever they want because they are terrified they will be sued for doing nothing and if they do it they are always protected because it was done in good faith. That is why law enforcement does 90% of what they do any more. It started with dv victims sueing police departments for "failure to protect". It will get worse before it gets better.

flag,

According to the Supreme Court, local police have no legal duty to protect an individual. See my sig line and the case discussion.

-Jake

 

[flag2442]

Jake,

I have never read that information and it was interesting but that is not what is taught to LEO's and law enforcement agencies.

Cases have been won in the past and they were cited during training I attended approx 11+ years ago. I believe they were from the 70's if I recall and were all related to DV and that is why most DV laws are written the way they are now and it has since become how law enforcement reacts to virtually everything. I do not know if those cases were upheld by higher courts.

Just type in "failure to protect" and see what you get.

flag2442

 

[flag2442]

Jake,

Here are some,

http://www.ohiodvresources.org/attinfo/casesumm/viewcat.php?cat=1&subcat=24

Sorry don't know how to make it hot.

flag2442

 

[Waywatcher]

Whats next?

Swat teams to tell kids to eat their veggies?

 

[littlegator]

Some of you people need to get a grip and realize that sometimes law enforcement has to deal unkindly with people who defy the law.

I'm confused...how did he break the law in this circumstance?

And Jake - aren't those the guys that advertise Extreme Shock Ammo?

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

OH MY GOD!

Their SWAT training didn't lead to this operation, it was a nutjob who taunted civil authority with violence if they sought a court order. We can argue all day whether the order was proper or not, but you don't tell them to bring an army and expect them to show up with flowers and chocolate.

Some of you people need to get a grip and realize that sometimes law enforcement has to deal unkindly with people who defy the law.

Somehow, I have a hard time believing that the father even told the sheriff to "bring an army" in the context of, "you better bring SWAT guys with APCs and tanks and tear gas and a video of Waco so you'll know how to get 'er done."

Based on my firsthand experience with the bimbos at CPS offices all across the country (when we made narcotics arrests, we had to turn the kids of the dealers who were in the house/car/property over to CPS), when the father declined "formal medical attention," the head CPS power-monger probably told him that he had no choice in the matter and that if he DIDN'T (agree to medical visit), she'd by-God have his kid taken from him and driven to a doctor.

Then, he might've said, "Well, you better bring an army."

You do not send SWAT teams out on these kind of situations. You just don't. Where's the evidence that he was holding his family hostage? That he was armed? That he had a documented violent past? That he was an escaped prisoner? That he had a bomb? That he'd kidnapped someone and holded up in his house? (Or that he was a Branch Davidian?)

When this nation's so-called law enforcement "professionals" reach the point to deploying in SWAT regalia for every domestic disturbance or neighborly pissing match, we will have become little different from most former East Bloc nations we held in high contempt.

Don't know about you, but I have served in countries where soldier patrolled the streets and stood on street corners and patrolled the airports and major shopping venues. It is NOT a good feeling.

And I'll be damned if I go along with that mentality or anyone who supports it--because if flat spits all over our Constitution.

As far as SWAT guys "just taking orders," they could have assessed the situation and then refused, stating that their orders were Unconstitutional or in other wise direct conflict with the laws and ethics of their municipality.

But hell no, it's more fun to dress like a ninja in your black pajamas, play with military type guns and go kicking in a trailerhouse door and scaring the crap out of an innocent family.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me ashamed that I was ever a cop.

Jeff

 

[Mark Whiteman]

Having known a few guys on such teams (they pull members from the street, after all), I know for a fact that at least here, most would not be bashful about telling a superior to stuff a mission up his **** if it was suspected to be anything but above-board fully-legal. Those guys in well-trained teams know by what their authority is derived, and more than a few are on boards such as this.

That said, there are many small outfits that are not so well-trained, taking on jobs they probably should not.

 

[gunsmith]

I....just...can't....help...myself!

darn! ...nevermind!

 

[Mark Whiteman]

Don't anyone get me wrong. I worked around police and firefighters most of my adult life, so I understand how and why they do what they do.

I still do not trust anyone representing the government any farther than I can throw them, which post-op sure isn't very far.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Are We On-Topic Yet?

No?

Ah, well then.

I guess you know what this means.

In . . . 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . .