Swedish mauser...Is it me or is it anecdotal?

[MutinousDoug]

@MutinousDoug gotcha! I appreciate that. I ended up devcon bedding the receiver and free floating the barrel. I tried removing some wood from the upper handguard to avoid contact with the barrel but ended up ditching it altogether to try to remove it from the equation. I've thought about getting another stock and bedding it all the way down to see what that does for the accuracy but haven't had the money or ambition as I've been working on other projects. (Finished building an m16 a2 and refurbishing an old eddystone 1917 - really proud of that one. Little brother really helped out on that one!!!)

I havent gone up past 41 gr with the H4350 (I dont know how H4350 compares to IMR4350) - Hornady manual says that's starting to get into unsafe pressures. Older speer manual has it up to 43.2 gr but I tend to find Speer to be a little hot for my liking. Would you be willing to reveal your preferred load with the 4831 with the 140 grainers?

@JohnKSa I don't suppose you have a measurement on that bore for a reference?

I've loaded and shot 210 rounds of IMR4831 mostly with 140 gr Hornady interlocks (and enough Noslers to prove zero) using Hornady book 45 gr since 2002. I've shot some fantastic 2"-3" 3 and 5 shot groups at 200yds and once shot another, scoped, prone 3" 10 shot group at a match in 2018 but that's not what I expect off a bench, or any where else looking forward.

 

[mjsdwash]

I would say most shooter fire a bunch of three shot groups, then take the best one out and claim their rifle shoots that all the time. They want their rifle to be accurate and they shoot enough targets that through statistical randomness they finally get the desired group. This is the texas sharpshooter fallacy.

View attachment 1101003

I'll take it a step further and say this...
Shoot a 100 yard target (or 33.3 yard target) 40 times, and measure the closest three holes of the 15 or so that hit the paper, and call that the "group".

I agree with you, they didn't make 5K 1MOA Garands with M2 ball in the entire run, but supposedly they all ended up in the hands of guys who can shoot 100 yards iron sights? Yea... Must be true, the guy who has his own stool at the gunshop says so.

I shot one almost MOA group in my life, and it was in load development, only 3 rounds. 1.047", 100 yards, M16A2 iron sights. Rested on sandbags. Load was 25.3gr H335, 55grn varmint nighmare from Midsouth. Federal SRP, mixed brass, Heavy crip.

I'm confident I'll never shoot another 100 yard Iron sight group under 3" again. But according to the internet, I need more practice, and for them that's just "all day every day".... except the day you want to see it.

 

[Cliff Roberts]

@mjsdwash and @Slamfire I'd be willing to agree with that sentiment! Lotta 1-minute micky's shootin 12 point bucks and catching 30" bass lol

Most moa shooting I do is from a sturdy lead sled. I got 2 rifles I shoot when I want a confidence booster: a 1974 sharps (my worst group with that rifle has been 1.3 moa - love that gun) and a Greek naval 6.5 mannlicher Schoener sporter.

 

[Slamfire]

The 6.5 Swede is capable of target accuracy in a target barrel. It is a great cartridge.

I took this featherweight out, after free floating the barrel and bedding the action. It shot poorly till then



it liked IMR 4831



it really liked Sierra Match Kings



and puked on Core Lokt's




had to bed this action and free float the barrel




it also loved Sierra Match Kings



core lokt's were not bad at 300 yards



Hornady's shot well for a hunting bullet



In a target rifle, I am sure the groups would be half, these featherweight rifles are twitchy and hard to shoot consistently.

 

[czhen]

Removed.

 

[Cliff Roberts]

So... this thread has been dead for a while. I took some time to work on some other projects - set these rifles aside and forget about them for a while while focusing on some other builds.

Browsing Gun Parts Corp for some parts for the Turkish Mauser, I looked to see if they had some barrels for the 96 and the 38. While they didn't have any step barrels, they had some sporter barrels. I decided to buy them and try them out.

After looking them over, they seemed a little rough so I gave them a couple dozen good passes with the JB Bore compound and then slugged them. The tightest measured in at .2637 and the other was .2644. I threw them both on the lathe and cut in the first few steps so that they fit the stocks and upper handguards naturally. The barrel tapered too much to cut the last couple of steps so it still looks a little wonky but good enough for my needs.

I had considered drilling and tapping the receiver of the Carl Gustav for a scope as a front sight on that barrel would be sketchy but, as it's still mostly unmolested, I decided to just align and solder the rear sight base and reattach the scope mount that was on there originally.

When I cut the steps in the barrel, I must not have realigned my tailstock properly as I ended up getting a thou taper across 8 or so inches so the base wasn't as snug as I'd hoped but it soldered up straight so I'm fairly pleased with it.

Both rifles had the lugs lapped again and I took about a thou off the front of the receivers on both just to make sure that the barrel and receiver mated well. Haven't blued either of them yet - was too anxious to try them out first. I'll decide on a cold blue or a rust blue later. For now, I just want to shoot them!

Took them both out to the property today with less ammo than I realistically would have liked but I wanted to get some break-in shots in them before giving them another run with some lapping compound. I'm not a big "barrel break-in" guy but I figured I'd try my best.

The groups with the PPU were, for lack of a better term, pitiful at 100 yds. I don't think either gun shot inside 5 inches with a few patchs run between shots (5 shots each rifle with the exception of one dud in the Husqvarna - bad primer). I wasn't particularly hopeful after that but figured it's probably just the break-in. The S&B did a little better on both but not great (5 shots apiece with a patch or two between shots). Lastly, I tried some reloads using 140gr Sierras and some H4350. These seemed to do the best coming in at about a 2" major spread (5 shots each with no swabbing between shots). Beats the hell out of the groups that I was getting before but I'm still going to need to do some testing. Hopefully they get better as they break in more.

Loaded up 50 more rounds with a mix of 140gr Sierras and some 140 gr Speer grand slams and dropped the powder charge 1.2 gr. Think the next time I go out, I'll run 50 rds through the DMR, load back up, and go back out with the Scout for another 50. After that, I'll see if I can work up a half decent load with the 160gr Hornady bullets as they're the most readily accessible in my neck of the woods. With any luck, I'll report back with some pictures of relatively decent groups! If not, I may have to dissappear in shame for a while! Fingers crossed, boys and girls!


Barrels straight from Numrich


Steps cut on the new barrel (right) to match the original barrel (left)


Parts ready for soldering


The Husqvarna 38


The Carl Gustav 96 - yes... I am disappointed the previous owner cut down the stock. Might replace it in the future


The rear sight soldered onto the rifle

 

[Snidely70431]

A military rifle was designed for shooting PEOPLE, not targets. People who are likely shooting back, which can be a distraction.The human head is about 5" x 9", the human torso much larger. If you are going to shoot targets, use a target rifle. To me, it is unrealistic to expect a military rifle to perform in ways for which it was never designed.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Those skinny barrels could probably do with a little preload at the end of stock.

 

[eastbank]

i have had good luck(close to 3 shot i inch groups) with n-560 in my 6.5x55,s and rem .260 rifles. four shot group(100 yards) from my rem 700 in .260 with 24" barrel with a 1x8 twist and 140 gr sierra game king with 46 grs n-560. the rem rifle was bought from bud,s and straight stock.

 

[Cliff Roberts]

Well, decided to have some fun today and take out the scout, a couple AKs, and the mini-14. Ran about 50 rounds through the scout swede - 25 rds with 140gr grand slams and 25 with 140gr Sierras. The grand slams were definitely the black sheep with the worst group sizes but, that said, they still did alright.

I swabbed the bore every 5 rds for the first 20 rds at some bowling pins, dialing in the elevation, and then shot the next 25 rds at the 8" plate at 125 yds. I did put 5 sierras on paper but I taped them up before I took a picture. Not an exceptional group but under 2". That's really all I wanted with these rifles. I took the last 5 rds loaded with Speer and put them on paper. Not super thrilled but not awful by any stretch. In the picture below, I think there are three in that top right string (unless I missed the paper entirely which is always plausible) but it's still swinging between 2 groups. I think @lysanderxiii might have a point with a barrel preload. That, or a barrel tuner like one of those EC tuners - doesnt seem like it would be difficult to turn something like that up on the lathe



If I was paying attention, I would have swabbed the bore before the last 5 rd string and tested the Sierras instead of the Speers.

That said, the barrel's still solid to the receiver, the rear sight base is still solid, and the fowling looks pretty consistent. Next I'll do the DMR when I decide to have another range day.

 

[Cliff Roberts]

Well. Time to put this thread to rest. Went back out with the Scout and some reloads with 140 grain Hornady Interlock bullets a few weeks back after bedding under the rear sight base to give the barrel a little more stability. Found the best load with H4350 giving me about a 1.25 inch 90% group on average at 100 yds in the scout and verified it a few days later on the next sunny day we had.

Figuring I was done with that one, I moved on to the DMR which I still hadn't gotten to yet. Took it out to the range with the ammo the scout liked, shot a few dozen rounds into the dirt near the bowling pins - swabbing every 5-or-so rounds for the first 20 - and then moved to the steel. After a half dozen attempts at the steel at 100 yards with little luck, I moved to the paper to try to track down my zero.

When I put 10 rounds on paper, I was pretty disheartened to see a 9" group. I got about the same with the second 5 rd group so I took it back to the barn and stripped the rifle down to see if I could track down the issue. While I was reassembling the rifle, I noticed that the stock had warped and started putting pressure on the front end of the barrel. I wasn't happy but at least I had a direction of something to fix so I packed it up for the day.

About a week later, I stripped it back down and gave the front of the stock a good soak and clamped it straight in the long vise to let it dry and straighten over a few days, applying heat and moisture intermittently to try to try to acclimate the stock into it's new shape. After it dried, a little extra wood was removed from behind the endcap to try to ensure that the barrel was completely floated.

I took the rifle back out back and put 10 rounds down range and, wouldn't ya know it, the accuracy still sucked eggs.

Out of ideas, I took it to my brother last week (the actual gunsmith) and he double-checked my barrel torque and recommended a full-length bed: earhole-to-@$$hole. He milled out a couple of flats down the stock to set some steel rods for rigidity, cut out some wood behind the recoil lug and set a spring steel plate, lathered up the barrel and receiver in release agent, and Acraglassed the entire length of the stock from muzzle to tang before slopping the rifle back in to sit.

We took a look after we popped it out and, aside from a few pockets where we didn't get all the air out, it looked good. We touched up the air bubbles and empty spaces a bit and let it sit for a few days before taking it out to the range.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

I'm not big on a full-length bed because, aside from my 6.5 Greek Naval MS, anything I've free-floated has shown significantly greater accuracy following the free float - INCLUDING THE SCOUT WITH AN IDENTICAL, MATCHING BARREL! (Though, the bedding under the rear sight base did improve the accuracy there, too, I suppose). I don't know what it was about this setup, but the DMR just did not like being floated. Not one bit.

That said, with the bed job completed, the accuracy at 100 yds is... welll...



I think that will conclude my sisyphysian battle with these two rifles. I think, to answer the question posed in the title of this thread, the answer is probably "yes", most accounts of super accuracy from old swedes is probably anecdotal. Any accuracy eeked out of these is likely to be incidental, unrepeatable, misrepresented, or, at least in my case and on several occasions during this project, bled for.

That said, having gotten to ACTUALLY play with the round, now that I have a reliable platform to shoot it, the 6.5x55 is way more fun than this redneck has any justification to have! The range only stretches out about 300 ish yards so I can't do any long-range testing with it but I was really surprised how little drop this round had with the Sierra load and the Hornaday SST bullets. It almost feels like cheating.

I'd love to hear if anyone has any experience target shooting a 6.5x55 past 600 yards