Novus Collectus
Member
Nah, they'll just start with banning the bullet trains first.
(Swiss) Army weapons "kill 300 people a year" (Mostly Suicides)
- Thread starter davec
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Sistema1927
Member
I have, unfortunately, witnessed my fair share of suicides. While those committed with firearms are normally messier (but not always) than other methods they are quick and relatively painless.
I have seen a few botched hangings and poisonings where you know that the deceased suffered terribly in their final minutes. If they take away the guns (like that's going to happen) despondent people will resort to other methods, amny of them very painful.
I have seen a few botched hangings and poisonings where you know that the deceased suffered terribly in their final minutes. If they take away the guns (like that's going to happen) despondent people will resort to other methods, amny of them very painful.
Wes Janson
Member
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Quite right, but to those on the other side, life itself, no matter how painful, limited, or agonizing, is to be preferred over anything else. This cuts across traditional political boundaries.
Sistema1927
Member
I am fully in agreement with you. However, people who kill themselves are typically not thinking in a rational manner. If they want to end their life they will find a way to do it. The choice of weapon shouldn't be the focus, but rather working to help people work through the depression before it comes to this tragic end.
wacki
Member
Let me get this straight. Every able bodied man has a machine gun/assault rifle yet most of the murders are performed with illegal weapons? Anyone know what the most common illegal weapon is?
wacki
Member
Just curious what is the best source for Japanese suicides? The CDC would be the best for US deaths obviously but the CDC doesn't cover Japan.
PirateJoe
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
It is "army" weapons in private hands that are the first target of the change agents in the soon to be latest province of Europa called Switzerland. That is why "army" weapons are the subject focus of the change agent in question, comrade Killias.
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
Beagle-zebub
Member
nationmaster has data on suicide rates of nations, taken from a 1998 UN survey. America is about 11 per 100,000; Japan's is 23 per 100,000.
MD_Willington
Member
It's because they can't collect taxes from dead people... Can't have the cash cow killing itself now can we...
wacki
Member
I get different results:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_25_34-suicide-rates-ages-25-34
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_15_24-suicide-rates-ages-15-24
Looks like Japan has a lower suicide rate in both.
Wacki:
Look up the data by sex, not by age groups. It'll show that the Japanese male suicide rate is a bit higher than the American male suicide rate, and that the Japanese female suicide rate is much higher than the American female suicide rate.
It's likely that cultural differences account for the differences in when and why the Japanese commit suicide when compared to Americans.
Look up the data by sex, not by age groups. It'll show that the Japanese male suicide rate is a bit higher than the American male suicide rate, and that the Japanese female suicide rate is much higher than the American female suicide rate.
It's likely that cultural differences account for the differences in when and why the Japanese commit suicide when compared to Americans.
Fosbery
Member
I used to go to Switzerland quite regulariyl to shoot SLRs and pistols. Havn't been in a little while but I'm going again over Christmas 
The Swiss I meet are very pro-gun in an apathetic sort of way. They're not passionate like a lot of Americans. When you ask them about guns they just shrug and say 'they're important.'
There are anti-gun Swiss though. I fear that the pro-gun Swiss, whilst large in number, will not have the vigour to resist gun control in years to come.
They have already suffered a full-auto transfer ban and restrictions upon concealed carry amongst other things.
They used to be issued 75 rounds of ammunition in a sealed container for emergency use. It may have gone down to fifty, I forget. Ammunition (which is always match grade) is dirt cheap and sold to civillians by the government.
Swiss ranges are like heaven to me. K31s, 510s, 550s, P210s, P220s...all loaded with match grade ammo with electronic targets and covered firing points with benches and even shooting beds that you lie down on to shoot from.
The Swiss I meet are very pro-gun in an apathetic sort of way. They're not passionate like a lot of Americans. When you ask them about guns they just shrug and say 'they're important.'
There are anti-gun Swiss though. I fear that the pro-gun Swiss, whilst large in number, will not have the vigour to resist gun control in years to come.
They have already suffered a full-auto transfer ban and restrictions upon concealed carry amongst other things.
They used to be issued 75 rounds of ammunition in a sealed container for emergency use. It may have gone down to fifty, I forget. Ammunition (which is always match grade) is dirt cheap and sold to civillians by the government.
Swiss ranges are like heaven to me. K31s, 510s, 550s, P210s, P220s...all loaded with match grade ammo with electronic targets and covered firing points with benches and even shooting beds that you lie down on to shoot from.
Keith Wheeler
Member
Yes. Suicide in America tends to be linked to depression and sadness. In Japan suicide was considered for many years to be the only way to "save face" in certain situations. It is still highly romanticized. I've even seen a Japanese "how to" book on suicide. Check out what Yukio Mashima did.
Also look to Scandinavia for high suicide rates. Most medical folks tie it to depression from the long winter nights.
Obviously the suicide rate of a nation is not driven by access to firearms.
wacki
Member
mdao, I don't see a listing by sex. I don't even see a total.
http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/cri-crime
http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/cri-crime
wacki:
It can be found in the "Related Stats" sidebar for the suicide related stats.
Here's the link to them though.
Male suicide statistics.
Female suicide statistics.
It can be found in the "Related Stats" sidebar for the suicide related stats.
Here's the link to them though.
Male suicide statistics.
Female suicide statistics.
matis
Member
"So, the murderers cannot kill with kitchen knives or privately owned guns, just with government guns?"
I don't think you understand, El Tejon.
Although the Swiss do have better gun laws than most of the rest of Europe, they are still Europeans. And as Europeans they tend more toward socialism than do (some) Americans.
Socialists think that the government must provide the necessities of life. And in the Soviet Union, if you displeased the authorities sufficiently (e.g. dissented), they would take away your job (where you pretended to work and they pretended to pay you) and your apartment, and even your university degrees.
Following this reasoning , in order to commit murder or suicide you NEED a government gun and government ammo. And if they take them away, then you simply CANNOT commit such acts. Right?
Hope that clears it up for you, El Tejon.
Just PM me should you need anything else explained.
matis
I don't think you understand, El Tejon.
Although the Swiss do have better gun laws than most of the rest of Europe, they are still Europeans. And as Europeans they tend more toward socialism than do (some) Americans.
Socialists think that the government must provide the necessities of life. And in the Soviet Union, if you displeased the authorities sufficiently (e.g. dissented), they would take away your job (where you pretended to work and they pretended to pay you) and your apartment, and even your university degrees.
Following this reasoning
, in order to commit murder or suicide you NEED a government gun and government ammo. And if they take them away, then you simply CANNOT commit such acts. Right?Hope that clears it up for you, El Tejon.
Just PM me should you need anything else explained.
matis
Novus Collectus
Member
Suicide rate in Japan was 26.1 per 100,000 in 1998. http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/archives/200304/news.htm
In 2003 it was 27 per 100,000 which is double 2003 US rates and more Japanese kids were committing suicide as well probably making the above stated figures for 1998 in another post no longer applicable. The age groups where the US suicides were higher in 1998 may now be about the same, or higher as well in Japan now. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/FG28Dh01.html
It is not the access to firearms that affects the rate, rather the people's determination to do the deed is the determining factor. When places like Johns Hopkins makes claims that kids are more likley to carry out their suicide because a gun is handy, well they obviously ignore Japan's figures where there are no guns when they make the anti-gun bias claims.
In 2003 it was 27 per 100,000 which is double 2003 US rates and more Japanese kids were committing suicide as well probably making the above stated figures for 1998 in another post no longer applicable. The age groups where the US suicides were higher in 1998 may now be about the same, or higher as well in Japan now. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/FG28Dh01.html
It is not the access to firearms that affects the rate, rather the people's determination to do the deed is the determining factor. When places like Johns Hopkins makes claims that kids are more likley to carry out their suicide because a gun is handy, well they obviously ignore Japan's figures where there are no guns when they make the anti-gun bias claims.
Librarian
Member
There are also World Health Organization stats:
Japan 2003
Male 38/100,000
Female 13.5/100,000
Total 25.5/100,000
US 2002
Male 17.9/100,000
Female 4.2/100,000
Total 11/100,000
Switzerland 2002
Male 27.4/100,000
Female 12.5/100,000
Total 19.8/100,000
Or, the whole international table is available (years reported vary widely).
Trying to associate some aspect of guns with suicide rates is not especially useful, IMHO. Partially it's because measuring the number, prevalence, distribution of firearms is at present quite poorly done even here in the US, where there is an active and sometimes passionate academic research establishment in the area.
Japan 2003
Male 38/100,000
Female 13.5/100,000
Total 25.5/100,000
US 2002
Male 17.9/100,000
Female 4.2/100,000
Total 11/100,000
Switzerland 2002
Male 27.4/100,000
Female 12.5/100,000
Total 19.8/100,000
Or, the whole international table is available (years reported vary widely).
Trying to associate some aspect of guns with suicide rates is not especially useful, IMHO. Partially it's because measuring the number, prevalence, distribution of firearms is at present quite poorly done even here in the US, where there is an active and sometimes passionate academic research establishment in the area.
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