Taboo subject -- gun-owning pot-smokers?

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you have to remember drug laws were put in place not to suppress every ones rights just the blacks and hispanics and chinese
go google racist drug law origins and read the original congressional arguments

here is a google search link to get you started
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=racial+origins+drug+laws

1902 The Committee on the Acquirement of the Drug Habit of the American Pharmaceutical Association declares: "If the Chinaman cannot get along without his 'dope,' we can get along without him." [Quoted in ibid, p. 17]

1910 Dr. Hamilton Wright, considered by some the father of U.S. anti-narcotics laws, reports that American contractors give cocaine to their Negro employees to get more work out of them. [Musto, op. cit. p. 180]

1914 Dr. Edward H Williams cites Dr. Christopher Kochs "Most of the attack upon white women of the South are the direct result of the cocaine crazed Negro brain." Dr. Williams concluded that " . . Negro cocaine fiends are now a known Southern menace." [New York Times, Feb. 8, 1914]

1914 Congressman Richard P. Hobson of Alabama, urging a prohibition amendment to the Constitution, asserts: "Liquor will actually make a brute out of a Negro, causing him to commit unnatural crimes. The effect is the same on the white man, though the white man being further evolved it takes longer time to reduce him to the same level." Negro leaders join the crusade against alcohol. [Ibid., p. 29]

1921 Thomas S. Blair, M.D., chief of the Bureau of Drug Control of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, publishes a paper in the *Journal of the American Medical Association* in which he characterizes the Indian peyote religion a "habit indulgence in certain cactaceous plants," calls the belief system "superstition" and those who sell peyote "dope vendors," and urges the passage of a bill in Congress that would prohibit the use of peyote among the Indian tribes of the Southwest. He concludes with this revealing plea for abolition: "The great difficulty in suppressing this habit among the Indians arises from the fact that the commercial interests involved in the peyote traffic are strongly entrenched, and they exploit the Indian. . . . Added to this is the superstition of the Indian who believes in the Peyote Church. As soon as an effort is made to suppress peyote, the cry is raised that it is unconstitutional to do so and is an invasion of religious liberty. Suppose the Negros of the South had Cocaine Church!" [Thomas S. Blair, Habit indulgence in certain cactaceous plants among the Indians, *Journal of the American Medical Association*, 76:1033-1034 (April 9), 1921; p. 1034]


1925 Robert A. Schless: "I believe that most drug addiction today is due directly to the Harrison Anti-Narcotic Act, which forbids the sale of narcotics without a physician's prescription. . . . Addicts who are broke act as *agent provocateurs* for the peddlers, being rewarded by gifts of heroin or credit for supplies. The Harrison Act made the drug peddler, and the drug peddler makes drug addicts." [Robert A. Schless, The drug addict, *American Mercury*, 4:196-199 (Feb.), 1925; p. 198]

1937 Shortly before the Marijuana Tax Act, Commissioner Harry J. Anslinger writes: "How many murders, suicides, robberies, criminal assaults, hold-ups, burglaries, and deeds of maniacal insanity it [marijuana] causes each year, especially among the young, can only be conjectured." [Quoted in John Kaplan, *Marijuana*, p. 92]

1943 Colonel J.M. Phalen, editor of the *Military Surgeon*, declares in an editorial entitled "The Marijuana Bugaboo": "The smoking of the leaves, flowers, and seeds of Cannibis sativa is no more harmful than the smoking of tobacco. . . . It is hoped that no witch hunt will be instituted in the military service over a problem that does not exist." [Quoted in ibid. p. 234]
1949 Ludwig von Mises, leading modern free-market economist and social philosopher: "Opium and morphine are certainly dangerous, habit-forming drugs. But once the principle is admitted that is the duty of government to protect the individual against his own foolishness, no serious objections can be advanced against further encroachments. A good case could be made out in favor of the prohibition of alcohol and nicotine. And why limit the governments benevolent providence to the protection of the individual's body only? Is is not the harm a man can inflect on his mind and soul even more disastrous than any bodily evils? Why not prevent him from reading bad books and seeing bad plays, from looking at bad paintings and statues and listening to bad music? The mischief done by bad ideologies, surely, is much more pernicious, both for the individual and for the whole society, than that done by narcotic drugs." [Ludwig von Mises, *Human Action*, pp. 728-729]
 
Rather than saying "me too" to everything Justin said, I would rather say this:

Justin, thank you very much for reading my mind, fighting this battle, and conveying the voice of Liberty so eloquently.
 
because thinking that people are just going to do it in the privacy of their own homes is crazy. they said people could drink just don't do it and drive, could you believe it? people still drink and drive.
Because thinking that people are just going to do it in the privacy of their own homes is crazy. They said people could have sex just don't do it with children and spread disease or run up the welfare roles with unwanted children and pregnant teens, could you believe it? People still do children, have unwanted children, children still get pregnant and disease still gets spread.

I say ban all sex,
it's for the children
 
good point

lets outlaw masturbation
its a moral outrage people are masturbating and destroying potential human lives. its time we do whats right we should have a masturbation police checking to make sure no one is being nuaghty. there ought to be a 2 day back ground check for any one trying to purchase vaseline.
 
sigmaman said:
lets outlaw masturbation
its a moral outrage people are masturbating and destroying potential human lives. its time we do whats right we should have a masturbation police checking to make sure no one is being nuaghty. there ought to be a 2 day back ground check for any one trying to purchase vaseline.


Who wants my guns? It looks like I'm off to club fed :p
 
i dont like cats

looks like i will have to neglect my wife and abuse myself alot this weekend
my work is cut out :) pending my back ground check on the lubricant
dont fire your weapon dry i always say
 
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The only "POT SMOKING" that goes on around me is when I put the water on boil for a quick cup of JAVA while I'm doing gun cleaning, I'm getting real tired of buying new pots :cuss: , if I only had a memory, I need a pot that won't burn when the all the water boils out of it. IF they can put a man on the moon why can't they make a NON-Smoking pot ?
 
serious note

if you have a teflon coated pot dont let it get heated over 400 degrees
the fumes will definatly get you sick and will probably kill your pet birds if you have any.
its called the teflon flu and it makes you sick for like a day
i had it its like being poisoned
 
sigmaman said:
if you have a teflon coated pot dont let it get heated over 400 degrees
the fumes will definatly get you sick and will probably kill your pet birds if you have any.
its called the teflon flu and it makes you sick for like a day
i had it its like being poisoned



That's because burning teflon gives off cyanide gas, among other things, but it does have to be over 400 by quite a ways. :uhoh: :what:
 
That's because burning teflon gives off cyanide gas, among other things, but it does have to be over 400 by quite a ways.

Interesting, got the reaction? I've heard this before, and always figured it was the Fluorine that did it. Teflon = PTFE = polytetrafluoroethylene. Fluorine is NASTY stuff, worse than Chlorine IIRC.

poesraven: Maybe its time to make your java in something other than a pot on stove. I recomend a perculator. Just keep away from toddlers. ;)
 
Rather than saying "me too" to everything Justin said, I would rather say this:

Justin, thank you very much for reading my mind, fighting this battle, and conveying the voice of Liberty so eloquently.

Steve- you're very welcome. Unfortunately it seems that many people are unable to see past their own pet liberties to the big picture of not only true liberty, but also personal responsibility.

And this isn't related to just drug use or gun ownership, either. Any given topic is bound to be somebody's society-crushing bugaboo.

:mad:
 
Don't need the raid, sealed all cracks w/ silicone, actually used more silicone sealing up my tiny home than they probably use in all of the boob implants and I think its what holds my home together. Also gave me an idea- just fill the humidifier w/ furniture polish- whole house shines afterward. :D
 
HF is some really nasty stuff. If it gets on you in liquid form they have to inject liquified parrifin behind it so it'll stop eating thru you. Incidentally, I thought you had to get PTFE up around 5000 degree's F before it gives off the really nasty fumes. Perhaps I'm wrong.

I'm not going to spout any opinions of the original subject, as I think it's been covered by one entity or another.

OK, maybe just this nugget passed to me by a close friend: "How can anyone tell you that you can't consume a plant... not a processed plant product like opium, not a distilled plant product like alcohol, but a plant?"

(Yeah, I know they regulate tobacco, but you can still consume it, whether it's wise or not.)
 
Justin said:
Steve- you're very welcome. Unfortunately it seems that many people are unable to see past their own pet liberties to the big picture of not only true liberty, but also personal responsibility.

And this isn't related to just drug use or gun ownership, either. Any given topic is bound to be somebody's society-crushing bugaboo.

:mad:


That is a pretty good analysis of the situation.
I don't understand why people never see that it is not about guns.
It is not about drugs.
Those are just the visible part of the bigger issue.
It is about an attempt (often a successful one) to tighten the chains even more around our necks.
It is about control.
No matter how you look at, I am never going to be in support of stripping any liberty away from a peaceful person who is just trying to live their life.

I hate gun control because I hate being controlled.
I hate the war on drugs for the same reason. Those choices are mine. They are not the government's choices and they are not my neighbors' choices.
They are my decisions to make.

And please don't wheel out the old "but it is for the good of the children" argument.
Children can't buy guns, tobacco, or beer.
Why would we make any different with marijuana?
 
*Tilts head* Hmm?

Where do you people get this stuff?

HF Treatment

Calcium gluconate gel is used to treat HF burns not any liquid wax!

I agree with goon compleatly

Why would we make any different with marijuana?

Well MJ is cheaper then guns and ammo and can be propagated by seed :)
The high is better then beer and tobbacco; but is it better then shooting? :confused:
No matter how you look at it MJ can't defend your home from criminals :(
Modern ammo needs no outside source of flame to work but the bong does :scrutiny:
MJ smells better then beer or tobbacco; does it smell better then some Hopps #9? :confused:

So many questions
 
Considering how the law has been wrong so many times through out history, and in so many countries, and how it is wrong in many ways in and places in this country. People should not appeal to it as a moral authority.

In the case of guns, drugs, sex, cars, etc. You should punish people for their actions, not potential actions. Pretty much everything can be used negligently or in a crime, so banning things on potential negligence (i.e. drunk driving) does not make sense.

We have spent over 16.4 Billion on the WODs this year. 2 million arrested every year, 4,000 cases of HIV a year. Check out http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm I found it on google.

We could put every single street dealer and drug runner out of business tonight if we ended the WODs.
 
I have avoided this thread for as long as possible. Too much like work, since I am a prosecutor attached to a drug enforcement unit.

Marihuana is rapidly becoming socially acceptible. As this trend continues, the law will have to adapt to society, as it always has. I quite honestly expect marihuana to be legalized in the next 10-20 years, if not sooner. (Which will be ironic, because it may well become legal at about the same point in time that tobacco becomes illegal, but that's another thread.) ANd, the marihuana industry is a large portion fo the underground drug trade, because it is so socially acceptible. Think of the associations. College kids use pot. Rock stars get stoned. Even Bill Cosby makes jokes about using marihuana.

As for the other drugs, like cocaine, methamphetamine, and heroin (which is making a huge comeback), I can't see a point in the near future where these drugs will be legalized. Why? The risks inherent in alcohol are more pervasive with these drugs. Think of the DUI cases, the families destroyed by alcoholism, the criminal behavior often associated with someone being "drunk and stupid." Now, imagine these same situations with stronger drugs atht are more addictive. Trust me, in 10 years in this job, I have never seen someone who was truly an "occassional" or "social" user of coke, meth, or herion. Do we think that drug-related crime will go down simply because the government becomes the source of the drugs? The same addicts will rob you to buy from the government as will rob you to buy from Charlie on the corner. They may not need to do it as ofetn, if the price comes down, but they will do it. The only crime reduction will be among the smugglers and dealers. In my experience, these people do not commit other crimes, by and large, because it is bad for business. The turf wars simply do not happen, because there is plenty of turf to go around.

Some may argue that it is a liberty issue. Some may argue that it is an intrusive government issue. Some may argue that it is an attempt to legislate morality. To all of you, I agree, to an extent. So, let the debate rage on. And, for those of you who do indulge, please be careful, put the guns and car keys away, and make sure everyone stays safe.
 
Try as I might, I still cannot see why it is the government's job to tell people what they can or cannot do with their bodies (so long as they do not harm anyone else). Last time I checked, there was no law against suicide - why drugs?

My view on drugs has always been analagous to prohibition, but in a manner a bit different from the usual view. During prohibition, untold numbers of people became sick or died from poorly made illegal liquor - the same is true today with illegal drugs (in addition to addictive properties). Today, there is no need for bathtub liquor, as safe alcohol can be purchased without much trouble, thus eliminating the market for the dangerous substitute.

Were drugs legalized, then the pharmaceutical industry would turn a sizable amount of its resources towards developing safe and non addicting recreational drugs (with inspections and quality controls - remember, the good name of the company is at risk) - and again, the market for the illegal substutes would disappear.

But then there's the matter of all those DEA and other Federal agents that would suddenly be out of a job....
 
Think of the DUI cases, the families destroyed by alcoholism, the criminal behavior often associated with someone being "drunk and stupid." Now, imagine these same situations with stronger drugs atht are more addictive.
There is no need to imagine. These drugs are already available and relatively easy to get. Anyone who wants to do these drugs is doing them. And if they are prone to doing stupid things while under the influence of these drugs they have already done those things and will do those things again.

Do we think that drug-related crime will go down simply because the government becomes the source of the drugs?
I don't think you'll find many people around here advocating that. :)
 
drug costs

quote
Do we think that drug-related crime will go down simply because the government becomes the source of the drugs? The same addicts will rob you to buy from the government as will rob you to buy from Charlie on the corner. They may not need to do it as ofetn, if the price comes down,

well right now to illegally make a kilo of cocaine costs less than 150.00
a kilo is a 1000 grams so thats almost a years supply for a hard core drug addict
if you were to buy a kilo at wholesale street prices that would cost between 12000 and 30000 dollars.
now here is the kicker
legalise it cost would come down say 75 -100 a kilo street price . if your drug addict cant afford it he/she could buy it by the gram
lets say a gram costs 1.00 (lot of profit for 1.00 gram coke) how many addicts do you think will rob people?
no i see a trend towrds some pan handling junkies "Hey mister got some spare change so i can get me a fix" i dont see a trend towards heavy crime
robbing some one and getting caught means jail. Going to jail means they cant use. Pan handling for a dollar means just being embarrassed.
that of course is not even touching on the reduced savings in law enforcement, and the dismantling of gangs who derive there income from drugs
treatment options? as people will either use and die, use and seek treatment, or use and not experience any problems, or just quit. all without the heavy costs associated with there behaviour nowassociated with the high cost
here is a link for the cali cartel and if you read one of the things they fear is legalisation
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/drug_trafficking.html
http://www.darkside.com.au/mba/cali.html
 
actually i do see crime related to legalised cocaine
first you would have people stealing cans so they could recycle them
maybe even violence as a couple of crack heads are fighting over some trash cans for the used cans in them
seriously there would be some crime that would be underage using
just as there is now with underage kids trying to get beer you would have underage kids trying to get coke but then again the way it is now underage kids can buy coke without an id. maybe if it was regulated you could reduce that.
this is what i propose legalise coke and anyone providing cocaine to underage people club fed and 10 years sounds right to me
 
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