TAC for 6.5 Creedmoor?

[mdo]

Has anyone tried TAC in the 6.5 Creedmoor? I was thinking of trying it with the Speer 90 gr TNT bullet. Ramshot does not list any load data for TAC but Sierra and Hornady do, sort of.
Sierra has their 85 gr HP starting at 36.5 gr TAC (2900 fps) maxing at 42.0 gr (3300 fps).
Hornady has their 95 gr V-MAX starting at 38.2 gr (2900 fps) maxing at 41.0 gr (3100 fps).

Extrapolating data I'm thinking of starting the 90 gr TNT at 37.5 gr TAC and going up to 40 gr. Does this seem reasonable?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Has anyone tried TAC in the 6.5 Creedmoor? I was thinking of trying it with the Speer 90 gr TNT bullet. Ramshot does not list any load data for TAC but Sierra and Hornady do, sort of.
Sierra has their 85 gr HP starting at 36.5 gr TAC (2900 fps) maxing at 42.0 gr (3300 fps).
Hornady has their 95 gr V-MAX starting at 38.2 gr (2900 fps) maxing at 41.0 gr (3100 fps).

Extrapolating data I'm thinking of starting the 90 gr TNT at 37.5 gr TAC and going up to 40 gr. Does this seem reasonable?

What is your seating depth for those bullets and I’ll run them through GRT?

 

[mdo]

Mr. Flintstone:
Speer data lists an OAL of 2.700" for this bullet. That only has about .13" in the case. That doesn't seem like there will be enough neck tension so I was going to try to seat it about .25" in the case for an OAL of about 2.600". I appreciate your help.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I did a work up using the default values for the components seated at .25”. They may be a little off from your actual components.
Here are the results:


It looks like your estimates were pretty close, with a little wiggle room. Remember that this is just a computer simulation, and actual pressures will vary, but it gives you an idea of what you’re looking at.

 

[Charlie98]

What is the case fill? Is that the 'load ratio' of 84.3%?

In my very limited experience, TAC likes a case full, otherwise it gets a little erratic. I think that's one of the reasons why TAC isn't a good .30-06 powder, even though it has a burn rate similar to IMR4064... a very good .30-06 powder.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

What is the case fill? Is that the 'load ratio' of 84.3%?

In my very limited experience, TAC likes a case full, otherwise it gets a little erratic. I think that's one of the reasons why TAC isn't a good .30-06 powder, even though it has a burn rate similar to IMR4064... a very good .30-06 powder.

Yes. Load ratio is the same as case fill. I can’t make any judgement about TAC in 6.5 Creedmoor as I’ve never used it for that, but it seems to work fine in 30-30.

 

[mdo]

Mr. Flintstone (and everyone):
Thanks for running those numbers and opinions. It looks like I'm safe using those charge weights since the max pressure for the 6.5 Creedmoor is 62,000 PSI.
What program is that?
I didn't know if TAC would be good for 6.5 Creedmoor but I have an open pound, some bullets and time to play.
I had always read that TAC wasn't supposed to be good for 30-06 too. I ended up playing with an open box of bullets years back and found that my old 30-06 Savage 110 liked TAC. It easily and consistently did 5 shot sub inch groups at 100 yards (see attached), sub 1.75 inch at 200 yards. I guess no one told my rifle it wasn't supposed to do good with TAC. That load has put venison in the freezer.
Weather permitting I'll play with this 6.5 load and let you know what I find.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Mr. Flintstone (and everyone):
Thanks for running those numbers and opinions. It looks like I'm safe using those charge weights since the max pressure for the 6.5 Creedmoor is 62,000 PSI.
What program is that?
I didn't know if TAC would be good for 6.5 Creedmoor but I have an open pound, some bullets and time to play.
I had always read that TAC wasn't supposed to be good for 30-06 too. I ended up playing with an open box of bullets years back and found that my old 30-06 Savage 110 liked TAC. It easily and consistently did 5 shot sub inch groups at 100 yards (see attached), sub 1.75 inch at 200 yards. I guess no one told my rifle it wasn't supposed to do good with TAC. That load has put venison in the freezer.
Weather permitting I'll play with this 6.5 load and let you know what I find.

That is Gordon’s Reloading Tool. It functions pretty much like Quickload to simulate pressures and velocities. it’s free to download and use at https://www.grtools.de/doku.php

It works pretty good, but is standardized on CIP, so you will need to change a few things, and since it was in Beta when Gordon died, there are a few things like case volumes and bullet lengths that you might need to correct.

 

[Charlie98]

I didn't know if TAC would be good for 6.5 Creedmoor but I have an open pound, some bullets and time to play.
I had always read that TAC wasn't supposed to be good for 30-06 too.

I worked up a load with TAC for my Garand, and it worked like I thought it would. I started researching it in earnest after the initial ladder, and that's when I started reading about issues with case fill and variation... so I just pulled back from it. The old Western manual (v8) has data for the SMK's in the .30-06... which is exactly what I wanted it for, but that data has conspicuously disappeared from the Hodgdon site... in fact ALL of the TAC .30-06 data is gone, save a single load with, oddly enough, the 110grn Barnes. My hope is they are just revalidating that data, but until then, I don't normally tempt fate like that.

My more recent ladders with TAC in the .308 gave me some strange velocity readings as well, which surprised me... I'm working on solving that at the moment.

Weather permitting I'll play with this 6.5 load and let you know what I find.

Please do!

 

[mdo]

I was able to get out and test the TAC powder with the 90 gr Speer TNT bullets today. Results were better than expected.
Load data:
6.5 Creedmoor
90 gr Speer TNT bullets
Win LRP
Hornady Brass, 4X fired, Full length sized, trimmed to 1.911 inches
Powder: Ramshot TAC loaded to 38.0, 39.0, and 40.0 grains. I didn't go very high in the load data because I wanted to see what it would do before I committed too much time and effort.
OAL 2.575"
Test rifle was a Bergara B14 Ridge Special Purpose. It has an 18" barrel and muzzle break, topped with Vortex 4-16x42 scope. This rifle (and my wife has one a few years older) have been picky with the bullets they like, but when you find it, they shoot great.
Groups were shot at 100 yards
Best group was the 38.0 gr at 0.78". The 39 and 40 grain were 1.19" and 1.15" respectively. Both of those groups could have been a smaller if I drank less coffee.
Overall I'm pretty surprised and happy with TAC in this load and may play with it a bit more.

 

[2ndtimer]

I was able to get out and test the TAC powder with the 90 gr Speer TNT bullets today. Results were better than expected.
Load data:
6.5 Creedmoor
90 gr Speer TNT bullets
Win LRP
Hornady Brass, 4X fired, Full length sized, trimmed to 1.911 inches
Powder: Ramshot TAC loaded to 38.0, 39.0, and 40.0 grains. I didn't go very high in the load data because I wanted to see what it would do before I committed too much time and effort.
OAL 2.575"
Test rifle was a Bergara B14 Ridge Special Purpose. It has an 18" barrel and muzzle break, topped with Vortex 4-16x42 scope. This rifle (and my wife has one a few years older) have been picky with the bullets they like, but when you find it, they shoot great.
Groups were shot at 100 yards
Best group was the 38.0 gr at 0.78". The 39 and 40 grain were 1.19" and 1.15" respectively. Both of those groups could have been a smaller if I drank less coffee.
Overall I'm pretty surprised and happy with TAC in this load and may play with it a bit more.

Interesting. I didn't expect that good of results from TAC with a case capacity of the 6.5 Creedmoor. You may want to re-test in warmer weather. I tested some .223 loads in even colder temperatures and was really surprised at the velocity loss compared to 40 degrees warmer weather for both TAC and X-Terminator compared to Benchmark (which lost surprisingly little velocity).

 

[mdo]

I didn't expect that good of results from TAC with a case capacity of the 6.5 Creedmoor. You may want to re-test in warmer weather.

I didn't either. Since I live in eastern Washington it's probably going to be awhile before I can test in warm weather. I'm not really worried about it though. This is basically a cheap target and possibly coyote load so it should be adequate for those purposes.

 

[2ndtimer]

I didn't either. Since I live in eastern Washington it's probably going to be awhile before I can test in warm weather. I'm not really worried about it though. This is basically a cheap target and possibly coyote load so it should be adequate for those purposes.

I live in eastern Washington, too! I’m really ready for this sloppy leftover snow to be gone. We sure have had an unusually wet winter this year. Oh, and I run TAC in my .308 AR with Speer 125 gr TNT’s. It is my load for “big” coyotes.

 

[mdo]

2ndtimer: It seems like it has been a bit of a weird winter.
I'm in the Spokane area. Have seen the "big coyote" tracks at Rustler's Gulch Wildlife Area and around the Colville NF. We don't have them yet where we are but have plenty of mountain lions.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I was able to get out and test the TAC powder with the 90 gr Speer TNT bullets today. Results were better than expected.
Load data:
6.5 Creedmoor
90 gr Speer TNT bullets
Win LRP
Hornady Brass, 4X fired, Full length sized, trimmed to 1.911 inches
Powder: Ramshot TAC loaded to 38.0, 39.0, and 40.0 grains. I didn't go very high in the load data because I wanted to see what it would do before I committed too much time and effort.
OAL 2.575"
Test rifle was a Bergara B14 Ridge Special Purpose. It has an 18" barrel and muzzle break, topped with Vortex 4-16x42 scope. This rifle (and my wife has one a few years older) have been picky with the bullets they like, but when you find it, they shoot great.
Groups were shot at 100 yards
Best group was the 38.0 gr at 0.78". The 39 and 40 grain were 1.19" and 1.15" respectively. Both of those groups could have been a smaller if I drank less coffee.
Overall I'm pretty surprised and happy with TAC in this load and may play with it a bit more.

That looks pretty good!

I know a guy who runs Reloder 15 in his 6.5x47L with fantastic results. It has a little smaller capacity than 6.5CM, but RL15 and TAC have a similar burn rate.

I've run IMR4320 in my 6.5x47L and it shot pretty well, and it has a similar burn rate.

 

[mdo]

Since it warmed up in eastern WA and melted the snow off the 200 yard benches I decided to try TAC and the 90 gr. Speer TNT at 200 yards.
Load data:
6.5 Creedmoor
90 gr Speer TNT bullets
Win LRP
Hornady Brass, 4X fired, Full length sized, trimmed to 1.911 inches
Powder: Ramshot TAC loaded to 38.0, 38.5, 41.0 and 42.0 grains. I went all the way to the max load data to see what would happen.
Same rifle, a Bergara B14 Ridge Special Purpose. It has an 18" barrel and muzzle break, topped with Vortex 4-16x42 scope. The muzzle flash was impressive with TAC in the overcast conditions.
The best group was the 38.0 gr at 1.55". This tracks exactly with the 0.78" group at 100 yards.
The 38.5 gr group was 2.43" but a wiggle out to the right affected that a bit. 41.0 grains was 4.26". Terrible. 42.0 grains was 2.25". There were no pressure signs at 42.0 grains.

I'll probably stick with the 38.0 gr load since that will serve my purposes of shooting paper, possibly coyotes, and killing jugs of ice. I may try it with magnum primes just to see if that makes a difference since I have heard sometimes that helps ball powders.

 

[2ndtimer]

Since it warmed up in eastern WA and melted the snow off the 200 yard benches I decided to try TAC and the 90 gr. Speer TNT at 200 yards.
Load data:
6.5 Creedmoor
90 gr Speer TNT bullets
Win LRP
Hornady Brass, 4X fired, Full length sized, trimmed to 1.911 inches
Powder: Ramshot TAC loaded to 38.0, 38.5, 41.0 and 42.0 grains. I went all the way to the max load data to see what would happen.
Same rifle, a Bergara B14 Ridge Special Purpose. It has an 18" barrel and muzzle break, topped with Vortex 4-16x42 scope. The muzzle flash was impressive with TAC in the overcast conditions.
The best group was the 38.0 gr at 1.55". This tracks exactly with the 0.78" group at 100 yards.
The 38.5 gr group was 2.43" but a wiggle out to the right affected that a bit. 41.0 grains was 4.26". Terrible. 42.0 grains was 2.25". There were no pressure signs at 42.0 grains.

I'll probably stick with the 38.0 gr load since that will serve my purposes of shooting paper, possibly coyotes, and killing jugs of ice. I may try it with magnum primes just to see if that makes a difference since I have heard sometimes that helps ball powders.

I would be real curious what kind of velocity you are getting with that combo (faster burning powder and short 18” barrel). Clearly, your accuracy is sufficient, in 2 of the 3 loads at least.

 

[AJC1]

Since it warmed up in eastern WA and melted the snow off the 200 yard benches I decided to try TAC and the 90 gr. Speer TNT at 200 yards.
Load data:
6.5 Creedmoor
90 gr Speer TNT bullets
Win LRP
Hornady Brass, 4X fired, Full length sized, trimmed to 1.911 inches
Powder: Ramshot TAC loaded to 38.0, 38.5, 41.0 and 42.0 grains. I went all the way to the max load data to see what would happen.
Same rifle, a Bergara B14 Ridge Special Purpose. It has an 18" barrel and muzzle break, topped with Vortex 4-16x42 scope. The muzzle flash was impressive with TAC in the overcast conditions.
The best group was the 38.0 gr at 1.55". This tracks exactly with the 0.78" group at 100 yards.
The 38.5 gr group was 2.43" but a wiggle out to the right affected that a bit. 41.0 grains was 4.26". Terrible. 42.0 grains was 2.25". There were no pressure signs at 42.0 grains.

I'll probably stick with the 38.0 gr load since that will serve my purposes of shooting paper, possibly coyotes, and killing jugs of ice. I may try it with magnum primes just to see if that makes a difference since I have heard sometimes that helps ball powders.

I never had the best accuracy with tac at max. 223 is 24.0 ish with a 69 and 308 was 42.5 with a 155. I've had the opposite be true with 4064 and varget. Max with those is best.

 

[mdo]

Last of the playing with TAC and 90 gr Speer TNT bullets in my 6.5 Creedmoor. This time I tried regular Winchester Large Rifle Primers and CCI Magnum Large Rifle Primers. I shot at 100 yards since it was drizzling when I set up and the 200 yard benches are not covered.
Results:
38.0 gr TAC WIN LRP .99" (5th shot opened it up)
38.0 gr TAC CCI magnum LRP 1.15"
42.0 gr TAC WIN LRP 1.48"
42.0 gr TAC CCI magnum LRP 1.56"

It doesn't seem like magnum primers made any difference. Some say it does in ball powders, others say it doesn't. I guess you don't know until you try.

I would be real curious what kind of velocity you are getting with that combo (faster burning powder and short 18” barrel). Clearly, your accuracy is sufficient, in 2 of the 3 loads at least.

Based on extrapolating from the published data and loss due to shorted barrel, I'm hypothesizing about 2800 fps for the 38.0 gr load. One of these days I'll invest in a chronograph and confirm.

 

[2ndtimer]

Last of the playing with TAC and 90 gr Speer TNT bullets in my 6.5 Creedmoor. This time I tried regular Winchester Large Rifle Primers and CCI Magnum Large Rifle Primers. I shot at 100 yards since it was drizzling when I set up and the 200 yard benches are not covered.
Results:
38.0 gr TAC WIN LRP .99" (5th shot opened it up)
38.0 gr TAC CCI magnum LRP 1.15"
42.0 gr TAC WIN LRP 1.48"
42.0 gr TAC CCI magnum LRP 1.56"

It doesn't seem like magnum primers made any difference. Some say it does in ball powders, others say it doesn't. I guess you don't know until you try.


Based on extrapolating from the published data and loss due to shorted barrel, I'm hypothesizing about 2800 fps for the 38.0 gr load. One of these days I'll invest in a chronograph and confirm.

I have to say I am surprised at how well your 38.0 gr load has performed in your 6.5 Creedmoor. Most people are of the opinion that it needs to be loaded to max for best accuracy. (I am not one of them, since my best TAC load has been 24.5 gr with a Hornady 62 gr BTHP, which is well under 5.56 NATO max for bullet weight.
I also like your targets. I use the same orange stick on circles on “recycled” cardboard
cereal boxes or 12 packs of soda cans.
If you are ever down in the Tri-Cities, hit me up. I can take you as a guest to my club and set up my chronograph and see just what those loads are doing.

 

[Charlie98]

I am not one of them, since my best TAC load has been 24.5 gr with a Hornady 62 gr BTHP, which is well under 5.56 NATO max for bullet weight.

I would tend to agree, and, in fact, that 24.5grn load is what I wound up with, with that very same bullet (or the 62grn Hornady FMJ, which behaves similarly.) It's nearly an exact match to my 24.5grn H335 load with the same bullets... and both produce 2800fps from my 16" 1:9 RRA barrel, with nearly identical accuracy to M855.

 

[mdo]

I also like your targets. I use the same orange stick on circles on “recycled” cardboard
cereal boxes or 12 packs of soda cans.

Just doing my part to be an enviro greenie. After the cardboard has holes put in it and groups are measured it gets thrown in the recycle bin. Plus the stickers are much cheaper than buying printed targets.

If you are ever down in the Tri-Cities, hit me up. I can take you as a guest to my club and set up my chronograph and see just what those loads are doing.

I do make it down there occasionally for work. Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on it.

 

[AJC1]

Just doing my part to be an enviro greenie. After the cardboard has holes put in it and groups are measured it gets thrown in the recycle bin. Plus the stickers are much cheaper than buying printed targets.



I do make it down there occasionally for work. Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on it.

The signs used for elections with the two wire legs are amazingly good, and are trash after the election. If you ask the right person they might give you as many as you want.

 

[2ndtimer]

The signs used for elections with the two wire legs are amazingly good, and are trash after the election. If you ask the right person they might give you as many as you want.

Probably the loser. The winner wants to save theirs for next time.

 

[2ndtimer]

Just doing my part to be an enviro greenie. After the cardboard has holes put in it and groups are measured it gets thrown in the recycle bin. Plus the stickers are much cheaper than buying printed targets.



I do make it down there occasionally for work. Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on it.

If you do make it down, be sure to bring your rifle and the 6.5 Creedmoor TAC loads. Like the first criminal in Dirty Harry, “ I gots to know”!