Tactical shotgun course of fire?

[Dr.Rob]

Another thread got me thinking.

A lot of us have switched to the carbine as our go to HD long gun. Most of us have never used a shotgun like we use our carbines.

How would YOU design a shotgun COF using buckshot?

I would do a blind stage with a number of shoot/no shoot targets and partially obscured targets at various heights simulating a hallway and a couple of rooms. I would make a reload likely, if not mandatory. I would include the opening of doors to force the competitor to practice manipulating the environment while handling a shotgun. Shoot throughs would be a hazard to no-shoot targets.

I would not have a 'slug select' stage unless I was training for LE, and have that as the final distant shot (say 50 to 100 yards) that would end the stage.

I would let anyone run this with a pistol grip only shotgun, provided they obeyed the range rules.

I'd love to hear your ideas.

 

[Inebriated]

Need a low-light portion for the "I don't need no light" crowd.

I like what you did with requiring 8 shots for the duty course, though... A good portion of duty shotguns are 6+1, so requiring either a reload or a changeover is smart, considering most people have 5-8 rounds in the gun and 4-8 rounds on the gun.

 

[Skribs]

I think as long as it includes...

Shoot dont shoot (and a point where accuracy matters)
Barriers
Required reload
Low light area
Area with multiple targets

It is a good idea. I've thought it would be interesting to have sort of a 2 gun training/competition with your primary HD long gun amd handgun.

 

[JamieC]

I'm planning on attending a tactical shotgun/pistol class in about 6 weeks, since, IMO, the 12 gauge is the most potent SD for home defense, I want to be able to use it to it's full extent if needed. If you get the opportunity to acquire one of Magpul's shotgun DVDs, you'll learn why the shottie is called a "thinking man's gun".

 

[lemaymiami]

Here's what I'd add to a "tactical course of fire".... It would be a separate category and listed as a "combat tactical, etc". The only elements added would be a run at high port of at least 50 meters (100 meters would be better...) that was followed by a running obstacle course of some kind that included at least one five foot fence made to be climbed with shotgun slinged for safety (and no round would be allowed to be chambered until after the physical part of the course was completed and the shooter was finally approachng the actual shooting part of the course for range safety purposes).

In real life the weapon would have a round chambered the moment you laid hands on it.... but always left with safety on until it was needed.

I know that most of us (me included are long past our "combat days" as young individuals -I've known a few females that could easily outdo me in such a course -no matter how I hard I trained for it....) so this would be an addtional course of fire -meant only for those wanting the additional challenge.

A personal note -- on the one occasion I actually used a shotgun on the street in 22 years as a cop - it was after sprinting with it for around 200 meters to intercept a man on foot running with weapon in hand.... to put it mildly I wasn't calm and relaxed in any way, my adrenaline was at max (I was scared to death actually). There were probably other factors limiting my abilities that day as well - but back then my only training with a shotgun consisted of standing up and shooting at non-moving paper targets as directed (a total of less than 10 rounds....). Adding serious physical stress to a tactical course of fire ought to be done a lot more often than most other courses -in my opinion.

 

[oneounceload]

I would also find a way to include shooting downward (to simulate firing from a second floor landing at perps coming up the stairs)

 

[Dr.Rob]

Moving this to ST&T for more input.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I agree with Lemay, start it off with a sprint to get the drill going. Start at the line, run out of the range, around a post and back to the start line to pick up the gun. This will get your adrenaline going. You might also want to do a course of fire on the run if you have a long enough range area.

Also, what about a drill that requires the shooter to know the pattern of their shotgun? For example, you put shoot and no-shoot targets right next to (or between) each other, and they start the stage far back and run forwards until they know they can hit the shoot target only.

Finally, shotguns run out of ammo pretty quick. As such, I think it is fair to require a significant amount of reloading. I'd require multiple shots on targets, so that the course of fire takes at least 25 rounds. I don't habitually practice reloads with a carbine or pistol, as I don't want to accidentally drop a mostly full mag. However, with a shotgun and a 5ish shot tube you better practice your reloads.

 

[lemaymiami]

Sebastian has some good input here... The only thing I'd change is to require that the run up to the shooting area be with shotgun at high port (but no round allowed to be chambered until in the shooting area -weapon on safe, no round chambered during the physical portion of the course of fire). This replicates real life where things in a tactical sense are quite fluid and some serious exertion might be required to even get to the scene where your weapon needs to be employed. Of course this sort of stuff separates us "old guys" from fit and ready young service types (civilian law or military responders). In an "active shooter" situation for instance a shopping mall might require an armed responder to sprint around buildings to cover an entrance/exit that's not able to be driven up to (and that's just one of many real life scenarios when you're forced to do more than the usual response...).

 

[Bix]

I had the experience of missing some fairly large targets at close range when running a COF in an Awerbuck class using very tight-patterning buckshot. It was a valuable experience and helped me see the importance of knowing where my particular load patterns at various distances and how that translates into how much (or how little) marksmanship is required from me to make a given shot.

If I were setting something up, I'd try to replicate this because it was pretty useful for me. A series of targets at a range that will take advantage of the patterening effect followed by a series of targets at a (closer) range that will not should do it.

 

[g.willikers]

A defensive type course of fire for shotguns probably isn't going to be much different than one for handguns.
The distances are about the same.
How about using zombie targets and only counting head shots.
Just to emphasize what Bix said about needing to be accurate at close distances.
Balloons make good zombie heads, especially red ones.
Since it's going to be a blind or mystery stage, give the no shoots the same kind of balloons for heads as the zombies.
You'll no doubt have to wait for spring, though.

 

[1911 guy]

In my opinion, the only difference between courses of fire for "social work" should be the ranges the three different weapons are employed at. Let's face it, there are some basic skills needed, such as shooting from cover / concealment, maneuvering through doorways, stairwells, reloads, using a light, possible weapon transitions, etc.

The conditions of a gunfight do not alter when you choose a different firearm. These things must be done with whatever weapon you choose. However, altering the distance to suit the firearm being currently trained on makes sense to me.

My own opinion would be to take handguns to 25 yards, shotguns to 50 and carbines to 150. Ballpark, anyway. All courses of fire should include a few "in your face" scenarios, whether they result in shoot or no shoot.

 

[ChCx2744]

This seems like it would be a challenging course of fire. I think that if you allowed the participant to have a pistol as well, allowing for transitions, it would actually make it a bit easier, especially the shots where the BG is near the no shoot targets.

 

[Dr.Rob]

That was the point, when all you have is a shotgun loaded with buckshot how will you solve the problem? This wasn't intended as a 3-gun or 2-gun stage.

At 'across the room' distances your shot choice and choke (or lack thereof) will make a difference. Knowing how your shotgun patterns becomes an issue.

I suspect the hardest part of the stage would be taping the targets

 

[1911 guy]

If i were to take a shotgun class, or even just a "session" with friends and we were concentrating on shotguns, I'd rather shoot the entire thing with the scattergun.

Like Dr. Rob said, if all you have is a shotgun, how will you solve the problem? Learning to do it all with one gun is just as important as learning how to make clean transitions.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I suspect the hardest part of the stage would be taping the targets

You would be better off putting up a new target each time - e.g. playing card, 8.5x11 piece of paper, balloon (great in the wind - btw) etc. Any vendor trying to sell stuff at an event will likely have a bunch of shwag (he doesn't want to take home) which would make great targets for your match - shiny flyers, stickers, squeezy stress balls, leaky coffee cups etc. If, you know a Xerox repair guy, they are usually happy to run off thousands of copies for you while they are testing machines.

Also, I'd hold off on running this course of fire until your wooden target stands are almost worn out and you are planning on making more. They will be trashed after any sort of tactical shotgun day.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I suspect the hardest part of the stage would be taping the targets

The last class I had with Louis Awerbuck was a one day shotgun refresher. To save time and trouble, he used 'negative' targets - the cardboards had about an 8" circle cut out in the middle, and the idea was to shoot through the existing hole and not shoot up the cardboard.

 

[Inebriated]

I can't express how much more confident I got when I started using negative targets.

When you quit looking for the holes or the hit, and trust yourself to be hitting where you need, it becomes so much easier to focus on what you're actually doing.

 

[ACP]

For single family homeowners:

I'd have stairs or some sort of an elevated platform to shoot up/down; the stairs in my home are the choke point; if I have to shoot, it's going to be at a target coming up the stairs toward me

I'd have a long, narrow hallway (or two) with 3/4 obscured targets; I have two such hallways in my home that may have to be navigated

I'd have fewer "no shoot" targets; my family is not going to be running around the home

I'd have at least one side-by-side target (two bad guys standing next to each other)

I'd do it in low light or no light; to replicate a nighttime break-in

I'd have a few shots taken from retention position; to simulate close-range targets grabbing for your gun

I'd keep the partial hidden targets; simulates bad guys hiding behind furniture.

I'd have an audio tape playing at full blast of dogs barking, children crying and a wife on a cell phone talking with dispatch

 

[g.willikers]

I'd have an audio tape playing at full blast of dogs barking, children crying and a wife on a cell phone talking with dispatch

Diversions can add to the experience.
But easier to do at an indoor range, though.
Where are you going to be doing these?

 

[ChCx2744]

+1 on what ACP said.

I especially like the retention position shooting idea, either press contact or grab distance.

Partially obscured targets also seem very plausible, because a BG may decide to utilize their own cover/concealment tactics once you bring the noise.

 

[Odd Job]

When I did one of these courses many moons ago, it was on a range that had a "house" made of tires. This was in South Africa. There were about 4 or 5 rooms in the house with targets set up in various places.
Each shooter went in with a 12 gauge pump and also a pistol. Parts of the action were recorded on camera. These were the main points:

1) More "shoot" targets than "no shoot"
2) Targets were placed at various heights, partly obscured and also angled to produce a slim profile in some cases.
3) You were expected to reload whilst pointing the shotgun in the direction of the most likely approach of a threat
4) There were inert rounds mixed in with the live rounds, to check stoppage drills.
5) Last room was a pistol target or targets, the transition from pump to pistol was checked on camera.

What we didn't know, was things had been placed in the rooms on the tires or between the tires, which we were asked about after the run. I was surprised to find out that there were 5 loose rounds very close to my head in one place where I stopped to reload.
The same was found with another guy who didn't notice that a spare magazine from his own pistol was lying on the ground in one corner of the room.

It had been there all along, but went unnoticed because it didn't fit the expected visual pattern we had programmed ourselves for.

By the way in another part of that course, an instructed opened fire from above and behind us at a time we were not expecting, and the ground was hit several metres in front of us, with dust being kicked up. We all were startled, lost some seconds in the time it took us to engage the things we were engaging. That was outside the house, in a barricade setup.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Targets were placed at various heights, partly obscured and also angled to produce a slim profile in some cases.

That sure sounds familiar ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCCDuJGKQ5I

As do several of the other points.

This was in South Africa

Not surprised ...

 

[Odd Job]

From what I can deduce from Louis Awerbuck's courses, he must have known the guy who ran our course, or they both had a training plan derived from a common source. These are very similar guys.

The guy on our course was (amongst other things) a current serving member on the Johannesburg Flying Squad.

Here's a grainy still from one of the videos, this is me in a little "courtyard" area, many moons ago: