Takarov/Makarov?

[ozarkgunner]

My father has some sort of takarov/Makarov pistol that he acquired some time during his Navy service in and around WWII. I have fired it only a few times. The only thing that I can remember about it is that it has a large, single star on each grip. When I was with him trying to purchase ammo for it most retailers had never seen or heard of the round, 30 mauser. We found only one local gun/coin shop in Yuma, AZ where I used to live. The propriater said of course he had it, and that it was popular with the Mexican Feds. I left it at that, and did not want to pursue how he knew that.
I have spoken with co-workers here, and one fellow told me it was some sort of takarov/makarov 9mm. I have heard some poeple say that they are not good weapons. Others have said that they are great. I read one article in Guns n Ammo about them and there were many cons, especially that there is no rear sight on some models, but overall it was an "OK" pistol.
If I have the opportunity to relieve my father of the pistol, is it worth carrying and using? I have my CCW. Should something break on it, are parts easy to come by? I will most likely keep it for sentimental reasons. My father was an amphibious boat pilot at Normandy by the way.

 

[The Bushmaster]

A Photo would be nice...

 

[ozarkgunner]

Just did a quick search, and it looks like a Takerov. From what I remember it looks identicle to this http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg20-e.htm. It says the caliber is 7.62x25mm. I have one round for it and it says 30 mauser. Same round, different manufacturer?

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

Firstly, it sounds like you have a Tokarev TT-33. It's chambered for the 7.62x25mm, which is very similar to the .30 Mauser, but not identical.
Tokarev: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg20-e.htm
7.62x25mm ammo: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/7_62x25.html

The Makarov was the Soviets' replacement for the Tokarev. It is chambered in 9x18mm Round (not interchangable with any other 9mm round).
Makarov: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg21-e.htm

Spare parts for the Tokarev? Just buy another Tok: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Surplus_and_Used_Handguns.html

Personally, I wouldn't use the Tok for defense unless it was all I had. However, I think it makes for a wonderful fun/nostalgic gun.

 

[Deus Machina]

On that note, I have heard of 9mm Luger replacement barrels for Makarovs, never seen one myself, but a local FFL to me has a Chinese Tokarev with the 7.62x25 barrel and a replacement 9mm Luger one. Not sure if the extra magazine is 9mm luger, or if 7.62 Tokarev mags work well enough.

So it's possible to get them in 9mm, but I wouldn't call it common in more more modern times, and doubt they were even made that way by anyone in WWII.

SimpleIsGood is right--7.62 Tokarev and Mauser are nearly identical physically, but you should avoid firing them in guns not chambered for them. 7.62 Mauser may not cycle Tokarev's, and 7.62 Tokarev may very well be dangerous in Mausers.

From Lee's reloading manual, Mauser rounds' pressure hovers around 25000CUP, and Tokarev's around 41500CUP.

As for for defense, Tokarevs have a reputation for wicked penetration. But the bullet is small. Probably a good cheap SHTF gun, if you could find Gold Dots or something for it, but I'll gladly stick to 9mm, thanks.

 

[rcmodel]

First it is Tokarev, not takarov.

The Tokarev TT-33 was used by so many communist countries it is impossible to list them all.
But, one with stars on the grips sounds more like a red Chinese Type 54 version.

Second, it is a single-action pistol chambered for the 7.62x25mm Tokarev cartridge, not the very similar 7.63x25mm Mauser cartridge.
The .30 Mauser ammo can be fired in them, but it is not the 7.62x25mm Tokarev caliber the gun was made for.

Third, the Makarov is a more modern double-action design chambered in 9x18mm Makarov.

Forth, I would quiz your father further as to when & where he acquired the gun. It seems unlikely he got it from our WWII allies, either Russia or China.
We were not fighting with them until later in Korea.

Whichever gun you have, here is the correct ammo for it.

7.62x25mm Tokarev ammo:
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...3&categoryid=9271&categorystring=653***691***

9x18 Makarov ammo:
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...3&categoryId=7936&categoryString=653***691***

rc

 

[jonnyc]

Lots of historical misconception on the origin of the 7.62x25 cartridge.
Czarist officers loved the 7.63 Mauser pistol and they and the government bought lots of them along with lots of 7.63 Mauser ammo. That love affair continued with the Soviets. In the mid/late 1920s, the Soviets began producing ammo for their 7.63 Mauser pistols. At the same time, a number of Soviet designers submitted pistols for trial chambered in the Soviet-made 7.63 Mauser cartridge, now officially called a 7.62 pistol cartridge, since their other two infantry weapons, the Nagant 1895 and Mosin-Nagant 1891, had barrels of nominal 7.62 caliber. In 1930, along with the Tula-Tokarev 1930 pistol, the Soviet-made 7.63 Mauser round was officially named the 7.62x25 TT30 Pistol Cartridge.
Same round as the 7.63, with the same manufacturing differences you might find between a DWM 7.63 Mauser round, and a .30 Mauser round made by Winchester.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

On that note, I have heard of 9mm Luger replacement barrels for Makarovs,

There are .380 ACP (9mm Kurz) barrels readily available for the Makarov. The Makarov is a blow-back action, not a locked breech design. The .380 ACP is a mild cartridge suited for blow-back pistols.

The much hotter 9mm Luger is another story altogether. I suspect fitting a 9mm Luger barrel to a Mak and shooting it a bit would batter the pistol badly -- if it didn't fail altogether.

 

[winchester '97]

If it is a makarov, its an awsome little gun for the money. if its a tokarev, you basically have a colt/browning system semi auto in a round that has the cheapest surplus ammo out there for pistols and is on par with the 5.7x28mm in terms of little bullet at high speed factor. also most of them shoot way high. you can convert some tokarevs to 9mm, and i have seen a chinese one that would chamber and fire .38 super, 9mm largo, and 9mm para.

 

[DrakeGmbH]

The Tokarev pistol is more or less a copy of the Browning 1903 pistol but with the later 1911-type tilting barrel action. As jonnyc mentioned, the caliber choice was a result of favorable reports of the 7.63 Mauser cartridge used in the C.96 and 'Bolo' Mauser pistols during the October Revolution. Fedor Tokarev submitted the TT-30 pistol and it was accepted for service in 1930 but full production did not begin for a few more years.

The TT-33 differs from the TT-30 by having a solid backstrap - the TT-30 has a removable block in the backstrap which housed the trigger extension bar spring and disconnector spring.

These pistols have been produced in Russia, China, Poland, Romania, Hungary and Yugoslavia.

Attached is a chart I made from my collection showing the evolution of the 9mm Parabellum and 7.62 Tokarev cartridges from common ancestry.

 

[Mastiff]

The Tokarev is a great pistol, and it is one of my CCW pistols. It is very thin and conceals easily.
It is very easy to convert to shoot 9mm Luger through it, just change the barrel and barrel bushing. I have also converted a 9mm Luger barrel to fire the 9x23 Winchester round, which is the ballistic duplicate of the .357 Magnum. I get .357 Magnum power in an auto-loader. Less muzzle blast, higher capacity, faster reloading, less recoil. Pretty much a win-win situation.

Instructions for converting the barrel to fire 9x23 Winchester came from Clark the Destroyer:

From Clark:

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


I converted a Tokarev or two to 9x23mm by reaming out a 9x19mm barrel.
The Tokarevs are designed for the 7.62x25mm Tokarev round with an OAL of 1.35".

That is longer than the magazine design for 45acp at 1.275" or 9x19mm Luger at 1.169"

IIRC, the 9x23mm cartridge is not SAAMI registered, but most put the OAL at 1.245"

I have been shooting 9x23 in my Tokarev with:
158 gr Hornady XTP JHP and 16 gr of Power Pistol, 1.36"
In contrast, the Alliant max load for 357 magnum is:
158 gr Hornady XTP JHP and 8 gr of Power Pistol, 1.575"


For those who know what that means, they can see my Tokarev has gone atomic with 9x23mm

And:


Quote:
Could you share with me who you got to convert a Tok to 9x23?
1) Put a 9x23mm reamer in a lathe tailstock chuck and the barrel in the lathe headstock chuck and remove material with Sulfered cutting oil until a case will chamber with the pistols assembled.

2) Or, put a 9x23mm reamer in a drill chuck, and hold the drill chuck in the right hand and the barrel in the left hand, and give a twist of the wrist until as 9x23mm case will chamber.

3) Or, use a 115 piece drill set, a drill chuck, and two hands.
(Had a url to a drill size chart here)
As you can see, V drill will make a .3770" hole and a W drill will make a .3860" hole. The correct choice for lengthening the chamber is 25/64ths =.3906". This make the chamber .0060" sloppy, but that is fine.
The throat should be .357"
As you can see the T drill makes a .358" hole. that is .001" oversize
23/64 drill will make a .3594" hole, that is .0027" oversize.
U drill will make a .3680" hole, that is .011" oversize.
I find that I like the U drill better for getting the cartridge to fall in the chamber, but drill holes made with a twist of the wrist may be a few thousands small.
I seat a .358" LSWC bullet out to 1.36" and cut the throat until the cartridge falls in.

If you want 1.36" loads with 158 gr .357" and .358" bullets, then the 9x23mm reamer from Brownells is not going to do it all.