Talk to Me About the 9mm AR-15

[ATLDave]

I know a couple of competitive shooters who started with the CZ Scorpion and went to AR-9s because the CZ's very heavy bolt knocked the gun around too much in recoil to permit very fast splits with tight dispersion. They otherwise liked the gun, though, so if not being able to hold an A-zone at ~12 yards with sub-.20 splits is no big deal to you, that may not matter at all.

 

[Walkalong]

It's simply easier to be proficient with a PCC than a pistol. I would hazard to guess than even the best pistoleros are better with a PCC, assuming anywhere close to even practice time.

 

[ATLDave]

It's simply easier to be proficient with a PCC than a pistol. I would hazard to guess than even the best pistoleros are better with a PCC, assuming anywhere close to even practice time.

I have no doubt of that. People I used to be able to handle pretty regularly in USPSA when they were shooting handguns are now out of my reach with their PCC's! Officially, of course, there is no cross-division competition in USPSA, so my feelings are not hurt. Not officially hurt, anyway. But it makes very clear that PCC's are much easier to run hard and fast and still hit stuff with, given any appreciable amount of experience.

 

[rbernie]

Just to get back on their subject of weight – my NFA sourced 9mm weighs just at 7lb 8.2oz with empty magazine and optic/mount when configured with an MOE rifle stock, and is modestly lighter when configured with a CTR.

 

[Chuck R.]

I have no doubt of that. People I used to be able to handle pretty regularly in USPSA when they were shooting handguns are now out of my reach with their PCC's! Officially, of course, there is no cross-division competition in USPSA, so my feelings are not hurt. Not officially hurt, anyway. But it makes very clear that PCC's are much easier to run hard and fast and still hit stuff with, given any appreciable amount of experience.

For a while our IDPA club was using the 10 rd capacity for PCCs and it evened things up a little bit. That and some creative stage designs forcing shoulder transitions at cover points seemed to help.

 

[ATLDave]

For a while our IDPA club was using the 10 rd capacity for PCCs and it evened things up a little bit.

USPSA rules are that capacity is unlimited in PCC. Clubs cannot use local rules to the contrary.

In the first year of adoption, forcing reloads in stand-and-shoots was effective at slowing PCC'ers down relative to handgunners, but the PCC competitors have now figured out the efficient motions for reloading and its not materially slower than pistols. And they've put magwells on their guns.

USPSA doesn't use "cover" either, though we have lots of leaning positions at the edge of fault lines and walls/barriers. Those were very effective at slowing PCC'ers down relative to handgunners for a while, but then the PCC'ers spent time practicing weak-shoulder shooting and stuck multiple red-dots and/or lasers on their guns to ensure easy access to a sighting mechanism no matter how the rifle was turned. One of the nationally-competitive PCC USPSA/3Gun guys in my area has 3 dots on his gun plus a laser. With those devices so lightweight now, and no rule against it, it's very smart. I've seen him shoot from some crazily awkward positions and go 2-alpha very, very fast.

 

[mrmike7189]

All your points are solid, I just think the comment that PCC's just "increase hit probability and shootability inside of pistol ranges" doesn't reflect on the experiences of many who I know have run them. Even the pseudo-SBR pistols being used with much shorter barrels and sight radius (although almost all run some form of RDS optic), actually stretch their potential from 50 to 100 meters. I find I can run a course with a PCC/pistol and I'm far more accurate, faster on target with extremely more efficient with follow-up shots than I could every imagine with a handgun...there's really no comparison. I've stretched traditional 16" barrel PCC's out to 150 meters, which for me is the maximum distance I'm comfortable with; however, most dynamic range training is inside 100 meters, which I think is perfectly suitable for PCCs.

For me, these stretch your pistol range from 50-100 meters, while increasing hit probability, accuracy, and rapidly getting more rounds on target much faster. Having borrowed/run and seen the MP7 and the CZ Scorpion SMG's used on the range here in Afghanistan, I see zero comparison of something this size with a handgun, especially when engaging multiple targets while moving with ranges out to 100 meters (didn't even use full-auto; single shots or controlled pairs). I will eventual SBR a few of my PCCs simply due to size efficiency and performance inside that 100 meter range. Agreed that they are not a replacement for a rifle caliber carbine/rifle, nor are they a replacement for CCW. Very much a niche firearm, but they fill that niche extremely well.

ROCK6

well said
Long live the PCC's

 

[Walkalong]

One of the nationally-competitive PCC USPSA/3Gun guys in my area has 3 dots on his gun plus a laser. With those devices so lightweight now, and no rule against it, it's very smart. I've seen him shoot from some crazily awkward positions and go 2-alpha very, very fast.

Not a PCC, but it could be, light and fast.

 

[berettaprofessor]

I've successfully avoided/talked myself out of an AR 9 pistol for quite some time. Then, yesterday, I was in a pawn/gun shop when the clerk was unwrapping a package from Brownell's someone ordered.....an FM 9mm lower complete with a pistol buffer. That thing sure was pretty. Sigh.......