9mm carbine selection need help
- Thread starter socalbeachbum
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kBob
Member
Enjoying this thread. Long time since thinking about the Wilkinson Linda.....wish I could name a carbine after my daughter.
I am curious as to where one finds an Uzi Carbine these days. There is just something about a boat anchor with sights only ten inches apart and a 16 inch long barrel half exposed to space that just calls to some folks. I think it a fair SMG, but as a semi auto carbine....... no thanks.
My first experience with them as SMGs was when doing project partnership with the West German Army. They issued the Uzi to tank crews and other armored vehicle drivers. For a while they were used by the US Secret Service who cut an inch or so off the barrel of the SMG so it would fit a brief case. They were also used in the US military's General Officer escort program of the early 1980's. These were how ever actual SMGs. About the best use for the semi Uzis was when folks pre '86 converted them to SMGs. They were a lot harder to convert than folks claimed on TV and in movies.
-kBob
I am curious as to where one finds an Uzi Carbine these days. There is just something about a boat anchor with sights only ten inches apart and a 16 inch long barrel half exposed to space that just calls to some folks. I think it a fair SMG, but as a semi auto carbine....... no thanks.
My first experience with them as SMGs was when doing project partnership with the West German Army. They issued the Uzi to tank crews and other armored vehicle drivers. For a while they were used by the US Secret Service who cut an inch or so off the barrel of the SMG so it would fit a brief case. They were also used in the US military's General Officer escort program of the early 1980's. These were how ever actual SMGs. About the best use for the semi Uzis was when folks pre '86 converted them to SMGs. They were a lot harder to convert than folks claimed on TV and in movies.
-kBob
greyling22
Member
I'd get a nano. $550 bucks for a 9mm AR that takes glock mags. http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ri0034.aspx
chris in va
Member
A couple reasons. I can cast and reload 9mm cheaper than storebought 22lr, and they are vastly less expensive than even my 223 reloads.
I also find controls easier to use on my CX4. Personal preference. Also nothing protrudes to get caught on clothing, etc.
It's quiet(er). I used mine in a carbine match and everyone asked if it was a 22. I can plink away all day at a friend's property and not worry about the distant neighbors getting irate.
With good HD ammo I see a ~200fps gain from the 16" barrel over my CZP01. 1400fps is not unheard of, and I never hear anybody say the 357 magnum to be ineffective...which has the same velocity.
minutemen1776
Member
I have a 9mm CMMG AR15 carbine. It's a great gun. Everyone who shoots mine wants one of their own. I've also had a Ruger PC9, but I sold it when prices spiked. It's a good gun, too, but not nearly as nice as the CMMG. The Ruger's trigger was just BAD, and the heavy bolt made shooting 9mm rounds a lot more jarring than you'd imagine.
As an aside, I see that the obligatory "why a 9mm carbine?" question has already been asked and answered. That always seems to come up on these threads, often dominating everything else.
As an aside, I see that the obligatory "why a 9mm carbine?" question has already been asked and answered. That always seems to come up on these threads, often dominating everything else.
I'm curious if anyone has any experience with the M1 9mm carbine? I've wondered for awhile it if blows back in your face a lot, but I've never met anyone who has shot one. Most blowback guns keep the bolt enclosed in the receiver, and it gets pretty messy in there since the case is extracted with some residual pressure that barks out of the chamber on extraction/ejection. With an open M1 action, it seems like the chamber blow-back would be right in your face.
wally
Member
I'd never again buy anything from Chiappa so I'll never have any way of knowing, but I suspect what you are talking about could very well be an issue.
That large round thing on the side of the ejection port on the 9mm AR carbines is usually though to be a brass deflector, but in fact its a gas deflector so you don't get a face full of gas when the empty ejects -- especially when shooting left handed.
MCgunner
Member
Yes, with my M1 22 I can feel a little speck of escaped particle on my forehead now and then. I'd expect with the 9, it might be more a problem. I wear glasses, though, so I never forget to put 'em on.
But, yeah, I bet the 9 does have a might more escaping gas from the action. I guess it'd been more expensive to design the gun after the original M1 Carbine, a gas gun, but it'd work better.If I get another M1 Carbine, it'll be a .30 M1 Carbine.
The .22 is great fun, though, and it is the spittin' image of the original. For accuracy, it's a little ammo picky, but most .22s are. I'd buy it again if I had it to do over, put it that way, but I'm not so sure about the 9mm version and your concern is one of the reasons. I also don't like the look of it with aa Beretta mag sticking out, just sorta detracts from the look.
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socalbeachbum
Member
I like the M1 carbine style, wish I could find one locally to test fire.
I shot the Just Right carbine in 9mm last night, it is as accurate as the AR-15 in 9mm, but I'd prefer the AR-15. The Just Right has no bolt holdback automatically when empty, you have to rack the bolt manually. Not a big deal, but...
Thinking of converting my 5.5mm AR pistol to 9mm
I shot the Just Right carbine in 9mm last night, it is as accurate as the AR-15 in 9mm, but I'd prefer the AR-15. The Just Right has no bolt holdback automatically when empty, you have to rack the bolt manually. Not a big deal, but...
Thinking of converting my 5.5mm AR pistol to 9mm
BCRider
Member
Socal', it sounds from your posts here that you are looking more for a fun to shoot range or field gun than something for HD.
I've shot a bunch of handgun carbines. And so far I've avoided buying one. So I suspect that my feelings can be viewed as unsullied by personal ownership...
For use as a defensive tool that puts rounds on target without fuss you can't beat the Beretta Storm or the older HK design that I shot. But along with this efficiency of use comes a certain amount of "boring". They are superb tools but they both felt like I was shooting rimfire guns for all the kick and excitement they produced.
I've shot a couple of 9mm AR setups as well. And they too produce the same efficiency and low recoil with no fuss as the Beretta and HK's. And so they were a trifle underwhelming for their shooting experience even if they are a superb shooting tool.
Then I got to shoot a JR Carbine and a Keltec Sub2000. Both are rough, barky and crude. And both put the fun back into range shooting and plinking.
So you need to figure out what your main use of this will be and then go shopping accordingly.
Oh, and all of them shot equally well for me in terms of accuracy. Which means that it was MY accuracy which was the defining limit and not the guns in any case.
For use in matches I'd go for the smooth and fastly accurate shooting guns like the Beretta, HK or AR conversion. When there's a timer sitting by your ear or something went bump in the night it's time for clean cold efficiency. But for general plinking and giggles I'd opt for one of the rougher cycling guns just to put some fun back into the day.
I've shot a bunch of handgun carbines. And so far I've avoided buying one. So I suspect that my feelings can be viewed as unsullied by personal ownership...
For use as a defensive tool that puts rounds on target without fuss you can't beat the Beretta Storm or the older HK design that I shot. But along with this efficiency of use comes a certain amount of "boring". They are superb tools but they both felt like I was shooting rimfire guns for all the kick and excitement they produced.
I've shot a couple of 9mm AR setups as well. And they too produce the same efficiency and low recoil with no fuss as the Beretta and HK's. And so they were a trifle underwhelming for their shooting experience even if they are a superb shooting tool.
Then I got to shoot a JR Carbine and a Keltec Sub2000. Both are rough, barky and crude. And both put the fun back into range shooting and plinking.
So you need to figure out what your main use of this will be and then go shopping accordingly.
Oh, and all of them shot equally well for me in terms of accuracy. Which means that it was MY accuracy which was the defining limit and not the guns in any case.
For use in matches I'd go for the smooth and fastly accurate shooting guns like the Beretta, HK or AR conversion. When there's a timer sitting by your ear or something went bump in the night it's time for clean cold efficiency. But for general plinking and giggles I'd opt for one of the rougher cycling guns just to put some fun back into the day.
usp9
Member
The Beretta I picked up for $450 a few years ago proved to be a lot of fun, easy to take care of and very reliable. With some type of optic, the gun is an outright blast. For about $600 new, the Beretta seems to be a good value, IMHO.
rjrivero
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I have a couple 9mm AR's built that use Glock Magazines. While they run fine, they are blow back 9mm rifles. I prefer the MP5 delayed blowback simply because they sound better suppressed. Also take into consideration that the "gains" from a longer barrel are limited. Blow back 9mm's max out about 8" and then start to slow down beyond that. My 16" AR upper chronos slower than my 8" barrel because of the blow back action. The bottle is uncorked before the round leaves the bore.
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socalbeachbum
Member
well, I'll have to have a look at the Beretta then. The M1 carbine by Citadel does call me as I have a Beretta 92A1 and the Citadel uses the same magazine I'm told.
Not sure I'd ever be in a firefight where I need to resort to my pistol mags when the walkers are coming through the fenceline, but you know you think of simplification, carrying cans of 9mm, sharing mags, etc.
I'm told the Beretta CX does not use the PX4 mags, and I'm not sure if there is any commonality in Beretta mags.
I will say the AR in 9mm just feels natural to me, maybe it's the comfort of the familiar spring going sprong in my ear
Not sure I'd ever be in a firefight where I need to resort to my pistol mags when the walkers are coming through the fenceline, but you know you think of simplification, carrying cans of 9mm, sharing mags, etc.
I'm told the Beretta CX does not use the PX4 mags, and I'm not sure if there is any commonality in Beretta mags.
I will say the AR in 9mm just feels natural to me, maybe it's the comfort of the familiar spring going sprong in my ear
The figures I gave through the 16-inch Colt upped the ante over a standard pistol, as mentioned.
I've never chronoed an 8-inch 9mm barrel, but the 16-inchers do gain & even a hundred FPS can be a helpful boost.
That Colt certainly shot tighter at 100 yards than any box-stock Glock I ever encountered could.
Faster velocities can blow up lighter bullets, though.
I've settled on the 147s for carry when the Storm, with an Aimpoint T2 on it, is up & running.
Denis
I've never chronoed an 8-inch 9mm barrel, but the 16-inchers do gain & even a hundred FPS can be a helpful boost.
That Colt certainly shot tighter at 100 yards than any box-stock Glock I ever encountered could.
Faster velocities can blow up lighter bullets, though.
I've settled on the 147s for carry when the Storm, with an Aimpoint T2 on it, is up & running.
Denis
bikemutt
Member
I think you are correct. I had the LGS try a PX4 mag in a CX4; no-go.
bikemutt
Member
Sorry if this one was already mentioned but what I recall being the grail 9mm carbine was the one made by Lone Wolf Distributing, they run off Glock mags. I just could never find both the lower and upper in stock at any time, and they aren't cheap.
I have handled one though, it seems to be a well made weapon.
I have handled one though, it seems to be a well made weapon.
I was considering a carbine to add to my HD compliment, and just for fun. I started looking at 9MM carbines, but saw their prices were well over $500 for even a Keltec. I like the Beretta CX4 Storm, but like many others it seems a bit chinzy, although I am sure it shoots just fine.
I ended up biting the bullet and spending the extra money for a G.I. M1 Carbine. Yes they have gotten pricey, but it fills the niche as .30 Carbine is essentially a hot pistol round anyway, and I am reloading for it, so ammo isn't an issue.
I ended up biting the bullet and spending the extra money for a G.I. M1 Carbine. Yes they have gotten pricey, but it fills the niche as .30 Carbine is essentially a hot pistol round anyway, and I am reloading for it, so ammo isn't an issue.
greyling22
Member
I was under the impression that lone wolf did not offer last round bolt hold open, and that quarter circle 10 was the grail. But I have been known to be wrong. Just ask my wife.
snapshot762
Member
The CX4 can use PX4 mags. Beretta made different "versions" of the CX4, basically the same gun but with a different mag well adapter that either uses Beretta 92 mags or PX4 mags. A CX4 that takes 92 magazines can be converted to use PX4 mags and vice versa by simply changing the mag well insert (about a $20 part).
I picked up a CX4 last fall and it has quickly become a favorite of mine. It is an accurate, reliable and really fun gun to shoot!
Harrington-Richardson
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I have the Uzi carbine and Mini Machine Pistol, both Mod. 45 and 9mm / 45 ACP convertible. Unless you're pulling the trigger more than once, the 9mm is understated as a carbine caliber.
Locally the .44 mag. Marlin 1894S is considered "the hillbilly assault rifle." 10 rd. lever action, short, light, reliable.
Locally the .44 mag. Marlin 1894S is considered "the hillbilly assault rifle." 10 rd. lever action, short, light, reliable.
msmp5
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I would generally have a preference for a rifle caliber carbine over a pistol caliber carbine for HD. But, these would be my choices in 9mm if I chose not to have a rifle caliber weapon (in this order of preference):
1. HK94 (if you have lots of $$ to spend)
2. Colt AR in 9mm
3. Marlin Camp Carbine
I've had and shot all three over the decades, only have the Marlin left. I think the HK94 is the best shooting gun of those three, but it's also the most expensive, and more of a collectors gun now than a shooter. The Marlin is a fun little carbine, and less expensive, but they are getting a bit harder to find now I think.
1. HK94 (if you have lots of $$ to spend)
2. Colt AR in 9mm
3. Marlin Camp Carbine
I've had and shot all three over the decades, only have the Marlin left. I think the HK94 is the best shooting gun of those three, but it's also the most expensive, and more of a collectors gun now than a shooter. The Marlin is a fun little carbine, and less expensive, but they are getting a bit harder to find now I think.
Domino
Member
TNW ASR (Aero Survival Rifle)
- Uses Glock Mags
- Very Reliable
- Very Durable (Aluminum and Steel construction)
- Convertible to 40 and 45 (soon to be 22LR and 22 Magnum)
- Quick change barrel
- Easy to mount optics/sights
- Easy to SBR
- Easy to Suppress
- Uses AR furniture
- Sold as a Pistol or Rifle
I sold my Sub 2000 after getting mine...
http://www.tnwfirearms.com/category-s/1825.htm
- Uses Glock Mags
- Very Reliable
- Very Durable (Aluminum and Steel construction)
- Convertible to 40 and 45 (soon to be 22LR and 22 Magnum)
- Quick change barrel
- Easy to mount optics/sights
- Easy to SBR
- Easy to Suppress
- Uses AR furniture
- Sold as a Pistol or Rifle
I sold my Sub 2000 after getting mine...
http://www.tnwfirearms.com/category-s/1825.htm
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Wildbillz
Member
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2010
- Messages
- 1,024
For the past several years I have been looking for a decent 9mm carbine myself. I want it just for cheap blasting at the range. I have a preference for one that would have a common and cheap mag with a decent capacity.
The Sterling would be nice but they seem to have disappeared from the market.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...nternational-wise-lite-arms-sterling-sporter/
There were several STEN's over the years but they were not made in large enough numbers to be common to the market.
http://www.valkyriearms.com/sten.html
the Century Uzi seems like an option but the Century part may be a concern.
Taurus had one out for a year or two that looked good but you couldn't get lager capacity mags for it. Looked good with the subgun stock, but alas it seems to have been discontinued.
http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=889&category=Rifle
The H&K 94 well the price puts that one out of the running.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=482133211
So I am still looking and will most likely end up with something like the Nano or the JRC.
WB
The Sterling would be nice but they seem to have disappeared from the market.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...nternational-wise-lite-arms-sterling-sporter/
There were several STEN's over the years but they were not made in large enough numbers to be common to the market.
http://www.valkyriearms.com/sten.html
the Century Uzi seems like an option but the Century part may be a concern.
Taurus had one out for a year or two that looked good but you couldn't get lager capacity mags for it. Looked good with the subgun stock, but alas it seems to have been discontinued.
http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=889&category=Rifle
The H&K 94 well the price puts that one out of the running.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=482133211
So I am still looking and will most likely end up with something like the Nano or the JRC.
WB
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