tall tales

[Cee Zee]

Can somebody please explain "calling your shot". Is this the time from trigger pull to the point an ingnasecond afterwards when you know where the shot is going to land, and you blurt it out.... in silence? Well?

Actually it take some time for a bullet to travel 600 yards. It could be enough time to call where that bullet would hit. I've not seen it done but I wouldn't be shocked if it could be done.

Are you Joe Friedrich????

LOL that's a laugher. I am not Joe but I do know Joe. And yes he is an incredible shooter. He's also a very good person.

But Joe is hardly the only great shooter around. And some of the stuff on Youtube would be very hard to fake unless you were just extremely good at special effects. clayne's videos are obviously not faked and he is obviously a gifted shooter. There are actually a lot of good shooters on this board. But there are too many naysayers IMO. People are so suspicious of the world. Not everyone is out to get over on you. Not everyone needs to feel like they're way better than other people. A lot of good shooters think that it's just something that God blessed them with and that other people can do other things equally well. For example I wouldn't want someone to send me some plutonium and ask me to build a bomb. I'd be dead the first day. Some people know how to do that stuff. I sure as heck ain't one of them. We all have things we're good at doing and for some that is shooting and for others it isn't shooting. Those people often judge what others say by what they themselves are capable of doing. Just like I can't draw and shoot 2 balloons 8 feet apart before a person even knows I drew my pistol. But anyone that thinks Bob Munden couldn't do that is ignoring a huge body of evidence that he could. He won fast draw competitions for example The other competitors didn't just roll over and play dead. He had to win. It would be like me trying to play QB for the NE Patriots. If I made it through one play alive I'd be amazed.

Give your fellow shooter a chance. I'm going to post a target I shot a while back just as an example. You can claim I fixed it or photoshoped it or whatever. I know that didn't happen. I also know there are 9 shots at different targets on that one sheet that could all be covered by a dime if they were on the same target. I have a lot of targets like this. No I can't do it every time but I can do it often. I wish I could tell you everything I know and offer up some proof that is nearly ironclad but I have been sworn to secrecy about it. I don't care if people believe that either. It's true. It really isn't such a big deal anyway. Everyone has talents. Anyway here's the target I mentioned. I can post a bunch of these if you like. If you think I'm so desperate for attention that I sit around and forge targets all I can say is I'm glad I'm not that cynical. If you knew some of the things I know about people you wouldn't be so quick to judge. Remember if I lined up a dime at the center of every target then every shot would be covered. That makes for a group size of about halfway between a quarter inch and eighth inch or so. Trust me I'm not the best shooter on this board either. Not even close.

 

[jlr1962]

I guess I didn't see the distance from your target, or the gun in you previous post. Not one person that has claimed to shoot to a given accuracy has been able to come even close in person.

Pistol - If I ever shot a 1" group @ 25 yard, 15 round magazine, I would frame it and put it on my office wall. I have never seen it done in person. From what I see, the $$$ spent on pistols has little to do with accuracy. Here comes the flames.

Rifle - IF I ever shot a .5", 20 round group of 308 ammo @ 100 yards, anybody that was not there would never hear me speak of it. Nobody would believe me. What sucks is that I see 2 people that do this regularly. They do handload. Their equipment is 10 times the price of mine. But still....

 

[greywolf444]

Cee Zee--- I'm in missouri. $5 bucks shuts out to braggers. Some can make such shots, but, they ain't the ones. I even offered to let them pick which rifle I would use. No bench rests-- hunting shots only. No walking them in until that one counts. Around here they all love to talk long range. No one seems to have a range where they pratice such a shot, tho. A rolled up feed store coat on the tailgate is the best they seem to do. 700-900 yards is their average deer distance. yeah, right. With whatever ammo is cheapest at farm and home with the rifle they bought at a farm sale for cheap. I'm not saying it can't be done by a select few, I'm saying that these aren't those guys.

 

[browningguy]

Well back to the OP's discussion, I'd say you are exaggerating even more than the posts you complain about. I hardly ever see that many discussions that are that far out of touch with reality.

Reality - with just a modicum of practice and talent you can shoot actual groups at 50 yards with some stock pistols. I practice with my 3 gun pistols at 50 yards frequently because we often have to shoot a long range pistol shot or two. But you only have to hit a steel circle that's 6-12" diameter, so you don't have to be really good. My Witness Elite Match's in .40 and my Sig X6 9mm will do it almost every shot. And the guys I shoot with that are actually good can do that well at 100 yards.

Reality - most commercial AR's are 2-3 moa guns, but a few volume manufacturers, RRA comes to mind, consistently put out 1/2 - 1 moa rifles. I can't shoot irons any more but a couple of the 3 gun guys I shoot with have no problem getting hits on 6" plates out to 600 yards. And there are still regular competitions for rifles at 600 yards where the AR is often the winning gun.

Methinks there is a lot of whining by people that just can't shoot, so everyone else must be faking it. Get out to an IPSC or even regional IDPA match and you'll find there are people that shoot that well, they just spend a lot more time practicing.

 

[Cee Zee]

I guess I didn't see the distance from your target, or the gun in you previous post. Not one person that has claimed to shoot to a given accuracy has been able to come even close in person.

The target would have been shot at 50 yards. I don't know what rifle I used. Most likely it was either my CZ 453 or my Savage MkIIBTV. As for "not one person" how would you even know that? I try to give you guys some real information and all you can do is throw water on it. Well I feel sorry for you friend. I really do. And this stuff from greywolf444 about "shuts out to braggers". What does that even mean? If you expect anyone to shoot the kind of target I posted from a "hunting shot" with no rest then you'll be waiting a very long time. No one I know claims to do such things. I've never seen that kind of claim on this board. But of course you're likely insinuating that I'm lying about what I shot here. Feel free to think that. It's no skin off my nose. I don't need you to believe me. I actually thought people might learn to be less cynical. You have no idea what I can do friend and your haughty "$5" challenge isn't enough to make me walk out in the back yard much less travel to Missouri.

BTW I never claimed to shoot like I did on that target all the time. I said I did it often. Big difference. And somewhere in this thread I pointed out that I haven't been able to practice for almost exactly 2 years because of the ammo shortage. If you want to know why I was able to shoot like I was then I invite to check out this photo. That's me shooting at my target 50 yards away. It's in my yard. That shiny stuff on the ground is a pile of spent .22 rounds. Now imagine a river of those running over the hill where the rain has washed them away. I have photos of that too if you'd like to see them. It takes practice. Lots and lots of practice. I haven't been able to do much of that but give me a month and I'll be able to shoot a pretty good target "if" the weather is good enough so I can get out and shoot which isn't likely in December in Ohio.

I'm not here to upstage or embarrass anyone. People have helped me so I thought I would try to do the same. People can shoot if they practice. That probably includes you although there are some that just don't have what it takes. Those people are rare in my experience. Most people can learn to shoot pretty well IMO. In this photo you can see that my makeshift bench is solid enough and the distance is clearly what I said (measured it) and I even have my sidekick/mascot with me who loves shooting as much as I do. She gets fighting mad if I go shooting without her. If you look you'll see that river of brass as it starts over the hill. Trust me that's just the tip of the iceberg. Yes I did intend to clean that up some day but a busted water line made it a moot point anyway. It's all buried now for the most part. I don't even live there now although I still own the house and hope to get back there soon. But don't let my hillbilly style bench rest fool you. It works as well as the concrete ones. I've shot from those a lot too. Mostly try to keep an open mind. What do I have to gain by coming here lying? Do you think it really makes my motor run to fool a bunch of gun people? Why? Try not to be so cynical. What you see here is me, my cat, my Savage rifle, and some Wolf ammo and off in the distance you'll see my target. It's 50 yards away. It's that big white square thing and no I'm not just shooting a big sign like that. I have targets hung on it either with staples or glued. If we had the right view you could see my steel targets there too. Or what's left of them after I shot the targets off them. I did that shooting off hand from about 40 yards mostly with my Marlin 795 or one of a half dozen or so other rimfire rifles I have.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I once made a suborbital squirrel kill back in my younger days on a bet. Squirrel treed in a big ole Oak tree about 30 yards to the East.

I calculated windage, took into consideration the effects of fluctuations in gravitational fields over terrain, and factored in solar wind, then I lined up my shot to the west.

Picked that sucker out of the tree neat as you please!

 

[Cee Zee]

I calculated windage, took into consideration the effects of fluctuations in gravitational fields over terrain, and factored in solar wind, then I lined up my shot to the west.

If you didn't factor in the muon neutrino effect then I'm not buying your story. Sure they pass through most things but not lead or any of the super dense metals. Your story is just bunk. You couldn't possibly have gotten within an inch of that squirrel without inventing a forumula for calculating muon neutrino influence (and the corresponding negative particle influence) and then applying that formula to your shot. I'm calling "bull' on this one.

 

[ljnowell]

Is this thing still going? I think it's time we lead this horse out to pasture and shoot it with an over the shoulder mirror shot through a bending 90 degree tube, bounced off a rock and through the left rear flank coming out the right nostril.

 

[redneck2]

Can somebody please explain "calling your shot". Is this the time from trigger pull to the point an in a second and afterwards when you know where the shot is going to land, and you blurt it out....

If you target shoot a lot, you'll most times be able to tell where the sights were when the trigger broke. You'll need an accurate rifle with good ammo so that the shots aren't random. They need to end up where you were aiming when the gun fired.

Most times you can't see the bullet holes until you are at the target, but good shooters can many times call where they hit

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

If you didn't factor in the muon neutrino effect then I'm not buying your story. Sure they pass through most things but not lead or any of the super dense metals. Your story is just bunk. You couldn't possibly have gotten within an inch of that squirrel without inventing a forumula for calculating muon neutrino influence (and the corresponding negative particle influence) and then applying that formula to your shot. I'm calling "bull' on this one.

Yeah, but the muon neutrino effect was offset by the residual subspace shockwave reverberation from the SN 1978A supernova event. It's simple, really.

Squirrel never had a chance.

 

[jlr1962]

Browningguy, it would be worth the 4 hour drive to Houston to see you shoot. As much as I dislike Houston, I want to see somebody hit a 50 yard target consistently with a pistol. I have not even seen it at 25. The best pistol shooter I have seen might hit paper 5 or 6 times out of 7 or 8 shots. The ranges I shoot at here don't even allow pistols on their 50 yard ranges. I was informed of 1 range that does allow 50 yard pistol, but I have not been there. I guess that is where all of the real shooters shoot. I don't understand where you think I exaggerated. I attempt to not make any kind of claims that would be considered questionable. Do you think that it is impossible to shoot as bad as I do? I will try to go to a match soon.

 

[Cee Zee]

Yeah, but the muon neutrino effect was offset by the residual subspace shockwave reverberation from the SN 1978A supernova event. It's simple, really.

OK so you did invent a way to account for the muon neutrino effect and you applied it to your calculations. You should have said that in your first post.

 

[jlr1962]

Gettin deep here.

 

[Ankeny]

Can somebody please explain "calling your shot". Is this the time from trigger pull to the point an ingnasecond afterwards when you know where the shot is going to land, and you blurt it out.... in silence? Well?

That's pretty much calling your shot in a nutshell. At the instant the gun fires, the shooter knows the position of the sights and can "call" where the shot will impact. The rifle shooter I am thinking about is G. David Tubb.

I do understand that there is a difference between what shooters can do "cold and on demand" vs. their best efforts. Matche/competion performance over the long haul are good indicators of "on demand" shooting.

For instance, the tacticool shooters that I hang with generally consider a 2 moa target to be a gimme under field conditions out to 600 yards under "decent" field conditions. Decent being anything less than a hurricane. That's a realistic expectation to do a one shot hit on a 12 inch circle proned out on a hill top at 600 yards.

I expect sub moa from every rifle I own when I go to the range. Do I always get sub moa? Nope, but I do the vast majority of the time. An 8 inch circle at 600 yards is a piece of cake (from a bench) with all of my long range rifles, including those on an AR platform.

Yesterday I missed several shots at three different elk at under 400 yards. Two were around 150 yards. If it were not for having a friend with me who finally told me I was shooting a couple of feet high at 200 yards, I never would have figured out my turret was one revolution too high. Cotton picking Zeiss scopes turn back a$$wards and I don't have a zero stop. Dialed down one turn and bang flop. Proof that ability and gear can not replace stoopid.

 

[X-Rap]

Gettin deep here.

Yea very on topic for Tall Tales.
I've heard folks claim can shoot sparrows and and bats in mid flight with a 22, at least that hasn't been said here. Yet!!!!

 

[Cee Zee]

I've heard folks claim can shoot sparrows and and bats in mid flight with a 22, at least that hasn't been said here. Yet!!!!

Don't people shoot ducks flying much higher than bats and sparrows? Yes they use shotguns but surely you've heard of people shooting clays with a .22 in mid-flight. So why is it you think shooting a low flying sparrow is so much harder? Plus if you can get a laser sight on anything you can shoot it, can't you? "Oh ye of little faith."

Here's a guy shooting clays in the air with a .22.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31rgIA-k4wY

Here's a guy shooting a pigeon in the air with an air rifle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SudalUNcWtg

There are stories all over the net about this BTW. Have you ever hunted doves? Grouse? Are you not familiar with quail hunting. Yes people do these things with a shotgun but if you've ever hunted dove or grouse you will know they fly very fast and usually very low which means you have to react faster.

I don't get people not knowing about guns and hunting on a board like this. I really don't. If you put a laser sight on a bat you can shoot it. Do you ever see video of flying birds? Do you realize that's almost the same as aiming at them to shoot one? But you come around obviously trying to start trouble. I think you just aren't all that familiar with guns to be honest. Sure you might shoot at a range. That's a lot different than hunting. My brother shot a hummingbird with a BB gun while it was flying. Yes he was a jerk for doing it and he actually knew he was. But he had vowed to kill one of every type bird on our farm that could be killed with a BB gun. He didn't shoot any hawks, crows or owls obviously. But he did kill a hummingbird and there was no feeder involved. We only saw one maybe once or twice a summer. Did you ever see video of Annie Oakley and the things she did with a .22? But a far easier shot is impossible for someone here??? On this web page you'll find a magazine article from 1913 that talks about hunting ducks with a .22. Do you understand how much harder that would be than shooting a sparrow flying low and relatively slow?

I grew up with guns. They were essential to our lives from putting food on the table to defending us from threats including 2 legged and 4 legged varieties not to mention the ones that devoured our crops and made plowing fields unsafe. There were also some ideas we had that I have learned since that weren't true. But when your dad tells you something when you're 10 you tend to believe him. I think all of us have learned some things since then no matter where we came from. But we had ideas about bats being a nuisance because of them nesting in houses and the threat of rabies. So we shot them. We shot a lot of them with shotguns. If you shoot enough of them I can easily see it being possible to shoot one with a .22 especially if it had a laser zeroed on it. But even without a laser it's possible. But of course you won't think so. That's just your limited knowledge friend. Look around the net. There are countless stories of people shooting flying birds with a rifle. It happens.

 

[ljnowell]

Browningguy, it would be worth the 4 hour drive to Houston to see you shoot. As much as I dislike Houston, I want to see somebody hit a 50 yard target consistently with a pistol. I have not even seen it at 25. The best pistol shooter I have seen might hit paper 5 or 6 times out of 7 or 8 shots. The ranges I shoot at here don't even allow pistols on their 50 yard ranges. I was informed of 1 range that does allow 50 yard pistol, but I have not been there. I guess that is where all of the real shooters shoot. I don't understand where you think I exaggerated. I attempt to not make any kind of claims that would be considered questionable. Do you think that it is impossible to shoot as bad as I do? I will try to go to a match soon.

Find a bullseye match in your area. You can see people doing exactly what you describe.

 

[browningguy]

Jlr, come on down, I shoot about every other Saturday at ASC. I can't believe you've never seen a bullseye match, those guys are shooting little bitty groups at 50 yards. Most of them are using red dots these days but back in the 70 's we just used irons.

Google up some bullseye or NRA conventional pistol scores and you'll be amazed.

 

[X-Rap]

Just getting a laser on a bat would be an accomplishment but I still doubt you would hit it. Your sighting logic leaves out a fundamental law of wing shooting that I'm sure some of the trap and skeet shooters will vouch for. Makes me question if you are the one who doesn't understand shooting. Hitting laziness with a single projectile and fast flying doves and bats are worlds apart.
Do you use some kind of visible beam laser?

 

[X-Rap]

Meant clay birds not laziness , not sure how the phone did that.

 

[Cee Zee]

You don't have to lead a bat that's flying 10 foot away from you. And have you ever even tried any of this stuff? How do you know it isn't possible? Guessing? I know it is possible and I'm not guessing. And sometimes birds fly straight away from you too. So shooting those clays isn't so much different. In fact birds generally do fly straight away from you if you scare them.

Shooting grouse requires extreme competence with a shotgun. Many of the shots are at close flying birds and dove are just the same. So there isn't a lot of spread with the shot involved. Have you ever hunted either? I certainly have. Unless you catch a grouse sitting on the ground they are "very" hard to shoot with a shotgun. And people don't shoot them on the ground. There's no sport to that. Have you ever been near a grouse that took off flying? They make a sudden, loud noise that startles almost everyone the first time they hear it. And you have about half a second to line up your shot and fire. Trust me shooting bats compared to that is a piece of cake. Just for the record I've never hit a grouse but I haven't hunted them in probably 45 years. I didn't like it because they were too dang hard to hit. Same with doves. A stupid dove will fly past you over and over again trying to get back to it's nest. They are really frustrating. You can see them coming and still miss them with a shotgun. But other people manage to shoot them.

Face it your making a mountain out of a mole hill. It is possible to shoot small birds in the air. For pity's sake I showed you video of a guy shooting a flying pigeon with an air rifle from a long distance. How much proof do you need?????

BTW. Just curious. Why do you think they make "bird shot" for .22's? Sure it's a shot shell but if you've ever shot those rounds you'll know they have to be in a very tight group to do any damage to anything.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Winc...t-Ammunition-with-Dry-Storage-Box/1273666.uts

 

[redneck2]

it would be worth the 4 hour drive to Houston to see you shoot. As much as I dislike Houston, I want to see somebody hit a 50 yard target consistently with a pistol. I have not even seen it at 25. The best pistol shooter I have seen might hit paper 5 or 6 times out of 7 or 8 shots. The ranges I shoot at here don't even allow pistols on their 50 yard ranges. I was informed of 1 range that does allow 50 yard pistol, but I have not been there. I guess that is where all of the real shooters shoot. I don't understand where you think I exaggerated. I attempt to not make any kind of claims that would be considered questionable. Do you think that it is impossible to shoot as bad as I do? I will try to go to a match soon

i've seen guys do this. You most likely don't have to drive four hours. Just find somebody in your area that can really shoot. I had a really high end Busseye .45. I'm not nearly good enough to use the accuracy so I sold it. Guaranteed to shoot 1" at 50 yds

I'll give you a quick hint.......look at the number of posts somebody has here. Browning guy and CeeZee have thousands. Usually if somebody is a BS'er he will get called out early and leave to find a board that will tolerate his nonsense.

 

[Cee Zee]

Browning guy and CeeZee have thousands. Usually if somebody is a BS'er he will get called out early and leave to find a board that will tolerate his nonsense.

I appreciate the show of support but trust me I've been called out many times. I just refuse to let the nay sayers run me off because I know I don't lie about anything. I could make a mistake now and then but nothing intentional.

People are so cynical. I guess it's tv and the stuff they have seen from other humans. But it isn't always that way. The country is full of churches. Do people really think all those people show up for church and don't believe the teachings and try to live by them? I'm sure there are plenty like that. But there are also plenty that try very hard to walk the straight and narrow. None of us are perfect but the help of the Lord most of us manage to stay pretty close to the line. Mainly we're forgiven of course but we also want very much to do it right. Our tempers might get the best of us at times and we might succumb to the natural attractions we have but not often. Not often at all. I don't live my life like a Hollywood "anything goes" celebrity type. I try very hard to walk the path laid out for us by our Lord. I don't generally go this route on this board because it's not about such things here. But when people question your integrity it matters. My relationship with God plays a big part in what I do. I wish I could do it better than I do but I do NOT come here lying about what I do. The only time you would see me lie deliberately would be if it was the lesser of two evils like for example if it meant I would lose my job and my ability to support my family if I didn't say what the boss told me to say to a customer. Even then there would have to be a limit on it. That's never come up for me actually but it was the topic of a sunday school lesson I sat through once. I have thought about it since and although I would hate doing it I probably would if it meant not losing my ability to feed my kids or something. Sometimes we are forced to make hard choices. This isn't one of those times.

 

[X-Rap]

Your comment about doves trying to return to their nests speak volumes about your hunting knowledge, that and the comment about quitting dove and grouse hunting because they were to hard to hit but you shoot bats on the fly?
Why not just use the laser on the dove and grouse too?

 

[Cee Zee]

If you haven't seen doves flying past you again and again you haven't been dove hunting. Doves always circle when released. People actually keep doves trained to return to their roost after being released. They're used for different events. It only works because that is the natural behavior of doves.

And I don't hunt doves or grouse. I believe I said that. If I did I don't think I could get a laser on a grouse nearly fast enough because once they fly they're gone. Doves might be another matter. If I had any inclination at all to hunt them I might well consider using a laser. But most likely it wouldn't work because you have to lead a dove. The trick to shooting a bat is to shoot it between cuts. They fly close enough to you at times that the lead time needed just enough to mean you have aim a laser in front of them. The bullet gets there before they get ahead of the aim.

I can't believe you don't know that doves circle. This is why I don't like to talk about this stuff. There's always something to nitpick about and it's always someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. Doves circle. That's just a fact. Maybe it just isn't common knowledge. I don't know. It is where I came from. We had to hunt in tight groups when hunting doves because it was too tempting to shoot at the doves as they flew by which would have meant shooting at your fellow hunters. But I have stood and watched doves fly by repeatedly as they were shot at. Maybe in places where there are more doves people just don't notice they circle back. But where I lived and grew up everything had been hunted to near extinction when I was a kid so the few doves we saw we had to try hard to kill. For many years they outlawed dove hunting because there hardly any left. There were hardly and squirrels or rabbits left either. The depression era put people out in the fields looking for dinner and over hunting was extremely common.

But I suppose a cynic doesn't believe anything they haven't seen themselves. I'd ask you if you have ever hunted doves but you won't answer any questions I ask at all.

And this has again gotten to the point where threats of bans start happening so I wish you a good life. Before I go how about telling me where you live. Send it in a PM if you want. If it's close enough we'll soon see what the real story is. I'm serious. I live in SW Ohio currently. Let me know if you want to come by. I move around the state and in Kentucky and Indiana also. So if you're anywhere in the neighborhood let's go shooting some day. If you have any friends in the area I'll entertain them as well. I can shoot ni my back yard or we can go to the local gun range. Your choice.

I guess I will never know why some people want to turn a civil discussion into a food fight. I can easily demonstrate for you. But that would take the fun out of it, right?