Target/Training Rifle - Savage MkII or Ruger 10/22

[CraigC]

If you were right handed, I would've suggested the Savage MKII FVT model that comes with excellent target sights. The 10/22 with Tech Sights is wonderful though.

(Flame suit on)
Im gunna be honest- I hate the 10/22 as it sits out of the box. The mag release and bolt hold-open are one of the worst designs ever, the flush 10-round magazine is a pain to remove and insert, reliability and accuracy wasnt impressive in any of the 3 I had, and the cheap plastic fire control unit they use now triggers my OCD.

Yes, yes, I know all these things can be upgraded with better aftermarket parts, but Im done with the 10/22.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

Out of the box, I always saw the 10/22 as an upgrade over the Marlin 60 I had before it.

The original mag release and 10rd magazine were to make the bottom of the rifle completely flush. Without those goofy projections common to most other .22 rifles.

The bolt release is indefensible but easily fixed.

I always viewed the polymer trigger housing as an improvement. The anodized aluminum that preceded it looks like crap when it gets a little wear on it.

The real beauty of the 10/22 is that it can be anything you want it to be.

 

[LiveLife]

2 goals. One, practice hitting my target with military style adjustable aperture sights with as much accuracy as I could get for my budget. Two, do so with a rifle chambered in 22 LR to keep ammo costs down ... budget ... $400, including sights.

I used CMMG 22LR conversion bolt kits so I could use my 16"/18"/20" ARs for cheaper shooting drills (Especially for close quarter point shooting training) but 1:7/1:8/1:9 twist rate and larger bore averaged 3"+ groups at 50 yards with cheaper loose bulk 22LR. But since these shooting drills didn't require "minute of soda can" accuracy at 100 yards, CMMG conversion bolts worked fine for shooting drills as long as I kept them clean after several hundred rounds.

Using dedicated 22LR upper with 1:16 twist rate and smaller bore will allow you to practice using same AR lowers and sights and reduce group "scatter" to more respectable 3/4" at 50 yards.

BCA has "in stock" complete 16" dedicated 22LR upper with 1:16 twist rate heavy barrel with 15" MLok handguard for $289 + free shipping on $300+ orders (Add $11 worth of items to get over $300 from their parts page for free shipping ... Click "Load Next" for more items) - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/22...el-1-16-twist-15-mlok-scg2-nrail-branded.html

accuracy I want is more likely available from a bolt action than a semiautomatic like the 10/22. However, I feel I'm behind in that I don't have a 10/22 yet.If drills/speed/efficiency training were my goal, clearly a dedicated AR-22, or at least an upper, would be the way to go. I'm just trying to hit with a similar sight system for cheaper.

1/2" to 3/4" groups at 50 yards is what I get with my 10/22 and T/CR22 with selective ammunition (CCI/Blazer/Aguila 40 gr) after some accurizing outlined on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12176951

The "Accurizing 22LR on the cheap" thread draws from over 40,000 rounds of 30+ brands/weights/lots of ammunition that I tested with various rifles (Several 10/22s and Take Down) and 10,000 rounds with new 10/22 and T/CR22 while capturing every 5/10 shot groups as factory parts broke-in and modification parts were added - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/real-world-accurizing-22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/

10/22 has about $140 and T/CR22 about $340 in accurizing parts to produce 1/2" groups at 50 yards using CCI SV/Blazer 40 gr LRN and 3/4" groups using Aguila 40 gr LRN/CPRN (All boxed, not loose bulk).

But you can significantly reduce group size with $43 Volquartsen trigger kit and reduce flyers with $50 CPC pinned and reworking of factory bolt along with "free" free-floating of barrel using scrap plastic shim under V-block and bedding of rear of receiver with electrical tape to produce around 3/4" groups at 50 yards, if you already have a 10/22.

But since you do not have a 10/22, I think going with BCA dedicated complete 22LR upper is a better way to go for $289 as it will allow you to use your ARs for same manual of arms and sights practice.

 

[12Bravo20]

If you were right handed, I would've suggested the Savage MKII FVT model that comes with excellent target sights. The 10/22 with Tech Sights is wonderful though.



Out of the box, I always saw the 10/22 as an upgrade over the Marlin 60 I had before it.

The original mag release and 10rd magazine were to make the bottom of the rifle completely flush. Without those goofy projections common to most other .22 rifles.

The bolt release is indefensible but easily fixed.

I always viewed the polymer trigger housing as an improvement. The anodized aluminum that preceded it looks like crap when it gets a little wear on it.

The real beauty of the 10/22 is that it can be anything you want it to be.

The 10/22 versus the Model 60 is like the Model 870 versus the Model 500. All are good guns and will serve one well. It is a matter of which brand works best for the individual shooter. I personally have had better results with a stock Model 60 or Model 70 over a stock 10/22. Every Marlin 60/70 has shot better that all the 10/22s I have had over the years. The 10/22 definitely has the aftermarket support for those that want to change things out. The Marlin rifles are a moot point right now unless one wants to buy a used one.

 

[ericuda]

My 10/22 can use a 25 round mag which makes me happy.

Out of box the savage is more accurate and the Marlin maybe too.

I can easily make the 10/22 more accurate and still can use 25 round mag.

 

[DMW1116]

My scoped 22 is a Marlin 60 from the late 70s, before the barrels were shortened but not with LRBHO. It’s a little picky and shoots best with CCI SV.

That BCA deal might be the way to go. I would end up with a dedicated lower but that’s just me.

 

[LiveLife]

That BCA deal might be the way to go.

I would end up with a dedicated lower but that’s just me.

Why?

Pop two pins and your lower is ready for another upper.

 

[DMW1116]

Like I said, it’s just how I am.

 

[LiveLife]

BCA complete 16" dedicated 22LR upper price drop to $249 from $289 - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/22...el-1-16-twist-15-mlok-scg2-nrail-branded.html

1:16 twist rate heavy barrel with 15" MLok handguard for $249 + free shipping on $300+ orders (Add items to get over $300 from their parts page for free shipping ... Click "Load Next" for more items)

 

[12Bravo20]

If anyone buys a BCA 22lr upper, make darn sure to check that the extractor groove is cut correctly and NOT too deep.

While that is the main complaint seen with the BCA 22 uppers, it is a major safety concern especially if you shoot left handed. You don't want cases rupturing right next to your face.

 

[CapnMac]

Why?

For my 2¢, a dedicated lower means not needing compromise magazines.
And, maybe, I have too many hours with too many of the military-issue conversions kits with all their foibles to render an unbiased judgement.
Which is why I jumped on an S&W M&P-15-22 when a local shop had one for sale. Ok, the extra mags are not inexpensive, but, they are reliable and not a kludge.
Your mileage may vary.

From my Appleseed experience where 10/22 are the "80%" rule of it, it generally seemed (to me) that everyone spent close to the price of the 10/22, again, on getting them to "goldilocks." (I was more than happy to use my 1949 Mossberg M-44, but, that's me; YMMV.)

 

[d2wing]

Oh, and I forgot to mention my budget, which is about $400, including sights.

I have had decent accuracy from 10/22's. By all means get one. If you are not happy with-it, aftermarket barrels are cheap and easy as well as DIY mods. A cheap Savage would be ok too. A conversion kit would be cheap but I would plan on practicing at 50 yards rather than 100.

 

[DMW1116]

Ultimately my choice was determined by availability. I ended up going with a stainless 10/22, as the stainless version of the Savage MKII was out of stock.

We’ll see how accurate it is. I’ll try the factory sights for a bit and see how it does. I note it does not appear to come with scope bases, so I’ll have to check into that.

I have a 4x scope on an 80’s era Marlin 60 I’d be willing to pull off for testing the 10/22. Ultimately it should end up with a set of Tech Sights for 50 yard small bore rifle practicing.

It’s not an AR analog but that wasn’t my intent to start. I just wanted a 22 with AR style peep sights for target practice. I have also wanted a magazine fed semiautomatic 22 rifle, so I’m covered on all fronts. All my 22 rifles are currently tube fed. I like the look of the stainless and my perception is stainless barrels are more accurate in average. We shall see.

 

[d2wing]

Ultimately my choice was determined by availability. I ended up going with a stainless 10/22, as the stainless version of the Savage MKII was out of stock.

We’ll see how accurate it is. I’ll try the factory sights for a bit and see how it does. I note it does not appear to come with scope bases, so I’ll have to check into that.

I have a 4x scope on an 80’s era Marlin 60 I’d be willing to pull off for testing the 10/22. Ultimately it should end up with a set of Tech Sights for 50 yard small bore rifle practicing.

It’s not an AR analog but that wasn’t my intent to start. I just wanted a 22 with AR style peep sights for target practice. I have also wanted a magazine fed semiautomatic 22 rifle, so I’m covered on all fronts. All my 22 rifles are currently tube fed. I like the look of the stainless and my perception is stainless barrels are more accurate in average. We shall see.

Congrats on your purchase. I shot with a guy with a stainless barreled 10/22 and it was very accurate. We tied for smallest group and I won the tiebreaker at a turkey shoot. I hope yours shoots that well. His was well broken in he told me.

 

[DMW1116]

Nothing wrong with wood and blued steel but lately I’ve taken a shine to stainless. (See what I did there? I’ll see myself out).

 

[jmr40]

Im gunna be honest- I hate the 10/22 as it sits out of the box.

Depends on which box you get it out of.

I can't stand the common carbine that most people think of when you say 10/22. But Ruger shows 61 different variants online currently. And over the years have offered that many again that are no longer in production.

Some of them out of the box are quite nice and surprisingly accurate. And then there is the endless modifications you can do to one to turn it into anything you want.

I can see the argument for a Smith 15-22. For a lot of people that is the right choice. But I had one and didn't care for it. I have real AR's and 5.56 ammo isn't that expensive. I can do the cheaper target practice I need with one of the Ruger variants.

And a $400 budget says 10-22 to me.

 

[CraigC]

I can't stand the common carbine that most people think of when you say 10/22.

That is what most people think about. Meanwhile, this is a conglomeration of factory parts. Basically a cheap $200 carbine barreled action with no sights and a take-off TALO stock.

 

[DMW1116]

I may need to start a separate thread about the 10/22, but does anyone like/use the factory sights?

 

[CraigC]

I may need to start a separate thread about the 10/22, but does anyone like/use the factory sights?

They're fine for what they are but any barrel mounted rear sight is going to be limited. If I'm going to use irons, I want peep sights.

 

[DMW1116]

Generally so do I. This rifle was j tended to have peeps but I’ll at least try the factory sights and see how they do. My Henry has about the best open sights I’ve tried but lacks the adjustment for the type of target shooting I intend with the 10/22.

 

[DMW1116]

I mounted a Simmons 4x scope and took the 10/22 out for a spin. I only tried standard velocity loads and it seems to have a preference for Aguila over the Norma my Henry seems to favor. It functioned flawlessly, without a jam over about 50 rounds. The only issue I had is loading the magazine is tedious especially with the Norma. The lube used on them is kinda greasy. Is there a trick to loading these things I missed?

 

[Picher]

I’m interested in a 22 rifle to supplement practicing with my M16A4gery using peep sights. Either will likely end up with Tech Sights for practicing out to 100 yards or so. I’m mainly interested in as much accuracy out of the box as I can get. There will likely be some double duty as a new shooter training rifle. I’m leaning slightly toward a 10/22 but I’m still exploring.

If you're still interested in the 10-22, consider the 10-22 Target model. If not, really consider getting an after-market Shilen or other barrel-maker's bull barrels for the 10-22. I have a Shilen HB and it's fantastic, especially after bedding the action, the first couple of inches of barrel and the action.

 

[DMW1116]

I ended up with a stock stainless 10/22. It will take a little bit to see where I am in terms of accuracy and if there are any parts I want to replace. I didn't want to turn it into a project 22, but that might well be where I end up. For now, I'm going to try some different ammo types and see what does best. It won't be ready for this month's silhouette competition, but maybe in May. I'm planning on using the Henry H001 and the factory sights for the one in April.

 

[LiveLife]

I ended up with a stock stainless 10/22

Nice and congrats.

I didn't want to turn it into a project 22, but that might well be where I end up. For now, I'm going to try some different ammo types and see what does best

My 10/22 factory trigger was 7.5 lbs that decreased to 4.5 lbs after 4000 rounds but trigger input/push/pull still caused widening of groups.

$43 Volquartsen trigger kit decreased the trigger pull down to 2.5 lbs and was the most significant accurizing modification in reducing group size for my 10/22 and T/CR22 - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1004752381/

And if you are experiencing non-trigger related flyers, it is likely caused by factory bolt with loose/uncaptured firing pin with uneven/not square bolt face to breech face. At the many recommendation of rimfirecentral.com, I had my factory bolt pinned and reworked by CPC for $50 and it helped reduce flyers - https://www.ct-precision.com/1022rework.html

I free-floated the barrel using scrap plastic shim under V-block (About 1/8" thick) and bedding of rear of receiver with 4" strip of electrical tape along with $25 enhanced V-block from Tactical Solutions and now produce consistently around 1/2" groups with CCI SV/Blazer 40 gr LRN and 3/4" groups with Aguila 40 gr LRN/CPRN (Boxed, not loose bulk as loose ammo will do 1"+) at 50 yards out of factory barrel with 6500+ rounds shot through (I don't scrub the barrel often and only clean with copper/bronze brush with Hoppes #9 3 pushes from chamber to muzzle every 2000 rounds and dry swab in between) - https://www.eabco.net/Tactical-Solutions-Stainless-Steel-Ruger-1022-V-Block_p_14113.html

And keep the muzzle crown clean or uneven muzzle crown surface will push bullets to widen group size.

If you want to go step-by-step, I would do the Volquartsen trigger kit first along with "free" free-floating of barrel and "bedding" of rear of receiver with electrical tape. Then if you are still getting unexplained/non-trigger related flyers, do the CPC pinning/rework of bolt and do TacSol enhanced V-block last.

 

[Demi-human]

I ended up with a stock stainless 10/22.

Nice!

Buy multiple magazines.
Have children load them.

 

[DMW1116]

I only have about 3 magazines worth through it so far. The reliability relative to my Marlins is a big surprise. No failures yet. My rifles seem to prefer Aguila HV or SV Super Extra or CCI SV. I say that to say I have those on hand and will test with them. The Aguila SV shot about 3/4" this weekend but that was only 3 shots. My initial intent for this rifle is somewhat being replaced by a desire to tactiLOL the poop out of this rifle. I have a similar dark desire related to my Marlin 336 but switching to cast loads cured that.