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Taurus Judge - I'm surprised!

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by PTK, Mar 28, 2011.

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  1. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Today, I traded my Cz82 straight across for a NIB Taurus 3" chamber, 3" barrel blued Judge. I did try to tell him it wasn't a good deal for him, but... some people... after he bought the Judge, people told him it was loud, weak, and useless, so he tucked it away and didn't use it. Traded it at a huge loss, as they go for ~$500 NIB here, while Cz82s are about $220.

    I thought for sure I'd use it a few times and sell it at a profit, but after putting a mix of 200 various rounds I had laying around through it (all .410, I don't have any .45 colt), I'm hooked.

    Here's a rundown of the ammo I tried:

    Federal .410 2-1/2", 4 000 buck (handgun ammo)
    Federal .410 3", 9 4 buck (handgun ammo)
    Golden Bear (I know, I know) .410 3" 4 buck, unknown number of pellets but probably 9 or 10
    Remington .410 3", #4 birdshot
    Remington .410 3", #6 birdshot
    Winchester .410 3", 5 000 buck
    Winchester .410 3", #6 birdshot
    Winchester .410 2-1/2", #8 birdshot

    The birdshot of all types resulted in a huge muzzle blast, massive concussion, and very little damage to the target. The Golden Bear had a similarly huge blast and concussion, but significantly more target damage - however, the brass plated steel was quite hard to extract from the cylinder, as I had predicted.

    The Winchester 000 buck was very disappointing - huge muzzle blast and concussion, VERY little damage to the target. I'll keep it around for my M6 survival 22/410, nothing else. It worked much better out of the longer barrel.

    The Federal handgun .410, however, was amazing - the recoil was still there, the sound was around the same as a .45 colt out of a 7" barrel (much quieter than any of the other ammo I tried), and the muzzle blast was practically nonexistent. I fired this at night, barely an hour ago, and there was essentially ZERO muzzle flash. The pellets from the #4 were, as I expected, all over the target at 10 yards, but the pellets from the 000 buck were in a nice 8" circle, time and again, basically centered on point of aim.

    Taurus finally made something that didn't suck. Good. :)
     
  2. 2RCO

    2RCO Member

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    PTK,

    I've been doing some (not so scientific) testing with a Public Defender and found the results with Winchester PDX1 2-1/2" to be quite satisfactory at short ranges. I was doubtful that such a short barrel on a .410 would develop enough velocity to do much at all. After seeing what this round will do to water filled cans and jugs I'm fairly impressed. I'd like to see the results on ballistic gelatin.

    Raleigh
     
  3. PTK

    PTK Member

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    You're in luck, this week I'll be doing some gelatin testing with the Federal .410 handgun ammo. :)
     
  4. Kendal Black

    Kendal Black Member

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    Looking forward to the results.

    Some years ago I did some informal testing of .410 out of a Contender pistol. The results were discouraging in range and penetration and I look forward to results from new ammo reformulated for pistols. There wasn't any such thing back then. A .410 pistol was good for a snake at your feet, not much else. IMHO, YMMV, XYZ GSTM and PDQ.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2011
  5. weregunner

    weregunner Member

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  6. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Exactly the same issue that kept me from getting a Judge since it came out - pitiful penetration. Now that the main issue I had with it is solved, I do very much like it.

    I'm looking forward to getting some gelatin results, from what I've been able to glean there's LOTS more penetration in the Federal handgun .410 ammo than anything else on the market.

    Right now, my only issue is that NO ONE has done any gel testing of the new ammo. It went through a piece of 1" marine plywood no problem, but that doesn't tell me much other than it's got a little bit of power. Once I do some basic gel tests, I'll feel confident enough that I know whether the ammo is powerful enough for actual defensive use or not. :)
     
  7. PcolaDawg

    PcolaDawg Member

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    I really like the Judge as well. Out of all of my handguns, that's the one that's actually been the most practical use.

    I have a few acres, and I never do any serious yard work without having it by my side. And if any of my kids are doing work around the ponds, I loan it to them. It's an invaluable gun for taking out poisonous snakes. I've killed three so far, each with one shot. In the water, on land, it doesn't miss (using #6 birdshot).

    Before the Judge, I never even got the chance to kill a poisonous snake. I'd see one, go up to the house to get my shotgun, and when I came back the thing was gone. Now I don't even have to get off my riding mower. I just pull out the Judge while I'm sitting down and --- no more snake.

    I also like it's versatility. I always keep at least one or two chambers full of buckshot in case a pig or something larger than a snake comes threatening.

    Anyway, I'm a huge fan of Smith & Wesson revolvers, but I have come to be real appreciative of the Taurus Judge.
     
  8. nonseven

    nonseven Member

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    I've done quite a bit of chronograph testing of various loads out of a 2" public defender, and a 3" barrel Judge.

    My conclusion is that the "handgun" loads do not make much difference - perhaps 50 fps or so in a short-barreled Judge.

    With a 3 barrel, you should see about 700-770 fps out of all of the various buckshot loads.

    Out of a 7 1/2" BFR, the Winchester 3" shell 00 buck does about 925 fps, and a 2 1/2" handgun load from Remington or Federal does about 975 fps.

    Talk about a snake gun, the BFR with the choke in throws a very dense pattern of birdshot - maybe 4" circle at 10 ft, and 12" circle at 30 ft.
     
  9. bayhawk2

    bayhawk2 Member

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    I have had the Judge for some time now.Like everyone else,I thought
    I had made a big mistake.The grouping on everything I tried was
    so bad,that there is not words for it.
    Then came the Federal Handgun .410 000 buckshot.
    It turned this gun into a whole new serious S/D weapon.
    Some of the best groups up to 15 yards that can be expected.
    No.Actually more than I bargained for.If you want a snake
    shot,and I have tried them all.The Remington (Express Long Range)
    #6's are as good as it gets.If you can find them.Get a box and try them out.
    I also tried the
    Winchester PDX-1.Good groups from the 3 disc,but they should
    have put an x-tra disc in place of the BB's.The BB's put this load
    back into the junk drawer.
    In my opinion,if they do away with the Federal Handgun 000 Buckshot
    I'll probably just keep the boxes I have and try to "re-load" to the
    same specs.Yep.The gun with these loads are that good.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2011
  10. PTK

    PTK Member

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    That's quite surprising, given that some of the other buckshot loads bounced off of 1" ply, while the "handgun" 410 loads zipped right through. I can't imaging the FPS being only 50 higher would do that.
     
  11. bayhawk2

    bayhawk2 Member

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    Check out this test.The shortest barrel which means the
    lowest velocity obtainable from the Federal Handgun .410 000 Buckshot.
    Not gel,but it is a gauge to see the penetration.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgxuAUajH8w
     
  12. nonseven

    nonseven Member

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    I didn't test the Golden Bear.
     
  13. natman

    natman Member

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    It's probably not just the extra velocity. Many buckshot loads flatten the shot when fired from a Judge. I have heard that the Federal loads use harder shot to prevent this. At any rate, a buckshot that is still round will penetrate a lot better than one that looks like a tuna can.
     
  14. Screendmon

    Screendmon Member

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    You should test the 45 colt penetration. :)
     
  15. bwleso

    bwleso Member

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    Gentlemen, new to the forum and glad to be here. I purchased the public defender 2" poly w/2 1/2" chamber recently with self defense purposes in mind. I have some experience shooting but am far from an experienced marksman. With that in mind I was impressed with .45lc accuracy at the end of the indoor range being 55'-60' out. Was able to place an intended dead center head shot on a silohuet type target at that max. range (well was maybe 1/2" off dead center) with the 1st shot. Found all of the .45 shots to be pleasently and surprisingly accurate from the 2" barrel! I ran a few of the Winchester PDX-1 out to about 30' which seemed at that range to be just as accurate w/the 3 disc grouping at about 1-2". I have no idea how useful this round is in regards to stopping power or penatration but have no doubts when it comes to using the .45 silver tips or cowboy loads when used for self defense purposes within that 60' range and do not anticipate needing to use at a range beyond this for home/car/personal defense.

    Any thoughts?
     
  16. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Again, I don't have any .45 Colt ammo, so unless you feel like sending me a box... ;)
     
  17. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Well, there we are. I tested the Judge with various ammo on some ballistic gelatin. My suspicion was correct - the 4 pellet 000 buck Federal "handgun" load penetrated between 15 and 18 inches, with two pellets going through-and-through the second block. Those two pellets have, at the minimum, 18" penetration.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The Judge is a joke. Right. 18"+ penetration with 000 buck. Some joke. ;)
     
  18. Nushif

    Nushif Member

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    I've been mildly wanting a judge since I've gotten to shoot one.
    Tore some random junk to pieces with both .45 Colt and .410. Not sure what the .410 was, but it made a mess of most things I shot it at.
     
  19. PcolaDawg

    PcolaDawg Member

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    PTK - awesome! Thanks for the report and the pix. Good stuff.
     
  20. Kendal Black

    Kendal Black Member

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    Very interesting. Thanks, PTK.
     
  21. LouCap

    LouCap Member

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    First, tahnks for the validation! I own a Poly PD and have always been inpressed by it's performance. Second, you need to post your results on every forum on the internet! There are so many Taurus and Judge haters out there who keep quoting the "box o' truth" results with inferior loads. Your results are the real deal and need to be shared.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Tapatalk Pro.
     
  22. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    Hmmmm, very interesting...how's the recoil with the Federal OO buck load? I am wanting to get one for my wife.
     
  23. daorhgih

    daorhgih member

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    "Post results on every site of the internet"

    PLEASE don't do that until I've bought MINE!! NIB, 3" chamber and barrel, $399.00. All blue. Thanks for these affirming tests. I knew the beta-test in the public's hands would prove this gun's capabilities. Thanks again.
     
  24. Manco

    Manco Member

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    PTK, was the gelatin calibrated? If so, what was the velocity and penetration depth of the calibration BB? If not, then the result doesn't mean much, I'm afraid, because gelatin can vary a whole lot.
     
  25. PTK

    PTK Member

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    3.75" @ 588 fps. :)
     
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