Taurus judge?

[Combat Engineer]

"The smaller versions (Taurus Judge) are still massive, too big to consider for CC..." [USAF_Vet]

My 1911 commander weighs 47 oz (loaded weight) and is larger (height & length) than my 34 oz (loaded weight) Judge snubby. Carry it daily OWB or shoulder holster, and for deep cover it works fine in an ankle holster.

The 2" barreled snubby Judge Public Defender is surprisingly versatile (especially with handloads, the 410 is a large shell), and you can get it in a lighter package in poly.

"...make mine a Raging Judge so I also have the option for .454 Casull." [Ibid]

Sold my 6.5" S&W 29, couldn't afford a valet to carry it...

 

[hAkron]

I would consider one of these only if somebody could convince me that I might have fun shooting trap with it, and it would be the Governor, not the judge.

 

[SterlingBullet]

I have let more than a dozen people try my Judge using Winchester PDX or Federal 000. Everyone of them have put all five rounds in the center mass of a silhouette target at 7 yards in rapid fire. 75% of the pellets fell within the 7-9 rings; the wads also struck the target center mass. Every person was surprised how little recoil there was, especially those who had little experience with firearms.

The gun performs as intended; it fires multiple projectiles like a shotgun, hitting center mass in a home defense situation with very little felt recoil, unlike a shotgun. Anyone can use this weapon to protect themselves, particularly those who are afraid of shotguns or could never manage to correctly handle multiple controls of some semiautomatic handguns in a situation.

Firing 45 LC is a bonus versatility.

 

[RealGun]

I would consider one of these only if somebody could convince me that I might have fun shooting trap with it, and it would be the Governor, not the judge.

I think we have gotten the point long ago that many don't respect the gun or the decisions to buy them. Furthermore, we get it that the Taurus Judge lives in the shadow of Smith & Wesson's offering, even if (Taurus is) arguably the superior design and concept. The subject seems to draw more cynical comments than anything useful. It also seems to get more comments from those who never shot one than those who have.

 

[cpt-t]

As I said befor, I have owned my Judge for several years and I think it is a fun gun shoot. And I enjoy shooting it. If I take it to my Gun Clubs Range, I know I will be coming back home with very little if any ammo left for it. Due to the fact every body encluding their Wives and Kids, want to shoot the darn thing. I stoped by one of the LGS in my area, and they had quite a slection of Judges on hand from the 6in barrel guns to the short barrel guns. I asked if they were still selling very well and they told me that they had just got this shiptment in 2 days befor and they had already sold 3 of them. And that they were still selling as well or better than any Handgun that they sold. So somebody must be having some fun with them other than me. Mine is a Hoot to Shoot, and don`t plan on selling it any time soon.
ken

 

[weregunner]

I look at this this way.

If you have a Judge or Governor and like it, it fills your needs and wants, and performs well, there is nothing else that matters.

If one does not like the .410/.45 Colt concept, fine.

I'm somewhere in the middle of all this.

Many other gun companies make or have made derringers (single shot and two- Bonds come to mind), revolvers, or other firearms down through the many decades. There is a precedent for this kind of thing that has been laid down for many, many years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.410_bore
http://www.guns.com/2013/04/10/before-the-judge-there-was-the-thunder-5/

On the other hand I have little to no use for any of the .45 Colt/.410 guns.

I've got other revolvers that handle the jobs better.

I"m still waiting for real world documented uses of the Judge/Governor/Bond Arms etc., in a defense scenario (not just a couple of scenarios- say 10 or more) for these to become relevant in my eyes. The multiple projectiles flying loose curdles my blood. If they all hit the bad guy/s, no problem. They don't then the defender buys any consequences, if any, for that individual incident.

The concept still needs to be proved in the real world for defense and not just in our minds.

If it works then fine. If it does not then there will be problems down the road.

My take is shot shells for pests and some varmints and single projectiles for defense.

 

[RealGun]

<snip>I"m still waiting for real world documented uses of the Judge/Governor/Bond Arms etc., in a defense scenario (not just a couple of scenarios- say 10 or more) for these to become relevant in my eyes. The multiple projectiles flying loose curdles my blood. If they all hit the bad guy/s, no problem. They don't then the defender buys any consequences, if any, for that individual incident.<snip>

I think many incorrectly assume how much these shot rounds will spread at practical ranges. Without the #4 Federals, there might not be much spread at all at point and shoot range. To me, I think the large buckshot is outdone by the 45 Colt option.

 

[Lord Teapot]

i avoid taurus products based on bad reviews, not only online, but from other gun owners i know in person. however, the only people i know with judges, have been satisfied with their purchases, but these are people who use it for its intended purpose; a portable snake gun.

 

[RealGun]

i avoid taurus products based on bad reviews, not only online, but from other gun owners i know in person. however, the only people i know with judges, have been satisfied with their purchases, but these are people who use it for its intended purpose; a portable snake gun.

Sounds good, except it's not "a portable snake gun", and I don't believe you can substantiate that such purpose was intended by the design. There are just too many misinformed comments when this subject comes up. Typical shot size is way overkill for a common snake, as is 410 in general.

 

[Havok7416]

As I recall (and I could be remembering wrong), Taurus originally marketed rhe Judge as more of an anti-carjacking or -mugging weapon. There's the not-quite plausible story about armed judges also, but either way I don't think the gun wad intended for snakes.

 

[Ed Ames]

The real problem with the judge is that it doesn't fit the American legal system.

Specifically, American civilians face an "any force expressed via a firearm is deadly force, and any randomness is negligence" standard where a single pellet bouncing off a bystander's shoe can see a civilian prosecuted for unjustified use of deadly force and sued for negligence. At the same time Americans have fairly accepting views of officials (police) firing towards bystanders and being immune to the consequences. A police officer in NYC wouldn't hesitate to shoot 9x19 at someone running towards a crowd, and any bystanders hit are the responsibility of the person being shot at, not the officer pulling the trigger.

As such, the central premise of the Judge is meaningless - or worse - in the American context.

The idea behind the judge is that it is a lethal weapon at short range, but becomes less likely to do serious harm very quickly by firearm standards, specifically to reduce the actual risks involved in shooting towards bystanders. However, civilians get zero credit for attempting to reduce harm and police aren't accountable for harm so the whole exercise is short circuited by the legal system.

This leaves a very frustrating disconnect in the discussion of the Judge. People who have internalized the "always deadly force" standard see the judge as multiplying harm (because the shot spreads out to hit more people, applying deadly force to more people even though the likelihood of lethality goes down). People in law enforcement see it as an answer in search of a question since they have no risk anyway. The only group that buys into the judge premise at all are people who think gunfights are most likely to occur at less than 7 yards and are more concerned with actual risk to bystanders than legal exposure...and frankly those are the same people who are likely to far overestimate the effectiveness of birdshot.

I know one person who keeps a judge, loaded with birdshot, as his bedside gun. When I told him my opinion of that his answer was that his house has a hallway. In the middle of the hallway is the door to the main living space. On one end is his bedroom, and on the other his daughter's. If someone broke into his house and started knocking down doors, the attackers would be directly between him and his daughter. He was willing to accept reduced effectiveness because he felt it reduced the actual risk of death for his daughter. I pretty much noped out of the conversation at that point for obvious reasons, saying that he might want to look into some sort of remodeling of his home. Still, I imagine he is not alone in feeling the judge has a real-world advantage despite the disadvantages under US law.

 

[RealGun]

But yet 12 gauges are all the rage.

 

[Ed Ames]

12ga loaded with buckshot or slugs. The dispersal of 12ga buck is less than 9mm from a typical adrenaline pumped pistol shot.

12ga bird shot is widely panned as insufficient for defense use.

 

[bikerdoc]

I dont like them but it is your money, your decision.

 

[TimSr]

When I look over my collection of arms, I could get rid of all of them but about 3 if I used the same criteria people want to put on this gun. How many of your guns really fill some kind of void to address a specific need? I can easily say that 70% of the guns I have, are because I want them, and for no other reason.

 

[JFrame]

When I look over my collection of arms, I could get rid of all of them but about 3 if I used the same criteria people want to put on this gun. How many of your guns really fill some kind of void to address a specific need? I can easily say that 70% of the guns I have, are because I want them, and for no other reason.

For myself, maybe more than 3, but I agree with your sentiment otherwise.

.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've always said the Judge is a bad idea, poorly executed.

Cut the frame and cylinder back to .45 Colt length (say around 1.7"), give it tight chambers and properly dimensioned throats and I might just buy one.

 

[RealGun]

I've always said the Judge is a bad idea, poorly executed.

Cut the frame and cylinder back to .45 Colt length (say around 1.7"), give it tight chambers and properly dimensioned throats and I might just buy one.

That would be to totally miss the point of a gun that could shoot shotshell along with cartridges. Rather than disrespect the Judge, just go buy a nice 45 Colt, if that suits you better.

 

[silicosys4]

I think many incorrectly assume how much these shot rounds will spread at practical ranges. Without the #4 Federals, there might not be much spread at all at point and shoot range. To me, I think the large buckshot is outdone by the 45 Colt option.

http://www.410handguns.com/taurus_spd_text.html

There is only one load that keeps what to me is an acceptable spread at 10ft.
Most of the rounds tested went from a pattern size of approximately 1.5" at 6 feet,
to 4" and up at 10 feet.
Thats more than doubling the pattern size 4 feet later! And those are the better buckshot loads, some buckshot loads printed patterns that went up to 13" at 10 freakin feet. That is a useless load.

From that website, only federal premium 000 buck .410 handgun buckshot keeps a tight enough pattern to avoid becoming useless at anything over 20 feet.
And it doesn't look like barrel length makes any difference.


Thats 20 feet. Thats not even 7 yards.
Sure, you can run .45 colt out of it for defense, but then you are packing around a lot of revolver to fire five shots of .45 colt.
It looks like a fun gun, useful in the field for sure, but its value as a defensive weapon is highly overrated imo, unless you can somehow guarantee that any life threatening encounters you may have will be at under 10 feet.

 

[RealGun]

There is only one load that keeps what to me is an acceptable spread at 10ft.
Most of the rounds tested went from a pattern size of approximately 1.5" at 6 feet, to 4" and up at 10 feet.

That's pretty much what I would want. The point is to increase the chances of hitting something, like any shotgun. The point may also be to have a less lethal weapon. If I need pinpoint accuracy, I should be shooting the 45 Colt option. If I need groups tighter than a pie plate, I should have a target gun.

 

[silicosys4]

That's pretty much what I would want. The point is to increase the chances of hitting something, like any shotgun. The point may also be to have a less lethal weapon. If I need pinpoint accuracy, I should be shooting the 45 Colt option. If I need groups tighter than a pie plate, I should have a target gun.

Increasing the spread does increase your chances of hitting "something" , definitely.
But hitting "something", especially with a less than lethal round or in a less than lethal/stopping area is no way of guaranteeing an end of the threat.
It lowers the chance of you hitting what you are actually aiming as those pellets deviate randomly away from your path of aim. This unfortunately happens far too soon for a Judge IMO as compared to a shotgun.
You no longer have shot placement.
I think a better option is to commit to the fact that if I'm going to depend on a gun I should train to use it so I can hit what I'm aiming at, and place shots as precisely as I can to ensure a quick end of whatever I'm being threatened by.
Something you cannot do at anything but point blank range with .410 buckshot out of the Judge

So that pretty much leaves you with .45 colt as your defensive option.
And I can think of better options than a 37 ounce five shot full size revolver.

 

[RealGun]

But hitting "something", especially with a less than lethal round or in a less than lethal/stopping area is no way of guaranteeing an end of the threat.

Yes, the stop the threat rhetoric...yawn. Then there is no real point to a shotgun except as an excuse for not carrying a bigger caliber handgun. A Judge firing shot can carry the same argument about penetration of walls, but once firing the bigger buckshot that factor is lost, essentially one big hole. If size of entry wound, given some level of shot spread, is important, then it applies to both shotgun and Judge.

But I allowed myself to get caught up in this same old make-me-defend-my-Judge thing. It is a fun gun, I am keeping it, and people still line up to shoot it, if I make the offer at the range.

It is not a gun I use for carry or loaded in the house or vehicle, but I could. Instead, I chose my Glock 22 Gen 3 for the bedroom, so it could have night sights, a light, and laser, plus carry enough rounds that I would not likely be fumbling around for a reload. My carry revolver would be close by in any case. During waking hours, I always have a revolver on me, never a Judge or any other 45 Colt size gun.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What is the Judge FOR?

Is it for self-defense? A .45 Colt is WAY better than a .410 shotgun round for that purpose.

Is it for concealed carry? A shorter cylinder would make it better for that purpose.

Is it for hunting quail and dove? Give me a break!

Is it for hunting ducks and geese? Pardon me for laughing.

Is it for hunting larger critters like deer? A .45 will do that -- no .410 capability needed.

Is it for killing snakes? I usually carry a .22 loaded with shot cartridges when going where snakes abound.

What is the Judge FOR?

 

[dodo bird]

I don't have one, however I have shot a couple and I really like them. I see them as great survival handgun. 45 colt for large critters and defensive. I think most agree that 45 colt is nothing to sneeze at. Then a mix of shells for birds and small game. A 44 mag won't work to well on small birds or squirrels.

 

[Havok7416]

Vern, does a particular gun need to have a specific purpose? I can think of numerous guns that have no apparent purpose other than being enjoyable.

I enjoy my Judge and I fully understand if someone else doesn't want one. There's a whole list of guns I don't care for either, but I have no problem with their existence.