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Taurus "The Judge" Can it fire +P Ammo in 45 LC?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by DetroitStudent, Jun 13, 2007.

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  1. DetroitStudent

    DetroitStudent Member

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    Has anyone tried to fire 45 + P in the Judge by Taurus. Is it possible? Do you get cylinder lockups/etc?

    Tell me what kind of ammo you used/buffalo bore/corbon etc.
     
  2. KaceCoyote

    KaceCoyote Member

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    Also interested, anyone called Taurus yet?
     
  3. christcorp

    christcorp Member

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    I'm not saying you can or you can't, BUT my reloading manuals still say "Ruger Only" on the hot loads. You are best off contacting Taurus and asking them what the higher pressure, speeds, and bullet weights can be put in that gun. The Ruger Blackhawk specifically says that it can use the hotter loads for hunting. (Or whatever else you want +/- 44 mag specs for. Later... Mike....
     
  4. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I took a look at a lot of .410 loads and none exceed 13,800 PSI. I thought looking at the 410 data I could figure out id hot .45 LC loads could be used but that was no help. Standard .45 LC loads match the .410 numbers but the hot .45 LC numbers are 20,000 PSI and up. (Some above 38,000 PSI) I would say asking Taurus is the only way to be safe but I have a feeling the answer is going to be no for the hot loads.
     
  5. bakert

    bakert Member

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    Not Me!!! Think I would stick with the regular loads.
     
  6. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    Is there such a thing as a .45 Colt +P?

    There are the "Ruger only" loads, and Buffalo Bore loads some that they call "+P" but is there a SAAMI definition for +P in the .45 Colt?

    Do you need something more powerful than the 225 Winchester Silvertip? If so then maybe you want a .44 Magnum.
     
  7. Burt Blade

    Burt Blade Member

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    My advice is:

    If the gun is a Colt or clone, never, ever use ammunition that exceeds SAAMI specifications for .45 Colt. The Colt Peacemaker is a wonderful design, but even with modern metals is has very little excess metal in the cylinder. Anything that is built as a replica was never intended for high-pressure loads.

    If you want to shoot "moose stomper" loads in a .45, get a Ruger.
     
  8. RevolvingCylinder

    RevolvingCylinder Member

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    Actually, the .45 Colt is a superior platform for "magnum" power. Its larger usable case capacity allow for .44 Remington Magnum performance at lower pressures or superior performance at higher pressures. Most of the reloading manuals I have have a section for ".45 Colt +P". It says for Ruger or other strong revolvers.

    For those that don't know, the Taurus "Judge" is a double-action revolver that is chambered in .410 and accepts .45 Colt cartridges.
     
  9. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    I don't disagree. In a Ruger (not the "new" Vaquero) or an 1892 is can be loaded way up there. However, there is no "+P" standard for .45 Colt, and Taurus isn't advertising their revolver to handle loads above the SAAMI standard.

    Also, it is amazing just how much performance you can get out of standard pressure loads. As a result, my original advice still stands.
     
  10. suemarkp

    suemarkp Member

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    The manual for this gun says (and their manuals are generic and most guns get the same book) the the limit for this gun is:

    45 Colt - 250gr @ 900 ft/sec

    You can certainly experiment, and the chambers are real long so you could use shallowly seated heavy bullets. But do so at your own risk, as pressure isn't the only thing that wrecks guns.

    Note that 1/2 oz is around 220 grains. So don't expect to get much over 900 ft/sec in shot loads unless you load them lighter shot payloads.
     
  11. christcorp

    christcorp Member

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    Well, I have a 44 mag Super Blackhawk and I had (just sold) a Ruger Blackhawk 45lc. I loaded up the 45lc with Ruger only hot loads for a hunting trip. (Not my primary weapon, that was a rifle. Just a backup for very short shots). Anyway; after shooting my Elk; with my 7mm Mag; I had time to burn. I decided to help my buddy find an elk of his own. He shot his elk, but it didn't go down right away. When we got within about 30 feet, he asked if he could use my 45lc to put him out of his misery. He shoots 44 mag all the time, but figure what the hell; we're here. After he pulled the trigger, I thought he was going to piss his pants. He looked at me and said that "He didn't see that coming".

    Shooting a Ruger blackhawk 45lc hot load is definitely an experience. I won't say that it's more powerful than a 44 mag. Just different. Don't know how to explain it. If you were use to shooting 45lc out of a blackhawk, and I slipped in a hot load without you knowing it, you would probably kick my ass. It doesn't have the load crack sound/feel like a 44 mag. It's like comparing Grandma smacking your rear end with a switch (44 mag) compared to getting smacked with a pool stick (45lc). They both hurt like hell, just different. You can buy factory Ruger only Hot Loads. I suggest if anyone has a 45lc blackhawk and hasn't tried a hot load in it yet, then you've got to try it out. Actually, after the first couple, you get use to it fast. I personally like it much better than the 44 mag. I just don't have a need for either anymore. Anyway, go to the range (Outdoor only) and load the first 3 with regular loads. Load the 4th with a hot load. Then the 5th and 6th with regular again. It's a pretty good feeling. Later... Mike.....
     
  12. buford1

    buford1 Member

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    Exactly what is 45lc, I have heard of 45 Colt, is lc a new cartridge.
     
  13. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    Buford:

    .45 Colt and .45 Long Colt are the exact same round. All it is is two different ways of saying the same thing.
     
  14. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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  15. christcorp

    christcorp Member

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    Yea, both the 45 colt and 45lc are the same. In military jargon, the 45ACP was, and to an extent, still a very popular caliber for their hand guns. Everyone is familiar with the 1911-A1 45acp. Well, the majority of them used was made by Colt. There was also some Springfield Armory, but mostly Colt. Well, people starting using both the ACP and the LONG colt a lot more. Matter of fact, there are a lot of 45 Colt revolvers that have moon clips to allow you to shoot 45acp through them. Anyway, it got quite confusing to ask someone to get you some ammo for your 45 colt. "You mean 45acp for your 1911 made by colt, or 45 ammo for your colt revolver". After a while, the revolver caliber just started being referred to as the "LONG COLT" because it was about twice as long as an 45acp round. Later... Mike...
     
  16. johndoe1027

    johndoe1027 Member

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    Yep, some of the +P loadings I found (awhile back) were within this specification. At least that's what I remember.

    Just get these.
    Load two or three of those for "stopping" power then finish it off with 410 slugs for penetration. I like to start out with a 000 buck personally. My old load was one 000 buck, 4 gold dots. :evil:

    I used to think that the 410 slug was the greatest "handgun" round until I did the math. 1/5 oz = 87.5 gr :( - - - Now of course its moving at about 1600 fps so some people would take that over 250 gr at 800 fps any day.
     
  17. Wedge

    Wedge Member

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    I would not load a non Ruger/Freedom Arms/TC with a Ruger only load.
     
  18. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    From page 9 of the Taurus Revolver manual:

    “Plus-P’, “PIus-P-Plus” or other ultra or high velocity ammunition generates
    pressures significantly in excess of the pressures associated with standard
    ammunition. Such pressures may affect the useful life of the firearm or
    exceed the margin of safety built into many revolvers and could therefore be
    DANGEROUS.

    But according to page 4 of Taurus catalog:
    +P RATED FOR DUTY USE®
    All Taurus handguns are engineered to accept a steady
    diet of factory-new Plus-P (+P) ammunition built to SAAMI
    specifi cations. This includes the Ultra-Lite hammer forged
    aluminum alloys, Titanium, blue steel and stainless steel
    models. Rest assured, your Taurus will be ready, especially
    when you’re counting on it.

    So who knows....
     
  19. kennygj

    kennygj Member

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    I called taurus today and they said no way can you use +p ammo. Does anyone know the bore diameter. Taurus could not tell me. I read that the older guns where .451 and newer guns where .454.
     
  20. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    A definite vote for NO from me. The Buffalo Bore +Ps are for STRONG guns like the Blackhawk and the Judge is NOT such a gun. The only guns those +Ps should be fired in are Rugers or .45 Colt barrels on a contender. My hot handloads, in the realm of Buffalo Bore performance, might just frag a Taurus. No way I'd ever try it, no way Jose! There's really no need for that level of power out of that thing, anyway. These loads mimic the hottest .44 magnum loads. If you're not shooting a gun that was designed to handle the .44 magnum, don't even think about it.

    As to bore diameter, slug it and measure.

    I really wonder how Buffalo Bore gets away with their .45 loads in a litigious society like ours and how many have blown up lesser guns with their loads? Things were a little safer for the nimrod .45 Colt shooter back when only handloaders could play with such loads. It was years before Speer and others even published such load data in their manuals for fear of lawsuit. .44 mag level .45 Colt loads were a hush, hush under the table cult thing for the well informed and rather brave handloader. LOL

    When you think of +P for other calibers like .38 or 9mm, you're really not talking about all that much more than standard pressure ammo. +P in .45 Colt takes on a whole nuther meaning. They down right HURT to shoot in my big, heavy Contender and I shoot that gun in .30-30 Winchester. They're much easier to shoot in my Blackhawk with the roll it gives on recoil to dissipate recoil energy. It is not unlike shooting heavy .44 mag loads.
     
  21. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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  22. gmhamilton3

    gmhamilton3 Member

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    I have a Taurus 410/45 on order and having read the previous posts do not see taking the risk of using +P in this gun. The Judge is a self defense weapon not a true hunting pistol for big game. Speer's has a 250 gr. JHP with MV=900 ME=450 and a 200 gr. JHP with MV=1000 ME=444. Either of these loads are more than sufficient for the intended purpose. In contrast, I currently carry a S&W in .38 special loaded with Rem. 110 gr. SJHP with MV=950 ME=220, so you can see that even though I am comfortable with my S&W, the Judge is quantum leap forward in personal protection. I cannot post anything about the performance of the gun until I take it to the range but I do like the combination of 000 buck and 45LC at close quarters.
     
  23. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    No

    Way!
     
  24. mreid74

    mreid74 Member

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    Taurus +p 45lc

    I have a titanium Taurus Judge 3" bbl chamered for 3" Magnums. As far as I know, I was one of the first to get one. The manual clearly states that all of their ultralight titanium models will safely fire +p loads. I was apprehensive for a while, but curiosity got the best of me and I finally shot several cor-bon .45lc +p 225gr DPX out of it with no problems. Recoil is also no problem, even with the lightweight titanium construction... makes a lot louder boom than cowboy loads tho. :)
     
  25. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    +P normally means "10% over-pressure". Which explains that blanket use of the term in the manual.

    In 45LC, the term "45LC+P" goes way, WAY past that. It's the one caliber I know of where you do NOT screw around.

    Buffalo Bore has a 325gr @ 1,300fps load - the Taurus Judge can indeed fire that. ONCE and once only.
     
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