Tax stamps - Gun registration

[kimberkid]

I should be around 30 tax stamps.... I could care less what they think. They have bigger fish to fry. Do I think the registry is unconstitutional, oh hell yeah. But I love my NFA toys so for now I must play the game.

^^^^^^^
This, but I've only got 15 stamps ... between all the 4473's I've filled out over the last 30 years, concealed carry and being on sites like this one I figure I'm already on multiple lists so why not the NFA list and enjoy whatever I can afford?

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

If by "they" you mean the ATF/FBI/CIA/IRS/Bilderburgs/Illuminatti....... NO "they" don't.

I have 4473's on about 10,000 firearms............ATF doesn't know jack squat about 9,900 of them. The only ones ATF knows about were multiple handgun purchases.


Those 9,900 Form 4473's sit in file boxes for twenty years...........and then I can destroy them. I'm looking forward to that day because they take up a lot of room.

I was under the impression that the ATF can, at any time, require you to produce such a registration form or forms documenting the purchases of a person or persons. At least such persons purchases within the last 20 years. Isn't that correct?
Thx,
B

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

No, they aren't. Here's a good explanation of what a database really is:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database

A "database" implies that ATF or whoever can simply access information at any time.....and that simply isn't true. It may take hours or days for ATF to complete a gun trace, and then only to the first retail sale by a licensed dealer.
Used guns? Good luck with that ATF!



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This is a very naive view of the actual definition of a database. Technically you are of course accurate. But in the context of the issue at hand, and the post to which you are commenting, the data to be gleaned by inspection of the 4473's are today likely used as final confirmation. That is, it is not required for fact finding which is what people in believe they are protected from in non-registration states. So, although the 'access speed' of the 4473's are slow relative to real database technology, it hardly matters.
What I and others are trying to say is that the meta data from your life is all reasonably accessible by those who are in the position to have access. And properly structured algorithms can inform them, with very high probability, of what you possess, from whom you bought them and where and to whom you may have sold. That meta-data info can then be confirmed, if desired, by checking on the 4473's.
I am not stating this to describe what side of the line I'm on in this topic. I am just stating that, for those in states where registration is not required, in the current digital age it doesn't really matter. In fact, it may lull those in the non-registration states in to a false sense of privacy.
B

 

[dogtown tom]

B!ngoFuelUSN .....I was under the impression that the ATF can, at any time, require you to produce such a registration form or forms documenting the purchases of a person or persons. At least such persons purchases within the last 20 years. Isn't that correct?

Only in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation or a firearm trace request. (ATF access to 4473's is restricted by their own regulations )

 

[dogtown tom]

B!ngoFuelUSN

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
No, they aren't. Here's a good explanation of what a database really is:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database

A "database" implies that ATF or whoever can simply access information at any time.....and that simply isn't true. It may take hours or days for ATF to complete a gun trace, and then only to the first retail sale by a licensed dealer.
Used guns? Good luck with that ATF!

This is a very naive view of the actual definition of a database. Technically you are of course accurate.

Naive but accurate?
What kind of mamby pamby comment is that?

But in the context of the issue at hand, and the post to which you are commenting, the data to be gleaned by inspection of the 4473's are today likely used as final confirmation. That is, it is not required for fact finding which is what people in believe they are protected from in non-registration states. So, although the 'access speed' of the 4473's are slow relative to real database technology, it hardly matters.

Huh?
I've read this paragraph five times and still don't know what the heck you are trying to say.

What I and others are trying to say is that the meta data from your life is all reasonably accessible by those who are in the position to have access. And properly structured algorithms can inform them, with very high probability, of what you possess, from whom you bought them and where and to whom you may have sold. That meta-data info can then be confirmed, if desired, by checking on the 4473's.

Oh good grief.
Please tell us what "algorithms" can tell you what the contents of my 4473's are.

 

[samort457]

If the government comes and tries to take our guns and some how collects a list from FFL's they still wouldn't have half the guns in the U.S. There are lots of unregistered used gun sales or guns that have been passed down or bought before 4473's were a thing that they have no idea about. Now that being said I'm not at all thrilled with tax stamps, registration, and 4473's.