Taxes on guns and ammo unconstitutional?

[Owen Sparks]

A few things to ponder.

I heard an interesting proposition on the radio this morning. One of the main argument used to eliminate the poll tax in 1964,(the 24th amendment to the constitution) was that a constitutional right (voting) should not be subject to taxation.

Why does this principle not apply to the second amendment?

Also under the first amendment your right to legal council is held to be so sacrosanct that if you can not afford council, an attorney will be provided at public expense.

Why does this not apply to people who are too poor to afford a firearm?

What about that Federal form you have to read, check answer boxes and sign? Is that not the equivalent to a literacy test? You have to be able to read and write to complete the paperwork in order to purchase a firearm, right?

Shouldn't that be unconstitutional also?

 

[BryanP]

By that logic, newspapers, television networks, radio stations and such would all be tax exempt institutions as well.

 

[Sistema1927]

Looks like something to pursue after SCOTUS declares the 2nd to be an inidvidual right in a couple of weeks.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I ddon't suppose the ACLU will support the case.

 

[danny]

Here in Illinois, periodicals (newspapers & magazines) haven't been subject to sales tax for many years after a determination that it would infringe on the 1st amendment's freedom of press.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Owen, you haven't learned yet? It's very simple: the individuals in government can do what they want, and neither a bunch of nuisance words on a piece of paper, nor you, as an individual, can stop them.

"The Constitution?" What does that mean to politicians, in actual practical terms? A mere short hurdle on whatever track they choose to run on.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[Guitargod1985]

By that logic, newspapers, television networks, radio stations and such would all be tax exempt institutions as well.

And the problem with that would be what exactly?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The are for-profit businesses. That is the problem.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The 1934 National Firearms Tax was created with the purpose of making specific firearms too expensive for the average individual to afford. It placed a $200 transfer tax on machineguns, suppressors, short barreled rifles and short barreled shotguns (AOWs and DDs were later added). At the time, handguns were also intended to be included in the tax. The government at the time understood the Second Amendment to be an individual right and thought an outright ban on classes of guns would easily be overturned as unconstitutional. They then came up with the novel idea of using the "interstate commerce clause" to tax guns out of existence. SCOTUS has never viewed the NFA tax to be unconstitutional.

 

[Lashlarue]

For those who are unaware there is a 10% federal tax on handguns and an 11% federal tax on ammo.

 

[Henry Bowman]

For those who are unaware there is a 10% federal tax on handguns and an 11% federal tax on ammo.

At least it goes to wildlife conservation and not into the general fund.

 

[ken grant]

And most people have to pay Sales Taxes on these taxes.

 

[mekender]

we had that discussion today at work... i was arguing that the fee to get an FOID in IL was similar to the poll taxes... it amounts to a fee to exercise a right...

 

[asknight]

You also have to be licensed to operate a motor vehicle in your state to be able to purchase a firearm as well. Have you ever been in a shop when someone tries to buy a firearm with another form of ID other than a D/L? I've seen counter guys actually refuse a sell to one who provided government issued ID, but it wasn't a D/L.

 

[Funderb]

I like the FWC free rifle ranges that my tax dollars paid for.

The taxes aren't that bad.

 

[RMc]

Minneapolis StarTribune v Minneapolis

In the late 1970's SCOTUS ruled that special taxes on a constitutionally protected venue or right was indeed unconstitutional. In this case a tax only on raw newsprint violated the 1st Amendment freedom of the press.

If Heller v District of Columbia is ruled to be an individual right that is subject to restriction only in the case of a "compelling government interest," after "strict scrutiny" by the courts; then challenging special excise taxes on firearm and ammuniton, would be a logical next step.

Remember, the concern here is any special tax applied only to goods essential to the exercise of a Constitutional Right. There would be no infringement of the Right to Bear Arms or Freedom of the Press if guns, ammunition or newsprint were only subject to the same general taxes that apply to all other products. Special excise taxes, on the other hand, open the door to the functional destruction of a civil right.

For a detailed discussion by Jeff Snyder (1995), on how the support of the shooting sports community for special, self-beneficial taxes may ultimately be self defeating see:

http://firearmsandliberty.com/als.v1.html#4

 

[John828]

You have the right to pay taxes. Anything you buy can and will be taxed against you in a store of commerce. You have the right to have a checkbook present during purchasing. If you cannot afford a tax, one will still be legislated for you.

Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to buy from me?

 

[m38shooter]

This is a debate that's as pointless as Republican vs. Democrat or conservative vs. liberal. I can't recall where I heard it, but I've been told that the Founding Fathers thought that the government shouldn't have the authority to tax the people and that all programs that they wanted to start should be funded by voluntary donations.

You also have to be licensed to operate a motor vehicle in your state to be able to purchase a firearm as well. Have you ever been in a shop when someone tries to buy a firearm with another form of ID other than a D/L? I've seen counter guys actually refuse a sell to one who provided government issued ID, but it wasn't a D/L.

I've never come across this. I've got very poor depth perception while moving faster than a brisk walk and as such can't drive without posing a threat to myself and others, but I've bought several firearms with my Non-Driver Identification Card. This is the reason that Form 4473 has a line for "Type of Identification Presented" in the portion that the dealer fills out.

 

[TEDDY]

Taxes

You are aware that the tax on firearem was asked for by the shooters themselves to support gun related programs."Pittman Roberts bill".and it cant be used for anything else.so dont shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[jakemccoy]

Owen,

That's interesting. I like to see thinking outside of the box. Keep it up.

Regards,
Jake

 

[SageMonkey]

Taxing speech is unconstitutional, I can't see why taxing firarms should be any different.

 

[John828]

I cannot say what I want to say. It is neither high road not applicable to this forum, but I really want to get on my soapbox. I might, but I would be banned and it would not accomplish anything beneficial.

I had a tirade typed. Deleted it. Posting this instead.