TCP * P3AT * LCP.... Who Wins in My Book?

[rhoggman]

I'm sure this has been debated off the map around, the moon, through the woods, and all the way to grandmother's house on this forum, so I'm just going to quickly give my opinion.

I'm not a real big dude. 5'7", short but stout, and basically sexier than anyone you know; however, finding a comfortably concealable hund gun for some situations has been rather difficult. I had a breif stint with a PM 40, but it didn't work out. It's width, combined with it's shortness caused it to be a little irritating on my plush skin. I can conceal any number of guns with a similar width that are larger than the PM 40, and do it in a way that is more comfortable.

Due to my inability to find a small autoloader that was convenient and REALLY compact I started off my retarded quest with an LCP. Very reliable, very light, very compact, easily concealable.... Bad trigger pull, not so accurate (in my hands), and I didn't like the visible wear on the gun that basically became more noticeable and increasingly evident with every range visit. I slowed down on the shooting after 450 rounds, and probably had a total of 650 rounds down the pipe while I owned it.

I figured I better sell it before it went into the unmarketable status. Bluing was wearing off on the slide (to be expected... I carried it a lot), the polymer frame was wearing from holsters, the aluminum frame was chipping away below the ejection port, and the slide rails were smoothing out creating quite a bit of extra play in the slide.

I realized after I got rid of the LCP that I missed how convenient it was... how comfortable it was, and how easy it was to take everywhere without it being a burden of one kind or another.

Found a used P3AT on vaguntrader.com w/ parkerized slide for $200. Snagged it up, and immediately noticed it actually had a lighter smoother trigger pull than my old LCP. This one also had a belt clip which was convenient.

Took the P3AT to the range and did not have any problems using PMC (dirtiest crap ammo packaged for your pleasure at 24.99/ box). My second surprise with the Kel-Tec was my noticeably better groups. Not sure if it was due to the trigger pull, or the gun overall, but I was definitely a better shot with the P3AT. Perceived recoil was less as well. I was really liking the P3AT except for the rough texture of the frame. The Kel-Tec frame feels like a cat's tongue against your skin, and is all together unpleasant. I wore the little sucker with disdain most of the time, and was continually aware of its feline like properties on my man handles.

Traded out the PM 40 and got a TCP plus some cash in return. Larger sights, better trigger pull, slide lock, slightly longer barrel, smooth frame with front and back serrations on the grip, 2 magazines, stainless slide, and overly queer bulldawg holster with magnetic buttons.... Anyways I was super impressed at the range. The perceived recoil is noticeably less snappy than both the LCP & P3AT. The sights are slightly larger, and stick out from the top of the slide, which made a huge difference for me along with the lighter smoother trigger pull. At 7 - 10 yards I was sinking the 10 ring like a pro. My favorite part is that it operates like a normal pistol. The addition of a slide stop really makes a range visit more fun, and makes a ton of sense in a tactical situation as well.

I had 0 problems with PMC & Remington UMC FMJ....

Not saying I have found the perfect pocket autoloading mousegun, nor am I going to claim it will hold up better than my LCP did, but so far I like it much better than the LCP or the P3AT. As long as it continues to be reliable, and does not show excessive wear I won't have to move on down the line..... I always figured in this game I would end up with a Sig P238 before it was all said and done. Who knows? For now I am very impressed, and very happy with the TCP. I believe Taurus has produced an AMERICAN MADE winner.

 

[rhoggman]

Noticing he barrel was slightly longer on the TCP than the LCP & P3AT I looked around for ballastic comparisons of all three guns but did not turn up much.

Anyone know how it stacks up or if this little bit of barrel length makes any difference?

 

[LightningMan]

Don't forget the Kahr P380, the Diamondback, the Micro eagle, or the new S&W Bodyguard. Lots of choices, are good. LM

 

[docsleepy]

Well, I don't have a LCP or P3AT but I do like my little Taurus TCP quite a bit. I have the "black" stainless slide, and after maybe 200-250 rounds, I dont see any wear.

I am not anywhere near a pro. At 7 yards I get 5-shot groups of about 2" with a full size Taurus PT99; same distance with the TCP I'm around 5 or 6" groups -- but way better than what I normally get with a 2" snubbie (double action).

I handload and I don't push my luck with highpower charges. Around 125 ft lbs - 150 ft lbs and the TCP is quite fun to shoot. I was not expecting that! I can even tolerate full power commercial rounds, but I have to make certain my fingernails are trimmed or I'll get a cut from the recoil. With the lower power rounds that I handload, I can find 60-80% of the cases within 5 feet or so. They go up and over my head. 380 ammo is not easy to find and not cheap, but reloading makes it fairly cheap.

If I'm in the shade, I can't see those sights hardly at all. But then, this is a SMALL firearm meant for concealment.

 

[docsleepy]

Well, I don't have a LCP or P3AT but I do like my little Taurus TCP quite a bit. I have the "black" stainless slide, and after maybe 200-250 rounds, I dont see any wear.

I am not anywhere near a pro. At 7 yards I get 5-shot groups of about 2" with a full size Taurus PT99; same distance with the TCP I'm around 5 or 6" groups -- but way better than what I normally get with a 2" snubbie (double action).

I handload and I don't push my luck with highpower charges. Around 125 ft lbs - 150 ft lbs and the TCP is quite fun to shoot. I was not expecting that! I can even tolerate full power commercial rounds, but I have to make certain my fingernails are trimmed or I'll get a cut from the recoil. With the lower power rounds that I handload, I can find 60-80% of the cases within 5 feet or so. They go up and over my head. 380 ammo is not easy to find and not cheap, but reloading makes it fairly cheap.

If I'm in the shade, I can't see those sights hardly at all. But then, this is a SMALL firearm meant for concealment.

 

[killchain]

P3AT for the win. The oldie goldie.

And Kel-Tecs are made in America as far as I know.

I liked the post, very funny.

 

[legion3]

And Kel-Tecs are made in America as far as I know

So are Rugers. Do all Taurus TCP's come with an internal locking system? Or is it an option?

Also google 'Taurus TCP problems', almost every site has someone with issues. Has Taurus fixed the issues they seem to have had complaints over?

Hopefully yours will have no issues.


And my ruger has been carried everyday and over 1000 rounds through it and is not wearing at all.

You must have rough pockets or a terrible pocket holster.

 

[rhoggman]

And my ruger has been carried everyday and over 1000 rounds through it and is not wearing at all.

Who knows maybe they continually improved the LCP... Mine was post recall. You have no wear on the slide rails or under the ejection port? What about on the frame directly below the feed ramp?

I understand that these are places that are expected to show signs of use; however, after suck a low round count I could not believe the amount of evidence. 450 rounds in my book is minuscule.

If you have went 1,000 rounds and show no signs I must have got jipped, or you got lucky. I realize these are not range guns, but come on.

 

[harmon rabb]

Also google 'Taurus TCP problems', almost every site has someone with issues. Has Taurus fixed the issues they seem to have had complaints over?

Hopefully yours will have no issues.

Tauruses seem to be hit and miss. The design is a good one; they just have quality control issues in manufacturing sometimes.

 

[Steve 48]

When I first bought my TCP , I cleaned it and lubed lightly and went to the range.I had 2 boxes of UMC's and had a man size target. I have owned a LCP and a P3AT too and not even close to the accuracy of the TCP. All 100 rounds at 15 yards in the head area with no misses. I had to raise the sight picture a bit but all hits!! I'll carry the TCP.

 

[legion3]

Mine was post recall. You have no wear on the slide rails or under the ejection port? What about on the frame directly below the feed ramp?

Mine was a very early pre recall gun. I got mine about a month after they hit the shelves.

$270 OTD at a gunshow with an extra mag. The older gentleman who sold it had arthritis and did not like it. It was a great price at that early stage.

That being said,

I have no wear under the ejection port, other than scuffs nothing on the frame under the feed ramp. And nothing on the slide rails beyond normal use. Standard wear, where a gun is supposed to have it.

Mine did have the infamous peening issue earlyy on but it self corrected itself and when the gun came back from recall it was machined back and the area removed.

Anyway since it has been flawless I see no reason to part with it. But even if it was wearing the finish a lot, I would not part with it as it would still be flawless and a worn gun that works is better tahn a safe queen that don't.

Not suggesting your TCP does not work. Just saying looks are one of the last items of neccessity in a SD carry gun.

What is the saying,

a 1911 is what you how your friends.

a Glock is what you show your enemies.

 

[kokapelli]

The TCP I have has been fine through about 250 rounds and is pretty accurate for what it is.

I have owned and shot most of the true pocket 380s with the Kahr 380 being the only one I have not shot yet.

IMO the P238 is the only 380 pocket pistol that feels and shoots like a full size gun.

My son shot my P238 last week and is now going to get rid of his LCP and get a P238.

My advise is shoot as many of them as you can before you buy one and then buy the one that shoots best for you.

 

[rhoggman]

Not suggesting your TCP does not work. Just saying looks are one of the last items of neccessity in a SD carry gun.

What is the saying,

a 1911 is what you how your friends.

a Glock is what you show your enemies.

Actually my entire post was devoted to my percieved perception that the TCP was a better pistol based on functionality not looks.

I am glad that your LCP held up better than mine. Like I said I never had any problems with the operation of the pistol... just that it was showing heavy signs of use.

 

[Ala Dan]

Gott's too go with KEL-TEC's P3AT .380; nairy a problem and priced right~!

 

[legion3]

Actually my entire post was devoted to my percieved perception that the TCP was a better pistol based on functionality not looks.

I am glad that your LCP held up better than mine. Like I said I never had any problems with the operation of the pistol... just that it was showing heavy signs of use.

True, and the TCP definately has some admirable and desirable features but you did say you ditched a functional pistol (the LCP) because of looks so...


Enjoy the TCP and hopefully you will have no issues with it as some others apparently have had. Cheers!

 

[rhoggman]

True, and the TCP definately has some admirable and desirable features but you did say you ditched a functional pistol (the LCP) because of looks so...

Because when looking at it you could see an excessive amount of wear, not because of the way it looked. It was never a painting in my living room. It had nothing to do with taste or style and design.

If any of my pistols were to begin to show the same signs as my LCP they would be out the door in a hurry.

I have a Heritage Rough Rider with about 3k rounds through it, and the pot metal frame does not have little chips and dings from being shot. I can't think of a single other semi-auto pistol that I own besides a "pink" Walther P22 that I can disassemble and visually identify where metal is disappearing from the frame. The Walther technically is not even mine, but to its credit has had a few thousand rounds down the tube, and shows less physical wear than my LCP did.

I should have taken photos of this, but at the time really didn't think about doing a post on the subject.

I actually fully expect the TCP to show signs of wear in the exact same places as the LCP; however, I have noticed that the TCP does not produce the infamous LCP smiley faces on the ends of FMJ rounds when the slide returns to battery. Virtually every round loaded into the chamber after firing a round was imprinted with one of these on my LCP. This problem was well documented on the elsiepea forum. The LCP was designed in such a way that as far as I know that it happenens with every pistol. Does not affect operation; however, this is one of the things that produces excessive wear for such a low round count.

The TCP magazines seem to deliver the face of the new round directly onto the feed ramp and the round therefore does not connect with the frame at all during operation.

I still expect it to get chewed up where the empty case impacts the frame during ejection. This occurs in P3ATs as well. It may not affect operation, but IMO is a bit of an eyesore, and one must assume that it only continues to worsen over time. This does not occur on any of my other carry pistols, it doesn't occur on the Kahr, Sig, DE, NAA pistols..... Can't speak for all of them, but I have a funny feeling in he next couple of years I may.

I like to shoot, and whenever I do I run some rounds through my carry pistols, and I always inspect and clean them afterwords. It doesn't take me too long to get a few hundred rounds down range in a small .380. Maybe a few months tops. Now that ammo is available I will soon know if the TCP is worthy of true praise. My next purchase will be the Diamondback if it does not. After that the Sig.

 

[Cards81fan]

This is what I wrote on March 27th in a different thread on this forum:

Today I fired about 3 magazines through my father's new TCP. I am ready to trade up from my LCP to one of these for several reasons:

1. The trigger was smoother, shorter, and lighter - but not too short or too light for a carry piece
2. The trigger guard is angled/sloped out, and not back in towards your trigger finger. This allows more room for you if you are wearing gloves (I cannot fit a gloved finger in my LCP without working it in there, and I have small hands). This also prevents the trigger finger from getting slapped against the inside of the guard, which can cause it to go numb (happens to me occasionally)
3. The reset is noticeably shorter on the TCP. About one our of every 20 shots with my LCP I will not release the trigger enough to reset it.
4. The palm swell is a bit fuller on the TCP. Not much, but enough it makes it more comfortable IMHO
5. It has a REAL slide lock and release, meaning it locks back on the last fired round of the magazine


I am happy with my LCP for what it is (carried often, shot infrequently), but the TCP really has refined some of the shortcomings that existed in other micro .380 pistols. I would find myself shooting it more at the range than my LCP if I owned one. As it stands now, I only shoot my LCP enough to stay proficient, then it's off to my full-size pistol.

 

[benzy2]

rhoggman - I agree with most of what you state as pros and cons of the three pistols other than the wear issue. My LCP, though not shot a ton, shows no signs of excessive wear. The slide has loosened a little but nothing that wouldn't be considered normal in the round count it has seen. So far mine has worn like most any pistol I have shot before and nothing out of normal. I would think your LCP was a bit of a lemon at least in the wear department. The other points seem fairly spot on but, at least with my use of two LCPs, I haven't noticed wear to be an issue. Sure they aren't built to handle thousands of rounds each year, but they have held up to mild range use fairly well so far.

 

[kokapelli]

P3AT for the win. The oldie goldie.

And Kel-Tecs are made in America as far as I know.

So is the TCP, Kahr P380, the Diamondback and the Micro Desert Eagle.

 

[Cards81fan]

Any weapon in this class will have to be made in the USA, as this size of handgun would not score enough "points" under the Gun Control Act to be imported.

 

[rhoggman]

I would like to hear from someone who knows they have 500+ rounds through their LCP, and can tell me that it is wearing at the same rate as they would expect from any pistol.....

Maybe my LCP was defunct; however, I don't think it was any different than any other LCP.

Most people probably don't shoot their LCPs much, and after a couple 50 round boxes are comfortable it will operate correctly. For this reason maybe they don't notice much wear. I quit counting the rounds in mine after 450, but I think I only put a few more boxes through it after that. Maybe it was more I honestly don't know.

I have exactly 100 rounds through he TCP at this point, and I am the 3rd owner. I see none of the same wear points evident in the TCP that I saw on the LCP.

I will update this thread after every range trip.

Like the LCP though.... I have had no function issues.

 

[mick53]

Quote:
And Kel-Tecs are made in America as far as I know

So are Rugers. Do all Taurus TCP's come with an internal locking system? Or is it an option?

Also google 'Taurus TCP problems', almost every site has someone with issues. Has Taurus fixed the issues they seem to have had complaints over?

Hopefully yours will have no issues.


And my ruger has been carried everyday and over 1000 rounds through it and is not wearing at all.

You must have rough pockets or a terrible pocket holster.

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Last edited by legion3; June 16, 2010 at 05:08 AM.

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The above post is, uh, misleading. I think the guy who wrote it is one of those single-minded Taurus bashers. And there are many, some with good reason, no doubt.

But not all Taurus firearms are trash. The TCP sure isn't. It's quite good in fact.

Where to begin....

And Kel-Tecs are made in America as far as I know

So are Rugers.

The Taurus TCP is made in the USA, not all Taurus handguns are, but this one is. Did you not know this, buddy, or did you want to mislead people into thinking it was a (OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!) "foreign made gun."

Also google 'Taurus TCP problems', almost every site has someone with issues. Has Taurus fixed the issues they seem to have had complaints over?

So I googled "Taurus TCP problems" and got 9660 hits.

Then I googled "Ruger LCP problems" and got 43,400 hits.

Why don't you try telling the whole story here, pal? So you googled about the Taurus TCP but not the Ruger LCP, is that it?

OR did you google both of them and just leave out the number of hits on the Ruger problems?

I have owned both. I bought the LCP first because I have had good luck with Rugers in the past.

But I ended up dumping the LCP because it had so many deficiencies and tried a TCP. The TCP is superior to the LCP in every way.

There was not one, not a single instance, of the LCP having any quality whatsoever that was superior to the TCP. They were equal in some instances but where there was a difference, the TCP won out every time.

First, the TCP doesn't have a "cutsie pie" name like "Elsie Pea" and I never heard anyone yet refer to a TCP as "she," or "her." Some guys talk about their "Elsie Peas" like they are dating them or something. These guys tend to use up a lot of gun lube I think.

Now on to the serious stuff:

The sights on both suck (though the TCP's are marginally larger), so they are the same.

Mag. capacity is the same.

Overall size and weight are virtually the same.

Here are the differences:

First, the TCP is $30-$50 LESS than the LCP AND it is the (much) better pistol. Read on. This is not hor air. The facts are indisputable. THE TCP BEATS THE LCP HANDS DOWN, BOYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

TCP has (and I have tested other TCPs and LCPs, not just my own) a slightly shorter and much lighter and smoother trigger pull than the LCP.

TCP slide locks back on last round (LCP slide does not).

Taurus gives you a second magazine should you need/want to reload and continue shooting after that first mag locks back.

(The Ruger comes with a single mag and, unless your counting, you only know you're out of ammo because the gun ain't firing while you're pulling that inferior trigger).

Recoil on the LCP was considerably sharper than the recoil of the TCP. The recoil on the LCP is by no means unmanageable, but it is real "snappy."

On the whole, I found the TCP to be more accurate than the LCP, particularly with follow up shots. I attribute this to the milder recoil.

Taurus gives you a little Bulldog brand belt carrier/holster with the pistol.

The Taurus TCP has never been recalled. The LCP has.

My LCP was rather picky with ammo. This was evidenced by lots of jams caused by both by failures to feed and failures to eject.

My TCP has had one failure to eject so far out of 575 rds.

It occured on the 72nd round (ok, I'll admit it, I'm a round counter) when I was doing some true rapid fire. It has not failed since then.

Among the 574 rounds it has handled without a problem are Rem. Golden Saber, some old PMC crap I had lying around loose in a plastic bag, lot of Magtech and some Winchester White.

No probs be it with FMJ or any JHP. I was thinking of trying some of that hot Buffalo Bore stuff but why chance it?

The LCP liked the Rem. Golden Saber the best, but it still had problems with it. I know different handguns like different ammo and so forth but I don't like a handgun dictating to me what ammo it will shoot. The TCP shoots everything I've tried in it without problem so far.

Normally I would say Ruger makes a superior product to Taurus. And I still think that's true, in general.

BUT, when it comes down the the Ruger LCP and the Taurus TCP, the Taurus wins everytime.

Keep in mind, I'm something of a range rat and the TCP is now (mostly) my EDC so it comes to the range with me.

Every time I see someone with a LCP or a TCP I tell them I like comparing my TCP to LCPS and to other TCPs. People generally shoot a mag through mine and I shoot a mag through theirs.

When it comes down to TCP vs. LCP, it's TCP every time. And when it's TCP vs. TCP, I have found the TCPs remarkably consistent quality-wise. And that quality has always been real good for a tight little compact pistol.

I've never owned the Kelt-Tec, so I can't/won't comment on it.

 

[kokapelli]

I have a TCP and pretty much agree with everything you said but I would like to point out that the problem figures are a little misleading since Ruger has probably sold way more LCPs than Taurus has sold TCPs.

 

[mick53]

Koka,

You may be right. i hadn't thought of the (potential) disparity in the number of LCPs sold vs. the number of TCPs sold. I wonder where we could find that number.

Do you suppose the ration is over 4.? to 1 for the LCP in sales figures?

If so, the Ruger marketing department should get some credit.

But the guys who buy the LCP should not have been blind to the TCP just because Taurus makes it.

It's a much better little auto than the LCP. Much better

i just found it curious that the other guy either didn't google "Ruger LCP problems" OR he did and did not reveal the results because it hurt his already distorted and misleading claims about the TCP.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Any weapon in this class will have to be made in the USA, as this size of handgun would not score enough "points" under the Gun Control Act to be imported.

Absolutely correct. However, if you want your money going to a USA company, the TCP is out.

There ain't nothing like the real thing in .380.....Walther PPKS.

What? You mean overweight, over sized and sharp recoiling?

The PPK had it's hay day. And it's over. Many smaller and lighter 9mm's today are more accurate and more pleasant to fire.