Teen Expelled From School For Turning In Found Gun

[Jackal]

I went to school many times with a pocket knife in my backpack. I had always forgotten it there over the weekend and would forget to take it out for school. I would always hand it to the teacher in the morning and he would always give it back to me at the end of the day. I'm 21, so this wasnt so long ago.

 

[migoi]

Jackal, I'd say...

there is a world of difference in your actions vs if you had forgotten a knife in your backpack and only brought it out for the teacher when it's discovery seemed likely due to a search.

It's pretty much like in this situation. There is a world of difference between a kid finding a pellet gun in the bathroom, then immediately seeking out an adult and turning if over to him and a kid finding a pellet gun in the bathroom then waiting until school staff announces 'we need to talk to all of you about a gun being on campus' to step forward with the "I found this in the bathroom".

Other questions that I had on reading the original story was: Did he go past any other staff members prior to turning it in? How much time elapsed between finding it and turning it in? What exactly did he do with it during the gap between finding and turning in? Did he make statements to the admin folks that we don't know about and what were those statements.

All of these unaswered questions should have prompted folks to think "Maybe I need to hear ALL of the story before I decide the school folks are evil incarnate."

migoi

 

[carebear]

Should the fact that it is, in the end, "just" a pellet gun still enter in? Or are we past the argument that an inanimate object, not displayed, is essentially harmless? That the policy is bad, not just because it is "zero tolerance", but because it doesn't really address the problem of (school) violence at all, any more than any ban does.

We're just accepting the "negative moral value" given to the pellet gun as acceptable when the actual action committed is merely not turning in someone else's found property, like a wallet, or a hat.

I understand "them's the rules" and it appears the kid didn't follow them and needs to deal with the consequences; but when did we start buying into those kind of rules without even a comment?

 

[Old Fuff]

In many of today's public schools panic has replaced reason. In a politically correct environment circumstances don't matter. A first-grader with a toy will be stomped on as quickly as an older student with a water pistol (Yup, that happened to the son of one of our members), and no distinction is made between a true firearm and an air powder gun. Anything remotely associated with guns is punishable. Guns are to be demonized and propagandized against. When they are noticed at all it is in a context of being instruments of violence.

Normally expulsion is limited to students that have a history of disruptive or worse behavior, or to ones that clearly represents a danger to others. In any case they (or more likely their parents) are allowed to present an appeal to the school board during a fair hearing. That would not seem to be what happened in the present case.

It is clear that in many places the “education establishment,” is trying to reduce or eliminate what is sometimes called the “gun culture,” and are allied with those in congress that actively push for more R&S (Reasonable & Sensible) gun control laws. The culture they would like to dispose of is us – people who own and use firearms as part of our heritage. Sometimes they seem surprised (not to mention disturbed) when we fight back.

The young man in question may have made some mistakes, but he is only 13. He did not threaten or assault anyone, and his record at the school would seem to be clean. The gun in question was not a firearm. Yet the school system has decided he is to be expelled and sent to an alternative school intended for students that probably are disruptive and possibly dangerous. It is likely that the quality of his education will take a sharp downward turn. This is a tragedy in the making, the full consequences of which are yet unknown.

Do we not have a right to demand better?

 

[Joe Demko]

Do we not have a right to demand better?

You know what you could be doing to make it better. Are you?

 

[migoi]

I believe...

the public in any given area should question what rules apply in their local school. That's not what has been happening in this thread though.

As more details emerge (details hinted at in the original post but ignored by some when it didn't fit their preconceived notions) it becomes clearer that this wasn't necessarily a "zero tolerance" situation. According to the story the person that brought the pellet gun to campus was arrested. The "finders keepers" guy was only required to take an alternative educational route. It looks like the school folks did see a difference in culpability and adjusted the consequences accordingly. If you are of the opinion the consequences were too harsh, you're entitled to your opinion.

If folks have a problem with any negative consequence being administered then the most proper course of actions is to start a campaign toward the local educational activity and the folks in charge of the educational system within their area and state.

Do folks really want there to be no consequences for bringing or possessing a pellet gun on campus? Considering the number of posts within these forums where members have stated "I'd shoot a guy using a pellet gun to accost me because the price for misestimating bore size as .177 rather than .22 is too high" I'm thinking that is a direction folks should think long and hard about before emarking.

You folks REALLY want better public schools? Open your wallets (and I'm not talking about teacher salaries either) build more, less populated schools. A source of many of the problems with the public school system... the schools have too many students. One of the newer trends in public education is to attempt to "personalize" each student's educational experience...not an easy task with 2500-3000 students on campus. Of course at the high school level less populated schools can create their own problems... such as how do you justify AP (advanced placement) classes when only 2 students sign up for them?

Everyone SHOULD be questioning the educational system within their area, but coming onto an internet forum and calling teachers and school staff idiots isn't going to accomplish that.

Not to mention any fence sitting teacher that happens to wander across our little encampment on the internet most certainly is not going to be swayed toward our way of thinking about firearms.

One other question I've got. If the mass media is so leftist and the educational system is so leftist why does the mass media spend so much time trying to exaggerate the fault of the educators?

migoi

 

[Mikebnice]

smart kid suspended for giving teacher bottle of wine

this happened in Georgia a couple of years ago.



http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2006/12/12/1204wherenow.html



WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO ... NATHANIEL COSMO ZINKOW, smart kid suspended for giving teacher bottle of wine
He's now a Marine, veteran of Iraq

By BILL MONTGOMERY

Published on: 12/04/06

As a well-meaning honor student in Cobb County nine years ago, 13-year-old Nathaniel Cosmo Zinkow brought a gift-wrapped bottle of imported wine to his French teacher as a Christmas gift.

His thoughtfulness was rewarded with a 10-day suspension from school.

An eighth-grade, straight A student at Griffin Middle School in Smyrna, Zinkow violated the school board's "zero tolerance" policy barring drugs and alcoholic beverages on campus, even a sealed bottle of Moutin Cadet Bordeaux direct from Paris.

Now 22, Cosmo Zinkow (pronounced "Zin-koh" ) is Sgt. Zinkow of the U.S. Marine Corps. With a tour in Iraq behind him, he currently is stationed at Naval Air Station Atlanta in Cobb County, repairing and maintaining some of the military's fastest jet fighters — the F/A-18 Hornet.

He and his wife Jennifer, who teaches prekindergarten children at a private school in Cherokee County, live in a subdivision near Acworth with their dog Link, a boxer mix.

Born in Smyrna, Zinkow said he prefers being called by the middle name his father — who ran a business refurbishing older model Japanese and German telescopes for observatories — gave him. "Everybody calls me Cosmo."

He grew up in Smyrna, which he said was then "a small, friendly town where it was customary to give kids something to bring their teacher when the holidays came around." The bottle of red wine, from a parental trip to Paris, seemed an appropriate gift for a teacher he liked. The fact that she taught French also seemed to indicate she'd appeciate wine from France.

Zinkow didn't know his teacher was a teetotaler and that his school's no-tolerance policy for alcohol was rigid. The teacher immediately turned him in.

"She was a new teacher and opened the package in front of other students. I think she might have worried one of them would tell the administration ..." Zinkow said.

The no-alcohol policy remains in effect at Cobb County schools, but school system spokesman Jay Dillon said it isn't as inflexible as it was when Zinkow was in school. "I believe principals today have more leeway to interpret a situation and the circumstances." Zinkow's suspension, he said, resulted from "a very literal interepretation of the policy that didn't account for that."

Although the suspension had no lasting effect on his grades or his life, Zinkow still thinks it was unfair. "A student right before me was suspended 10 days for having marijuana he was giving other students. For me to get the same penalty? Ridiculous!"

Zinkow, his younger brother, and mother Connie Zinkow, a Delta Air Lines flight attendant, moved to Hickory, N.C., her hometown, a year after the suspension. A week after Zinkow graduated in 2002, inspired by a history teacher and Marine veteran's tales of his service and the terrorist attacks of 9/11, he enlisted in the Corps.

"I wanted to see if I had what it took — Parris Island was a kick in the [rear] but it's like that for everyone. There were plenty of times I thought I wasn't going to make it — like every waking moment."

His mother saw a different Zinkow return from Marine boot camp. "He was never wild in high school, but he did get that 'senioritis.' He got a little bit lazy ... you know how it is. The Marines brought back the old Cosmo, and even better. A lot more responsible, a lot more family-oriented, a sense of what's right and what's wrong."

Zinkow chose aviation mechanics as his military career field — "it takes a separate level of craziness to be a Marine grunt [infantryman]," he said — and was sent to Pensacola NAS in Florida for what would be a year of training in his specialty.

In February 2005, Zinkow was sent to Iraq for a seven-month tour at a fighter base northwest of Baghdad, where he repaired and maintained the airframes and hydraulic brakes, the landing gear and flight control systems on the combat jets under sporadic fire from Iraqi insurgents. "His base was rocketed a few times," his wife, Jennifer, said. "But he doesn't talk about it much to me."

Zinkow said nobody he knew was wounded or killed but there were close calls. "They'd fire two or three rockets or mortars ... every once in a while, they'd fire 10 or 12 at us," he said. At least once, a shell hit within 100 yards of him, he said.

Recently promoted in rank, Zinkow has been at NAS Atlanta since his return from Iraq in September 2005. He plans to re-enlist next summer but isn't sure whether he will make a career of the military.

"I can tell you this, I didn't join the military just to sit at home. I like to serve a purpose — it's our job."


"What ever happened to ..." is a weekly feature catching up with people in the news. Are you wondering about the fate or fortune of former newsmakers? Tell us who. E-mail [email protected].

 

[atek3]

I brought an inert hand grenade to show and tell when I was in second grade... boy how times have changed... and I'm only 25!

atek3

 

[bclark1]

All in favor of disowning Plainfield and moving it to Cook County... aye!

 

[Old Fuff]

Joe Demko:

You know what you could be doing to make it better. Are you?

Ya' Joe, but I march to a different drummer…

In our community we actually have more charter schools then we do public ones, and they’re number is rapidly growing. For example there are at least three private schools offering classes K through 12, and only one public high school. The charter schools have smaller classes, higher academic scores, and far less administrative bureaucracy then you find in a typical public school system. Also, in Arizona the state’s school aid funds go to whatever school the student attends.

Jeff Cooper once said in effect that, “a bureaucrat is someone whose brain has been replaced with a rulebook.” I have seen too many good kids messed up by some school bureaucrat who lacked any common sense and couldn’t get past his handbook, so I actively and financially supported some better alternatives.

I only wish that the youngster who was the center of this controversy could be living down here. His educational and lifetime prospects would be much better.

 

[chas_martel]

If we really want to fix the problem we should get the Fed Govt outta
education. We should not treat those that run the schools like
other govt workers. They should be held accountable, you should be
able to sue them and have them jailed if warranted.

The best plan would be to abolish ALL govt schools. Then
hold parents accountable if they don't provide an education
for their kids.

 

[migoi]

Why stop with teachers...

for the whole accountability thing? Why shouldn't the auto workers that assembled a "lemon" be held accountable and jailed? Why shouldn't store workers who steal my time with their ineptitude be jailed and held accountable?

Actually, just impementing half your plan... hold parents accountable for their children... would solve a whole lot of problems. We're currently dealing with a student whose mother gives him all bad news on a phone call during lunch. Anything she needs to tell him that is in any way negative she does on the phone during his lunch time. Why, you ask? Simply because she knows that when he gets any type of bad news he goes into a tantrum, hits things (or people if they catch his attention), and spends some period of time swearing and she doesn't want him to break things in her house. We can't even get her to give us a warning prior to calling him so we could ensure the safety of the other students in a better fashion.

There is a big push for holding teachers accountable, no problem, just make sure you hold everyone involved in the child's life equally accountable.

You also might want to run the whole "abolish schools" thing past your fellow citizens... especially that sizable portion that whails loudly when school is closed and they actually have to deal with their children for the day.

migoi

 

[Aguila Blanca]

The Death of Common Sense

THE DEATH OF COMMON SENSE

Common Sense lived a long life but died in the United States from heart failure on the brink of the new millennium. No one really knows how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools, hospitals, homes and factories, and helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness. For decades, petty rules, silly laws, and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, and that life isn't always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple credos: sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and winning isn't everything (it's okay to come in second).

A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived trends including body piercing, whole language, and "new math." But his health declined when he became infected with the "If-it-only-helps-one-person-it's-worth-it" virus. In recent decades his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of well intentioned but overbearing regulations. He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers. His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero-tolerance policies.

Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, a teen suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch, and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition. It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but could not inform the parent when a female student was pregnant or wanted an abortion.

Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from the Boy Scouts to professional sports. Finally, when a woman, too stupid to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, was awarded a huge settlement, Common Sense threw in the towel.

As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments regarding questionable regulations such as those for low flow toilets, rocking chairs, and stepladders. Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by two stepbrothers and a stepsister: My Rights, Only Me and Ima Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

Note: This piece was first published March 15, 1998 in the Indianpolis Star. It has been "modified" and "edited" by others and circulated on the Internet, even sent to me several times. Imagine my surprise to see it attributed to some guy named Anonymous. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I take having my work circulated on the web as a compliment.[/quote]

Lori Borgman www.loriborgman.com

 

[NoPhilly]

At 13, I would have been target shooting after school if I would have found that BB gun.

 

[gak]

I spoke to a guy for about 2 hours during a high school city band and choir competition. On Monday he brought a .22 to school and shot a teacher. To this day I'm not sure if anything we talked about set him off...

My view of schools was always pretty grim. For example, my friends mom works in a school doing data entry. Every year they have a raffle among the teachers for stacks of school supplies. They told his mom they had to take all the leftover stuff home otherwise they couldn't demand more money for supplies the next year.

Also, it was always the most liberal history and english teachers who "dipped" into the student dues funds for "weekend teacher parties" with food and booze. Odd how the people who demand equality for all are the ones that grab the most for themselves and refuse to part with even a penny of their own money.