Teen Jailed for Burning Flag

[Flyboy]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162684,00.html

MARYVILLE, Tenn. — A teenager was jailed for nine days after being accused of burning an American flag on the Fourth of July, and he faces trial next month.

While the case could test a state statute against flag burning — an act the U.S. Supreme Court says is protected under the First Amendment (search) — prosecutors said Andrew Elisha Staley (search) has yet to argue that he was exercising free speech rights.

"Bottom line is, the kid got drunk," said Lisa Lee, his mother. "He's never been in trouble before."

Staley, 18, is accused of taking the flag from a residence and setting it on fire. His father said the teenager "has no reason for anger against the United States" and could easily have ignited a garbage can instead of a flag.

"He was brought up in church, and he knows right from wrong," Doc Staley said.

Doc Staley said his son has been "floundering around" since dropping out of high school. "This is where the drinking came in. And he's not very good at it," the father said.

The teenager was released from jail Thursday on his own recognizance while he awaits his Aug. 2 trial on charges of desecrating a venerated object, underage drinking, littering, evading arrest, burning personal property and theft.

The Tennessee flag-burning statute (search) makes the crime a misdemeanor, punishable by less than a year in jail and up to $2,500 fine.

Now, the drinking, littering, and evading arrest charges are probably going to get him, but I thought we'd settled the issue of even having such laws as "desecrating a venerated object."

Thoughts?

 

[BryanP]

Add in theft and destruction of private property. But destruction of a venerated object is a bs law.

 

[No_Brakes23]

I can't stand flagburners, I think if they don't like us, they need to get the hell out.

That being said, criminalizing flagburning goes against what the flag should stand for. I would rather deal with the hypocritical flagburners than with fascist laws.

 

[Sindawe]

Yep, theft and destruction of private property, unless HE owned the flag that was burned.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Doc Staley said his son has been "floundering around" since dropping out of high school. "This is where the drinking came in. And he's not very good at it," the father said.

Sounds to me like the father is a real stand-up guy who's even managed to retain his sense of humor in the midst of a sad situation. Oh, and sadly, he has a putz for a son. Hope the boy grows out of the stupidity before he becomes a Darwin Award candidate.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Doc Staley said his son has been "floundering around" since dropping out of high school. "This is where the drinking came in. And he's not very good at it," the father said.

Maybe practice will make perfect?

 

[walking arsenal]

NO! NO! Stupid, you blow out the fire on the shot THEN drink it! Now stop drop and roll!!

 

[Solo]

Joo vill vespect zee flag, ja!

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

"He was brought up in church, and he knows right from wrong," Doc Staley said.

If nothing else, this points out the fact that going to church and being a good person who knows and acts "right" (as opposed to "wrong") do not necessarily share a link.

LOADS of people are evil scumbags, and people say, "Oh, but he was a churchgoing man!"

BTK was a church president. He tortured, sexually abused, and murdered a whole slew of people.

So I would love it if people would shut the hell up about church, and their insistence that going there means someone is guaranteed to be a good person.

I'm a good person, and I haven't gone to church since I was in my early teens.

It is not a prerequisite to being good.

-Jeffrey

 

[beerslurpy]

Who cares? Its not like the flag had a wife and children to support.

I wish there was one tenth the outrage every time rumsfeld stop/lossed someone and they got killed by an IED.

A flag doesnt have any more property rights than a charcoal briquette. You may have property rights in the flag you own, but no one else does, certainly not the f*cking government. It is yours to dispose of as you wish. You can hang it out front with pride, hang it upside down or use it as a wick for a molotov cocktail. It is no one's business but your own.

If political speech isnt protected, then what the hell is?

 

[confed sailor]

ok ok ok

no law against burning a flag, but could we have a law protecting citizens who try to stop the act?

i know i know i sound like a brownshirt. but id like to exercise my freedom of speech and set him on fire.

my 2 cents

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

I can't stand flagburners, I think if they don't like us, they need to get the hell out.

That's an ignorant statement.


The only difference between you, when you campaign to change something about our government or our society (by voting, leafletting, posting on the internet, running for office...) and a flagburner who also is trying to change the same things, is that he also chooses to express his dissatisfaction by burning a flag.

For you to say that he has no right to do so is the same as saying that the flag DOESN'T stand for freedom, and in that case, why are you so protective of it? If it doesn't stand for freedom, it's not WORTH protecting.


Wouldn't want to let understanding get in the way of idolatry, would we? Because that's what you're doing. You're putting the symbol (the flag) far ahead of what it stands for. It's like if you had a little statue of Jesus, and you cared more about the statue, made of plaster, than you did of Jesus' words.

I say, LET the flagburners stay. It's pretty obvious that they are passionate about making things better -- since they're angry enough to burn a flag when things suck.

(Of course, this schmuck who burned a flag for no particular reason, he's not the kind of flagburner I'm talking about.)

-Jeffrey

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

ok ok ok

no law against burning a flag, but could we have a law protecting citizens who try to stop the act?

i know i know i sound like a brownshirt. but id like to exercise my freedom of speech and set him on fire.

my 2 cents

Those "2 cents" aren't worth the proverbial "1/20 of a cent."


Since when is the act of murdering someone an exercise of freedom of speech?

We all know you're engaging in hyperbole. But hyperbole is usually used to make a semi-humorous point. Yours is not that.

Is this mindset really the one you want to put on display?: "Flag burners steam me so bad that I want to burn them to death for engaging in expression that I find offensive?"

Jeez, man, what would you want to do to a guy who said he wanted to boink your wife in a nasty way??!

Or are only some offensive expressions enough to make you want to murder?


-Jeffrey

 

[RevDisk]

no law against burning a flag, but could we have a law protecting citizens who try to stop the act?

i know i know i sound like a brownshirt. but id like to exercise my freedom of speech and set him on fire.

Yes, you do.

If a federal law ever passes, banning flag burning, I will promptly burn all my flags. I will have riflemen nearby just in case anyone gets the wrong idea.

So, if you do try to burn people alive for expressing freedom, don't be surprised if darwinism takes its toll. You might just be trying to kill a veteran properly disposing of the flag, or a well armed THR'er sick of fascist laws. Ever look up the proper way to dispose of a flag when it is finished its time?

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

Rev, for all we know, he might be one of those guys who is so "patriotic" for the flag that he has a six-foot one, tattered and faded almost beyond recognition, flapping on a pole in the bed of his F-150...


We've all seen these "patriots"...


-Jeffrey

 

[jefnvk]

Title is misleading. Just one of many offenses, the rest of which seem justified. Should he be charged for it? Nope. But he wouldn't be out free if it wern't a law.

 

[thorn726]

I can't stand flagburners, I think if they don't like us, they need to get the hell out.

That being said, criminalizing flagburning goes against what the flag should stand for. I would rather deal with the hypocritical flagburners than with fascist laws.

yes, but in this case , - when you take someone else's flag- i'd call that akin to a hate crime in a way.

otherwise i agree with the above.

no one in America (imo) really has the right to burn the flag and live here-
i could see some people in foreign countries to want to burn it, but the flag stands for ALL Americans.
American flag burners should get it right-

and burn leaders in effigy - THAt would make sense.! heheh

 

[Khaotic]

Should read "Teen jailed for theft and vandalism."

Those are wrong, but making a politicially-charged statement by burning a piece of cloth ? that's your own call, long as it's your property.

I don't have to like it, but I must respect it, since I swore to uphold and defend rights like that, and take that oath seriously.

-K

 

[hso]

It's a mistake to short-read (when you missread something by not bothering to get past the headline) this as a politically motivated crime. This is a dumbass drunk kid who ripped-off someone's flag and destroyed it. It's not politcal commentary. It's simple vandalism and public drunkeness. The kid needs to be dragged through the courts for trespass, theft of private property, destruction of private property and public drunkeness. Since he wasn't trying to make a statement he doesn't get the protection under the first, but the anit-American anti flag buring law shouldn't even exist much less be applied.

 

[walking arsenal]

It is yours to dispose of as you wish.

No, it's not, there is a proper way to dispose of a flag and it does involve burning it. But lets say you wanted to say drop it in your garbage disposal and push the button, thats a no no.

The Flag Code suggests that, "when a flag has served its useful purpose, it should be destroyed, preferably by burning." For individual citizens, this should be done discreetly so the act of destruction is not perceived as a protest or desecration. Many American Legion Posts will accept unserviceable American flags from residents. These flags will then be destroyed during a proper Flag Ceremony. This ceremony creates a particularly dignified and solemn occasion for the retirement of unserviceable flags.

So see, it's ok to burn the flag. It's the manner in which it's done that matters.

 

[MrTuffPaws]

Please please please try him on the actual crimes he committed (i.e. trespassing, vandalism, theft) and not flag burning. If the prosecution goes for the flag burning angle, they are going to be eaten alive.

 

[beerslurpy]

No walking arsenal, it isnt some sacred relic which can only be treated a certain way. Such concepts cannot exist in our society outside the right of property. A relic is only inviolate in so far as it is owned by a church that treats it as such.

The US military may make regulations about flag disposal and treatment because they own the flags that they use. Also, soldiers are not afforded the rights of property or free speech except as pleases their commanding officers.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

It is yours to dispose of as you wish.

No, it's not, there is a proper way to dispose of a flag and it does involve burning it. But lets say you wanted to say drop it in your garbage disposal and push the button, thats a no no.

The Flag Code suggests that, "when a flag has served its useful purpose, it should be destroyed, preferably by burning." For individual citizens, this should be done discreetly so the act of destruction is not perceived as a protest or desecration. Many American Legion Posts will accept unserviceable American flags from residents. These flags will then be destroyed during a proper Flag Ceremony. This ceremony creates a particularly dignified and solemn occasion for the retirement of unserviceable flags.

Sorry, but it IS yours to dispose of as you wish!

The Flag Code's guidelines do not carry the force of law, the breaking of which brings penalties. It also recommends destruction in a respectful manner.

Observing the Flag Code is a good thing, sort of like putting your hand over your heart, if not in uniform, when the National Anthem is played. (Have you noticed that not many people seem to do that anymore. Have you also noticed that most of the patriotic good-ole-boys also don't uncover, if they're wearing their baseball caps? Or when they go in a house or restaurant... That hat seems to be permanently attached.)

Should you choose to destroy a flag that you own in some other manner than burning, you'd be OK, as long as you did it respectuflly. If you did it in a disrespectful manner, people could rightfully say your behavior was in bad taste, but there'd not be much you or they could do about it without breaking some laws, yourself.

 

[walking arsenal]

Whatever, i guess i have to much respect for some things, i will have to work on that.

I'm off to knock over old ladys, kick puppies, and spit on all the flags i find.

Ya'know, since it's ok and all and aparently i can do whatever i want.

 

[Solo]

Have you ever heard of the phrase "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the deatht that you have the right to say it"?