Tell me About 22 Pistol Bullseye

[Werewolf]

The Gun Club I am a member of has a monthly 22 pistol bullseye competition. I've always wanted to give it a try but don't have a clue other than the guys shoot one handed standing and at 25 yards.

I tried that today with myBuckmark and I SUCK! I shot at paper plates. Had 5 of 'em up at 25 yards and took two shots at each for 10 rounds per string. I averaged 1 hit per plate, usually somewhere around where the 7 or 8 ring would be. Where the other round went is anybody's guess. I did this for 100 rounds.

So my question is what is a Bullseye Stance? Maybe I just don't know how to shoot 1 handed right (though I am doing it the way the Army taught me 35 years ago - you know the 45 degree, straight arm thingy).

How does the competition proceed? How is it scored?

As an aside with my Buckmark about 1 round in 15 I get a FTE, Stovepipe or a really funny FTF (the round ends up at about a 30 degree angle with the bullet jammed up above the chamber and the rear rim hooked on the bottom of the slide). Any ideas? - my Buckmark only has about 300 rounds thru it. The funny FTF is new.

 

[Aneat]

If there just shootin 22's it is probably an informal league. I would guess they are shooting slow fire which is 10 shots in 10 minutes shot at 50 yards. Then timed fire, 5 shots in 20 seconds twice, shot at 25 yards. And finally rapid fire, 5 shots in 10 seconds twice shot at 25 yards as well.

Go shoot the match, everybody sucks when there just starting out.

Adam

 

[Justin]

Bullseye: The Tai Chi of shooting sports

Bullseye is a tough sport, but can be very rewarding.
Lots of good info at The Encyclopedia of Bullseye Shooting

So my question is what is a Bullseye Stance?

Generally speaking, feet about should width apart, stand directly in front of the target with your body edged somewhat. Your off hand can go in the small of your back, your pocket, your belt, or across the front of your body. I grasp my belt buckle in front with my off hand.

Also, you have to get a feel for your natural point of aim. Basically, take up a stance that feels right, close your eyes, and raise the pistol. When you have the pistol raised and aimed, open your eyes to see which way your pointed. If you're off to one side or the other, move your back foot left or right to make minor adjustments. Also, how you grasp the pistol will have an affect.

Maybe I just don't know how to shoot 1 handed right (though I am doing it the way the Army taught me 35 years ago - you know the 45 degree, straight arm thingy).

That's pretty much it. The Army Marksmanship Unit has a manual available that has all of this info.

How does the competition proceed?

There are a total of six five-shot strings fired with three different time constraints. Slow Fire, which is five shots in five minutes, Timed Fire, which is five shots in twenty seconds, and Rapid Fire, which is five shots in ten seconds. A total course of fire will be 30 shots with a perfect score being 900 points.

In a full-blown 2700-point Bullseye match, you do this three times. First with the .22, then with a centerfire pistol with a minimum caliber of .32 (iirc), and then with a .45. Many people tend to shoot the .45 for both centerfire events, but it's not uncommon to see Euroguns chambered in .32 S&W Long or a S&W 52-2 chambered in .38 Special.

How is it scored?

Pretty simple. If the shot is in the ring, that's the score it gets. Shots that break a line are always given the higher point value. In the event of a tie, the guy with the most hits in the X-ring wins.

And that's pretty much it. A full-on 2700 point match will take about four hours or so.

Also, there is International Style Standard Pistol, which is only shot with a .22. This is what they shoot in the Olympic Games. The game isn't a whole lot different, the distances and target sizes change somewhat, and they don't allow scopes, only iron sights.

As an aside with my Buckmark about 1 round in 15 I get a FTE, Stovepipe or a really funny FTF (the round ends up at about a 30 degree angle with the bullet jammed up above the chamber and the rear rim hooked on the bottom of the slide). Any ideas? - my Buckmark only has about 300 rounds thru it. The funny FTF is new.

Most likely bad ammo. I shoot CCI Standard Velocity and have been extremely pleased with it's reliability.

 

[Werewolf]

Most likely bad ammo. I shoot CCI Standard Velocity and have been extremely pleased with it's reliability.

Hmmmm... Today I was using PMC HV 40gr Lead. With that I got the funny failures to feed.

The previous 200 rounds I used CCI HV with 35gr plated bullets. Got stovepipes with it.

I've torn the Buckmark down for cleaning (thinking that might be at least a source of the problem) but cannot get the recoil spring and rod loose and I am not going to force it (learned ages and ages ago not to force things). I imagine there is some trick to getting the recoil and buffer unit out with out force that I just don't know. After removing the top rail assembly the manual says pull the slide back about an inch to remove the recoil spring and rod. The forward part of the recoil assy lifts part way out but the rear part will not budge. If I leave the fwd part flush and try to lift from the rear - same, same. Will not budge. The gun is new. Any ideas on what the deal is here? Is there something I'm not doing I should?

Thanks for the help...

 

[deadin]

Gotcha Justin

A total course of fire will be 30 shots with a perfect score being 900 points.

Where do you find targets with a "30" ring?

Dean

 

[rchernandez]

+1 on The Encyclopedia of Bullseye Shooting http://www.bullseyepistol.com/index.htm

Bullseye outdoors is shot at 50yards for slowfire and 25yards for timed and rapid. Targets are B-6 & B-8

Indoors is generally 50feet using B-2 & B-3 targets.

Off the shelf, pistols like the Buckmark and the Ruger MkII or 22/45, typically require a trigger job to make them competitive. For indoor I shoot a Benelli MP95E to which I've added anatomical grips and a trigger job by Larry's Guns in Maine. Outdoors, I switched to a Marvel .22lr Conversion on a dedicated Essex 1911 frame with a 2-3/4lb trigger (minimum 2lb trigger required for .22 Bullseye). I switched to the Marvel for outdoors so that I would have the same "feel" between the .22 and the CF/45 portions of the match.

Best advice, DRYFIRE practice! Take your Buckmark, line up your sight on a blank wall, keeping close watch on maintaining sight alignment, while slowing pulling the trigger until the shot breaks. Make sure you minimize disturbing your sight alignment! Sounds easy enough right? Well do that, says 60 times before taking a real shot at a target, and keep practicing!

My advice, join the league and have fun. Most Bullseye leagues I've come to know are fun groups...except for a very few that take themselves too seriously, you'll learn a lot and may learn to shoot a lot tighter groups!!!

Good luck, maybe we'll see you at Camp Perry one of these years!


Bob H.

ps.: stick with standard velocity ammo as much as possible. I practice with Aguila SV; CCI SV, and Winchester T-22. Shoot matches with CCI SV; SK Jagd Pistol Match;and, Eley Target Pitol.

 

[bdutton]

Hitting a paper plate at 25 yards is not bad. That is about the size of the 8 ring of a timed fire target.

You are new and probably shooting iron sights with a decent pistol with what I assume is a bad trigger. Off the shelf, the buckmark is very accurate but the trigger is rough. You could have that worked on or get a better pistol. A used high standard is a great gun as are many others.

Without training, you will probably develop bad habits.

Read the following:

http://www.bullseyepistol.com
http://www.nepistol.com
http://www.brianzins.com
http://www.nygordprecision.com/notes.htm

Download the USMC training manual from Brian Zins website
Download the US Army Marksmanship manual from bullseyepistol.com

Read the USMU manual and use the USMC training doc to practice.

Dry fire a lot. If you stick with the buckmark, dry fire with a dud or dry fire plug on a reduced target at home or on a blank wall. When you feel like you dry fired enough, dry fire some more. You should dry fire a lot. Your mind can only focus on one thing at a time. Teach your subconsious to pull that trigger and allow your mind to focus on the sight alignment.

Learn to shoot slowfire accurately. Then worry about timed and rapid.

If you shoot 25 yards, use a 25 yard timed/rapid repair center as a target. Once you master shooting all shots in the ten ring slow fire, start working on timed and rapid.

Read 'With winning in mind' by Lanny Bassham. Its a good book for mental management.

Ask around at the club for help. Lots of pistol shooters love to offer advice. Just take it all with a grain of salt because many offer advice that may not be all that helpful. Even this advice.

 

[Justin]

Where do you find targets with a "30" ring?

WHOOPS!

90 shots.

But hey, now that you mention it, a 30 ring would be alright.

 

[deadin]

But hey, now that you mention it, a 30 ring would be alright.

Look at a 10 Meter Air Rifle Target. See the little "dot" in the middle? That's the 10 ring at 10 meters. Move it out to 30 meters and you've got a 30 ring.

Actually, a well placed .45 will cut the 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 on that target. So would that equal a 40 with one shot?

Dean

 

[Lou629]

Werewolf:
Sorry to hear about your problems, but you are not alone. I'm not 'flaming' the brand mind you, I've had a 9mm browning HP for years, and love it. Never a problem. Last year i bought a buckmark, which i thought was the greatest thing since sliced bread at the time. A Browning handgun, for under $300!! I must've died and gone to heaven i thought. Wrong. I had more mis-feeds, FTE's & mis-fires IN ONE DAY with that thing than i had had with all my other guns combined over a 34 year period of gun ownership up to that point. Combine those results with an incredibly difficult takedown for cleaning that would give a gunsmith fits, and an instruction manual that might as well have been written in chinese. I could not believe that Browning put their name on that POS. I hope you have better luck than i did. Mine is long gone.

 

[P-32]

First, I would not dry fire a Buckmark. Now that is out of the way, I shoot indoor 22 bullseye which is shot at 50 feet. I shoot this during the winter when there is no high power going on.

My second gun is a ten year old Buckmark 5.5 target which has a dot sight mounted on it. My Buckmark has never given me any trouble which wasn't self induced or do to bad ammo.

I let a friend do a trigger job for me. After about a season and 1/2, the trigger went south and the hammer would not reset. I sent it back to Browning expecting to pay for my fiddling with the trigger, but I sent a letter along explaining what the pistol was used for. It came back 2 weeks later with an absolutely wonderful trigger at no charge.

I came into a Smith 41 and reduced the Buckmark to my second gun.....but it has only missed 1 season last year as I loan the Buckmark out to those who want to shoot but don't have a gun yet. My Buckmark has about 15,000 rds through it.

Point is the Buckmark I have has not had any of the issues other posters have said theirs have. I think maybe if WereWolf greased up the area where the plastic rod end runs on the removable top rail it might solve some of his feeding problems until he gets a few more rounds downrange.

Fail to fire is ammo related. I stopped using T-22 which both the Buckmark and 41 seem to shoot just a hair better than CCI Standard because I could never get though a box without a dud. CCI Standard shoots well enough and I have maybe 1 or2 out out a 5,000 rd. case that won't go off.

If you really want to see what a Buckmark will do off a bench, try some PMC Scoremaster. I can't get it here locally, and the 41 won't run on it anyways.

 

[brennan]

What range do you shoot at?




Okshooters.com

 

[Justin]

I let a friend do a trigger job for me. After about a season and 1/2, the trigger went south and the hammer would not reset.

This is because Browning evidently doesn't harden the trigger components all the way through. Having a trigger job done is likely to expose the softer metal underneath, which will wear away rather quickly with use. I saw this happen first hand to a fellow who had a trigger job done on his Buckmark. It wasn't more than a couple of months before the trigger was no longer nice.

My blanket recommendation for anyone who's interested in trying Bullseye .22 is to get a S&W Mod. 41. They're pricier than the Ruger or Browning pistols, but more accurate, ergonomic, and trouble-free, IMO.

If you end up deciding that you don't like Bullseye, you still have the best domestically-produced .22 pistol on the market.

If you do end up liking Bullseye, you'll be ahead of the game as the Mod. 41 comes with an excellent trigger out-of-the box.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

I liked everything that Justin said until the last post.

I've recently earned my NRA Expert classification (conventional pistol) from our clubs most recent indoor Bullseye league. A friend got me into this in the last year or so. Fun! Challenging! And fun!

"My blanket recommendation for anyone who's interested in trying Bullseye .22 is to get a S&W Mod. 41. They're pricier than the Ruger or Browning pistols, but more accurate, ergonomic, and trouble-free, IMO." You're entitled to your opinion.

That said, over the years, I've seen many a .22 pistol in a Ransom rest. I will not say that the Smith 41 is more accurate than the Browning Buckmark or the Ruger Mark II, in equal configurations. Never. I've seen them all, with the proper ammo, print ten shots in one ragged hole at 25yds and longer distances. But, if you want to customize your pistol, there's not much available for the Browning. A little available for the Smith, and a ton of aftermarket goodies available for the Ruger from grips, extended slide and magazine releases, compensators, target sear and hammers, sights, adjustable triggers, trigger springs, main springs, titanium firing pins, and match grade barrels, (not that you need one). I've never seen the Smith or Browning in Stainless Steel either.

And "TEN RING" on The Encyclopedia of Bullseye Shooting http://www.bullseyepistol.com/index.htm

There's a lot of information on that site.

So, go shoot Bullseye! You'll be a better shooter at just about any other disipline for doing so.

I've found that the most cost effective/accurate rimfire ammunition in both of my guns is Winchester T-22, WinX. CCI's will do in a pinch, but testing reveals that they're not quite up to ten ring at 25yds. The T-22's rival the Wolf, RWS and Agula for 30% less money.

I had a couple fliers on this target. -Those are me, not the pistol. Not the ammo.
http://www.cnw.com/~hotrod/Toys/GunStuff/93Score25ydsOneHand.JPG
I've shot a couple of 99's earlier this year but the 100 (single target), illudes me. That's the challenge. Me against me to do better every time. That's what keeps me going back. Then when you outscore a buddy, well, that's icing on the cake!

http://www.cnw.com/~hotrod/Toys/GunStuff/4inchBull.JPG

http://www.cnw.com/~hotrod/Toys/GunStuff/SlabSide.JPG

-Steve

 

[Hoser]

My blanket recommendation for anyone who's interested in trying Bullseye .22 is to get a S&W Mod. 41. They're pricier than the Ruger or Browning pistols, but more accurate, ergonomic, and trouble-free, IMO.

I will second that. Not only are they more accurate, but have a much better resale value.

I prefer my Marvel Unit One 1911 conversion over all the above mentioned. Same frame, same trigger, ect... Just as accurate, but ammo sensitive for feeding.

I shoot a lot at the Olympic Training Center and am seeing more and more Marvels every year.

 

[P-32]

I tend to agree with JOLTs. My 5.5 target will run with my 41. But and its a big BUT, scores with the 41 are better due to the weight of the pistol and grip size for me anyways. And out of the box trigger was light years ahead of the ruger or Buckmark.

 

[Deanimator]

Shooting bullseye well takes a lot of practice. If you do put that practice in however, you will improve a lot.

If you're not shooting a dot sight and you're serious about bullseye, get one. Almost nobody shoots iron sights in bullseye competition anymore. A 1" Ultradot is perfect.

You might want to take advantage of this resource: http://lists.lava.net/mailman/listinfo/bullseye-l

Some of the best shooters in the country post to that mailing list.

 

[Sunray]

"... DRYFIRE practice!..." Not with a .22. You'll significantly increase the likelyhood of damaging it. The firing pin can hit the back of the chamber and either break or damage the firing pin and/or peen the edge of the chamber.
Before you do anything, you need to try as many brands of standard or target velocity as you can to find the one or two that your pistol will function with and shoot well. Sight in and go shoot the matches.
Don't worry about how well you do. Doing some upper body toning exercises is a good idea too.

 

[Werewolf]

Doing some upper body toning exercises is a good idea too.

Ain't that the truth...

Before you do anything, you need to try as many brands of standard or target velocity as you can to find the one or two that your pistol will function with and shoot well.

So far I've tried two brands - both HV. In all cases after firing about 40 or so rounds I start to get stovepipes.

 

[Powderman]

A big second on the upper body conditioning. When grasping the pistol, you want to become as close to a Ransom Rest as humanly possible.

That being said, Bullseye shooting can be distilled into three distinct components and elements:

1. Sight picture. Choose if you want to shoot with a 6 o'clock hold, or a center hold. Bullseye targets have the black sized so that the black portion of the target appears the same in the sight picture at any range. The 6 o'clock hold will have you sitting the black bull on top of your front sight post. The center hold will have you sitting the center of the bull on your front sight.

2. Sight alignment. Front sight centered in the rear sight notch, and even with the top of the notch. Remember, focus on your front sight; it should be clear and sharp as a razor in focus. Do not look at the target when breaking the shot--look at that front sight!

3. Trigger squeeze/press/pull and follow through. Pull the trigger STRAIGHT to the rear, with no sideways/lateral pressure. Apply a smooth steady pull until the shot breaks. Continue applying pressure even after the shot breaks, then release pressure until you feel the hammer reset.

Now, here's the challenge--doing all three at once!

Also, you started out in the right facet of Bullseye shooting to begin with. To me, indoor pistol is much harder than outdoor pistol.

I remember my first indoor match--I was solid in the Sharpshooter class, and went in cocky. I knew that at 15 yards, I would clean the target, no problem.

Yeah. Right. Whatever.

I got SCHOOLED! I barely made Marksman, and crawled out with my tail tucked between my legs, snivel gear and whine relay fully engaged and energized. I drove home almost whimpering like a puppy!

If you shoot solid Expert scores in Indoor Pistol, you should shoot Master class on Outdoor Pistol easily!

Bullseye is a friendly sport; I don't know of any shooting sport where you can just walk up to a match, declare a desire to shoot and learn, and have people offering you $2000 match pistols, ammunition and a spot on the line! Some folks will even spot you your range fee!

It is a fun and addicting sport. For .22, I use a Marvel conversion as the primary, and my trusty Ruger Competition Model for backup.

It can be frustrating too. I shot a State EIC match with my Marvel last month; shot a solid 283--and didn't even make the top five finishers! Horrible, I tell ya!

 

[Haymaker]

Shot International Rapidfire in the 60's

Our coach had us tie water filled milkbottles (yes, Milk used to come in glass bottles ) to the frame of our gun and practice sighting a course of fire with the added weight. = We did this a LOT! Our weapon of choice was the old Hi Standard Olympic chamberd for .22Short = Wish I had one now.
Haven't fired a .22 Bullseye match in a decade & used iron sights then, but I just got an extra barrel for my Hi Standard Supermaqtic = 5.5" Bull barrel with a Weaver rail... I plan on splicing on a Burris 2.75X LER scope
Hope the new barrel likes Eley SV (Brown box). Gotta look in the antique shops for a milk bottle

 

[Deanimator]

"... DRYFIRE practice!..." Not with a .22.

Depends upon the .22. A properly configured High Standard won't have any problems. Others might. I certainly wouldn't insist that someone NOT use snapcaps, just that in many cases it isn't necessary.

 

[Jeff22]

Recommendations for books on bullseye shooting, originally posted by RickyB on THR on 01-16-2003:

Here are some recommendations for bullseye pistol shooting:

My highest recommendation goes to Pistol Shooting as a Sport by Hans Standl. This is the best book that I have read on the subject. Originally written in German and translated to English, it naturally focuses on international style pistol shooting, rather than NRA style, but the differences are inconsequential. This book is probably out of print and I expect will be hard to find.

Another good book is Successful Pistol Shooting by Frank and Paul Leatherdale. Don't confuse this with a self-published work by the same name by Hickey & Sievers. Some people like the book by Hickey & Sievers, but I do not.

Another book that I like is Competitive Shooting by A. A. Yur'Yev. This book covers international rifle and pistol competition. It was translated and published by NRA. It may still be available from the NRA.

The Advanced Pistol Marksmanship Manual written by the U.S. Army Marksmanship Training Unit is available from Amazon and other sources. An online version is available from several websites. www.bullseyepistol.com

George Nonte wrote a book, Handgun Competition. I recently bought it on eBay but have not read it yet. It looks like it may be a bit outdated for "practical" types of competition since it was written in 1978 and therefore would not cover developments of the last 25 years, but I like Nonte's writing and the book should prove interesting, at least to me.

Finally, Gil Hebard's Pistol Shooter's Treasury is excellent. The pictures are old, and the text has not been updated, but the information is just as valid today as it was when first written. This book can teach you all you need to know to get an excellent start in precision pistol shooting.

One online text is Pistol Shooting: The Art by Edwin C. Hall. Here is the link to it:

http://www.pilkguns.com/coach/ehindx.htm

 

[Norton]

Here's a tongue in cheek summary of what I know about bullseye pistol:

1. It's going to cost me a lot of money. My wife has gotten spoiled shooting either Pardinis, Morinis and Feinwerkbaus at work and my little ol' MkII just doesn't stack up.

2. It's going to cost me even more money because shooting .22 bullseye oftentimes leads to shooting air pistol and they seem to cost as much or more than the aforementioned triumverate of .22lr pistols. (electronic triggers anyone? )

3. Once we actually get to the range, it's a cheap date because it seems like it takes my wife an hour to use up 50 rounds of .22lr.

4. The best thing is that my wife is into the shooting sports and, as long as I take care of her, I get to have some toys for myself.

 

[243winxb]

Bullseye competition has 5 different levels of skill/classes. Starting with marksmen, up to high master. A level for everone for there ability.