Tell me about ball fit and loads

[BowerR64]

Im starting to run into some things that i think maybe causing my accuracy issues but im not 100% on it.

First ball fit, i notice the brass trigger guard Remington model i have shoots the best. It seems to be the most accurate. The .454 ball fits tighter in it then the silver guard one.

If i use a .457 ball and get it to fit in as tight as the brass guard one what will this do for my accuracy? will it help the ball shoot more true? will it shoot higher or lower or not really affect it much?

When i say it doesnt fit as tight, the .454 in the brass trigger guard Rem shaves a little ring off the ball. The silver one doesnt shave off a little ring. It doesnt drop right in but doesnt shave anything off either.

Powder:

Say i shoot 20 grains of T7 and 20 of pyrodex P, will the pyrodext shoot lower? Since the pyrodex has slightly less pop.

Also if i use say 30 grains of T7 will it shoot higher or lower then say 20 grains? What im wondering is if i can raise or lower the POI just by using more or less powder?

I have my 2 Rems very close at 15 yards but i want them better. Before i go grinding more on the front sight i want to make sure im doing all i can with the ball and loads first.

Here is the first 6 shots from each today. 20 grains tripple7, Hornady .454 balls, Remington #10 caps. 15 yards resting on sand bags.

 

[J-Bar]

Group size generally improves when the diameter of the chamber mouth is slightly larger than barrel bore diameter. Sometimes manufacturers get it backwards, so the ball doesn't engage the rifling grooves fully. There have been discussions about reaming out chamber mouths in this forum.

Variation in powder charge can certainly change vertical dispersion... The more powerful loads may shoot lower because the ball spends less time in the barrel and therefore is less influenced by recoil.

When all speculation is done, the only way to find out how your guns behave when you change these parameters is with a range test.

 

[Pancho]

A swaged ball that leaves a lead ring will not be round anymore but will have a flat ring around the ball that is presented to the rifling. A ball that doesn't leave a ring is round or nearly so and will present to the rifling very little contact surface.
I'd certainly try a larger ball before anything else.

 

[kituwa]

Is your silver guard gun a shooters model? I have never heard of a standard one that has the silver guard. Also the fact that it has larger chambers leads me to think it may be a shooters model. If so you have a dream gun there. I dont know if they are marked as such or not but you can look down the bore with a light and see if the rifling is progressive or not. Also, if the chamber mouths are chamfered they often wont shave much if any lead off but rather swage in. One of my guns is set up like that and even though it does not shave lead when seating them, it actually takes more to seat them that way.So sounds like you need .457 balls in that gun. Oh , and looks like you are shooting a cpl inches high, so dont take any off your front sight, that will make it shoot higher. They do make extra tall replacment sights for Remingtons and thats what you really need if your shooting high.

 

[BowerR64]

What is a dream gun? I think the brass trigger guard one shoots better.

I had Phil look at it today ([email protected]) and he couldnt tell what it was.

It has "AS" on the frame i think we figured it was made in 1987 or around that time.

I dont see any difference in the other one though they look very simmilar. The silver one says "Navy Arms Ridgefield N.J."

The part we questioned is it doesnt have a front dovetail sight. He has one and it does but it looks very simmilar to mine.

What makes it better then the other one?

 

[kituwa]

Phil would have known if it was a shooters model,,he has one.

 

[kituwa]

The shooters model is highly tuned and has the progressive rifling twist.They cost about what three reguler 1858's cost too.

 

[Hellgate]

Typically, the Pietta Remingtons have a fixed front post and the Uberti & Euroarms have a dovetail front sight. The Euroarms guns that I have owned (6 or 7) all have/had chamfered chamber mouths and did not shave lead rings. The 44s all liked .454 balls. The Euroarms have noticeably smaller frames and grips than Piettas and are slightly smaller than Ubertis. I can't comment on ASM Remmies as I have never owned one.

Don't mess with filing the front sight til you see how they shoot without a rest, i.e. off hand. Also sometimes one chamber consistantly throws a wild ball that opens up groups. Find that one and mark it as the "open" chamber if you are only going to shoot 5 rounds at a time (as in CAS/SASS matches). With any new gun I shoot from sandbags at a 6 bull target with chamber #1 into bull #1, chamber #2 into bull #2, etc for 3 shots each. I put a dot of fingernail polish onto a degreased area on the cylinder over the "open" (least accurate) chamber as a reminder not to load it.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes the revolver is the "Shooters Model" sort of. It was made in 1986 and sold
by Navy Arms. I think Navy Arms just called it the Deluxe Model. It does not
have a dovetail front sight. I guess Pietta at that time just used a post. It does
have the high polish blue job and silver trigger guard. Also back then Pietta
made the chamber dia. .451. Mine was made in 2002 a d is .456-.457. I think
Pietta made them back then for the .454 dia. Ball. Mine prefers the .464 dia
ball. It was nice to have the visit, next time we will play a little banjo!! What
do you say, Phil plays the banjo. Hell yes. I am a country boy you know.

It does have the progressive rifling. I did measure the chamber at .451. Did not
measure the groove barrel dia. Action was tight, but not as tight as mine. Trigger
had no creep, but was heavy to me, Round 3-4 lbs. But remember I am used to
nothing over a lb. For the normal person you would probably think the trigger was
just fine. I'm not normal . Ha!!

 

[BowerR64]

Think its worth a trade for an Old Army? i really want one of those

 

[kituwa]

Bowers, A ROA is a nice gun for sure, but if it was me,,i would have a very hard time letting go of a shooters model. I believe if you try the right size ball and play with different loads that it will out shoot your other gun by a good bit.Sell your standard Remington and use that toward a Ruger and then you will have TWO great guns.You just talked to a man that KNOWS a target gun (Phil).You have the perfect gun to get into competion like Phil shoots in, and if you met up with him then you must live where that type thing is going on. If i were in your position i would jump all over it even if i never became a great shot.Phil, musical instruments do go along well with black powder. I have been learning to play my fiddle,i am not real good at it yet but when im not in the yard irritating my wife shooting my guns, then i can go in the house and get my fiddle out and irritate her some more,lol.

 

[rodwha]

"...and irritate her some more..."

You sound like a Hancock! We may be related somehow!

 

[BowerR64]

I took this gun out again today and it shot ALOT better.

Im starting to think that the whole time i just wasnt cleaning the barrel good enough. That and i think i was going the wrong way with the front sight.

I did what Phil sugested and put a little blob of JB weld over the front sight and started over with it tall.

The first shot was WAY low off the paper. Then i raised the sights on the bull and it hit the paper way low. I then used some sissors and clipped a little off the sight and bang! third shot was the bull.

First 6 shots i used the .457 balls Phil gave me with 20g T7

Second 6 shots i used 30 grains pyrodex pellets .457 ball.

The last set of 6 i used the .454 and again 20g T7 i think it was my best set.

I think my problem is im flinching when i pull the trigger. The trigger pull is pretty heavy compared to Phils. His is smooth and about half as heavy. These are the only BP pistols ive ever fired so i dont really know what they are supose to be like. After trying Phils i realize mine need some work

 

[Noz]

I flinched when you showed a target with impact high and talked about grinding more off of the front sight. I think I saw that you had figured out you were going the wrong way

 

[BHP FAN]

I did that ''wrong way'' thing once, [I was waaay too tired to be shooting really, having just come off a graveyard shift at the casino where I was working at the time] and no matter how much I filed on that front sight, it kept shooting higher, LOL! About that time I realised I was being an idiot, and was probably unsafe to be around a loaded firearm, and called it a day.Fortunatly I stopped before doing too much damage, and a jeweler friend of mine brazed a little chunk of brass welding rod on the top of the sight forming a ''bead'' which is now perfect. Don't shoot or drive tired, lesson learned.

 

[BowerR64]

I dont think i was tired i just wasnt cleaning it enough or something.

I picked up a TC cleaning kit for black powder from walmart and used the stuff it came with and thats what seem to really fix everything i think. Or maybe the lighter trigger? i dont know what i did but its working good now im happy with it now.