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Tell me about Recoil.
- Thread starter bg226
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Frog48
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.30-30 and 7.62x39 feel identical to me.
Yes, you can noticeably feel the difference between .30-30 and .30-06.
Yes, you can noticeably feel the difference between .30-30 and .30-06.
We'll the only two 7.62X39 rifles I have shot are sks's and ak's. But what really determines recoil is your stance, the weight of the bullet, the barrel length, and the weight of the rifle. IMO the 30-30 has more recoil than the 7.62X39 and the 30.06 is much harsher than the others.
alucard0822
Member
even in the same caliber 2 rifles may recoil completely differently. My marlin 336 carbine (30-30) feels like it has a harder and sharper recoil than my M1 garand (30-06). Depending on what you are looking to use the rifle for there are other things to consider like cost of ammo, semi-auto vs lever, cost of rifle. where you are shootin, and what you are shooting. A 50-100yd plinking gun would point twards an SKS, maybe a nice lever rifle in 44or 357 mag, maybe a deer rifle good to at least 200yds, then maybe a 7mm-08 bolt gun, there are literally thousands of light recoiling, accurate and versatile rifles in several chamberings.
rangerruck
Member
recoil is mathematical in nature, all other things being equal. all the above bullets are the same diameter. but , according to our math, the 30.06 hits hardest, then the 3030 then the russian. the first two have a heavier bullet , higher velocity, propelled by a larger powder column.
Now the rifle will make a diff, a winny 94 model, is a very sleek.slim straigt stocked rifle, that weighs very little. So a 3030, in a slim model 94 , does little to nothing , in absorbing recoil that is thrust backwards.
Now the rifle will make a diff, a winny 94 model, is a very sleek.slim straigt stocked rifle, that weighs very little. So a 3030, in a slim model 94 , does little to nothing , in absorbing recoil that is thrust backwards.
BG226;
There are indeed calculations for recoil energy, and they are a valuable tool for comparison. However, that being said, two guns, weighing the same, in the same caliber, and firing the same ammunition, can produce distinctly different recoil impressions on the same shooter. Why? Because stock design has a very great deal to do with the feel of that energy as it's transmitted to the shooter's shoulder.
The numbers don't lie, they just don't tell the whole story. You can find an older .30-30 with a crescent steel buttplate and a modern gun with a new tech recoil pad & think you've shot two entirely different calibers.
900F
There are indeed calculations for recoil energy, and they are a valuable tool for comparison. However, that being said, two guns, weighing the same, in the same caliber, and firing the same ammunition, can produce distinctly different recoil impressions on the same shooter. Why? Because stock design has a very great deal to do with the feel of that energy as it's transmitted to the shooter's shoulder.
The numbers don't lie, they just don't tell the whole story. You can find an older .30-30 with a crescent steel buttplate and a modern gun with a new tech recoil pad & think you've shot two entirely different calibers.
900F
tkendrick
Member
Stock fit. When it comes to FELT recoil (how it feels to you) stock fit is everything.
My .375 H&H is a '17 Enfield modified on an aftermarket black stock. My buddy has a .375 stock Ruger number 1. The guns weigh within a couple of ounces of each other. I can shoot mine all day. With same ammo, his puts me out of action after one shot.
I have the same problem with most wood stocked Ruger rifles, regardless of caliber. Recoil pads might help some, but if the stock doesn't fit you, you'll feel it.
My .375 H&H is a '17 Enfield modified on an aftermarket black stock. My buddy has a .375 stock Ruger number 1. The guns weigh within a couple of ounces of each other. I can shoot mine all day. With same ammo, his puts me out of action after one shot.
I have the same problem with most wood stocked Ruger rifles, regardless of caliber. Recoil pads might help some, but if the stock doesn't fit you, you'll feel it.
I have the Knoxx recoil reducing stock for the 870 12g shotgun, and it works very very well. Without it, shooting slugs is painful. With it, I can shoot them without any difficulty. Some people say it affects the accuracy, but I can shoot trap with this and I don't have any problems.
The action will have a lot to do with how the recoil feels as well. I just bought a Benelli R1 semi-auto rifle in .300 Winchester Magnum. Because of the semi auto action, and the excellent recoil pad and ergonomics of the rifle, it is much more pleasant to shoot than a .270. It feels about like a 20 gauge shotgun.
chris in va
Member
My friend has a 30-30 levergun. To me it pushes noticeably harder than my CZ bolt action in 7.62x39. As a matter of fact, we had to put a Limbsaver on his Marlin to keep the whining down.
After he shot up all his expensive ammo, I offered my CZ. 4 boxes later, he was all grins.
Now if the rifle is a semiauto gas operated like the SKS/AK/Garand etc, recoil will be MUCH less. If you have a friend with an SKS, ask them to shoot it with the gas system off sometime.
After he shot up all his expensive ammo, I offered my CZ. 4 boxes later, he was all grins.
Now if the rifle is a semiauto gas operated like the SKS/AK/Garand etc, recoil will be MUCH less. If you have a friend with an SKS, ask them to shoot it with the gas system off sometime.
aka108
Member
Buy yourself a PAST sholder pad. Midway and a few other dealers carry them. You'll be able to shoot anything all day long and be no worse for wear.
pdowg881
Member
Comparitively speaking. 30-06 is a full power rifle cartridge compared to the 5.56 of an AR which is reffered to as an "intermediate" cartridge.
Tony Williams
Member
There is a simple way of calculating recoil included in this article on basic ballistics on my website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ballistics.htm However, this only takes into account the simple numbers - bullet weight, propellant weight, muzzle velocity and gun weight - and not the other, very important, factors already mentioned (gun action, stock shape and recoil-reducing devices). It's also worth adding that people's perception of recoil also differs even if everything else is equal.
I provided some examples of how the recoil of different military rifle cartridges compares in Assault Rifle: the Development of the Modern Military Rifle and its Ammunition. I worked out nominal "recoil energy factors", if the cartridges were all fired in guns of identical weight and design. The figures run like this:
5.45x39: 24
5.56x45 M855: 32
7.62x39: 59
7.62x51 NATO: 142.
The .30-06 develops pretty much the same recoil as the 7.62x51 - in other words, about four times the recoil energy of the 5.56mm, with the 7.62x39 AK round being about half-way in between.
I provided some examples of how the recoil of different military rifle cartridges compares in Assault Rifle: the Development of the Modern Military Rifle and its Ammunition. I worked out nominal "recoil energy factors", if the cartridges were all fired in guns of identical weight and design. The figures run like this:
5.45x39: 24
5.56x45 M855: 32
7.62x39: 59
7.62x51 NATO: 142.
The .30-06 develops pretty much the same recoil as the 7.62x51 - in other words, about four times the recoil energy of the 5.56mm, with the 7.62x39 AK round being about half-way in between.
JimmerJammerMrK
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I provided some examples of how the recoil of different military rifle cartridges compares in Assault Rifle: the Development of the Modern Military Rifle and its Ammunition. I worked out nominal "recoil energy factors", if the cartridges were all fired in guns of identical weight and design. The figures run like this:
5.45x39: 24
5.56x45 M855: 32
7.62x39: 59
7.62x51 NATO: 142.
The .30-06 develops pretty much the same recoil as the 7.62x51 - in other words, about four times the recoil energy of the 5.56mm, with the 7.62x39 AK round being about half-way in between.
Just to clarify, this scale is linear, correct?
Tony Williams
Member
Yes.
I agree with aka108, consider looking into a Recoil Shield from Past. Essentially, it is a ¼ inch pad you strap to you’re shoulder that will make you’re 30-06 sting less than the 30-30. I use it when I practice with my 6.75 pound 300 magnum. The gun still jumps up, but I no longer feel the sting. I can shoot 20 rounds off the bench and not feel sore at the end of the day.
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
bg226, unless you are unusually recoil sensitive, you shouldn't be having trouble with 12ga birdshot or .30-06. 12ga slugs and buck can be pretty rough. In addition to the recoil pads recommended above, I'd try to find an experienced shooter at your club to critique your technique.
Which model Browning? Which make and model 12 gauge? What type of ammo are you using in each?I find a 30.06 (browning semiauto) and 12GA to have similar recoil.
"Tell me about Recoil."
It all starts with Newton's old "equal and opposite reaction" law of motion. The bullet is propelled out of the barrel at high velocity. Recoil is simply the 'equal and opposite reaction' to the motion of the bullet. Of course, the rifle is much more massive than the bullet, so it needs to move much more slowly in the opposite direction in order to 'equal' the motion of the bullet. It is also possible to 'dissipate' some of that 'opposite reaction' energy using a 'recoil pad' (the energy goes into deforming the pad, which then of course 'springs' back but this creates a 'delay' which spreads out the recoil). As has been previously noted, the 'recoil' then varies directly with the mass and velocity of the projectile, as well as inversely on the mass of the rifle / shotgun, in a mathematical sense. Also note that your stance can affect the 'felt recoil'. So for example, firing firmly braced from a bench is usually more 'painful' than firing from a standing position. Unfortunately, the more 'securely braced' positions are the more accurate as well. Finally, note that the 'unpleasantness' of firing a firearm is not necessarily just in the 'recoil'. There is also a loud noise and muzzle flash. These can also produce an 'unpleasant reaction' and can lead to flinching.
It all starts with Newton's old "equal and opposite reaction" law of motion. The bullet is propelled out of the barrel at high velocity. Recoil is simply the 'equal and opposite reaction' to the motion of the bullet. Of course, the rifle is much more massive than the bullet, so it needs to move much more slowly in the opposite direction in order to 'equal' the motion of the bullet. It is also possible to 'dissipate' some of that 'opposite reaction' energy using a 'recoil pad' (the energy goes into deforming the pad, which then of course 'springs' back but this creates a 'delay' which spreads out the recoil). As has been previously noted, the 'recoil' then varies directly with the mass and velocity of the projectile, as well as inversely on the mass of the rifle / shotgun, in a mathematical sense. Also note that your stance can affect the 'felt recoil'. So for example, firing firmly braced from a bench is usually more 'painful' than firing from a standing position. Unfortunately, the more 'securely braced' positions are the more accurate as well. Finally, note that the 'unpleasantness' of firing a firearm is not necessarily just in the 'recoil'. There is also a loud noise and muzzle flash. These can also produce an 'unpleasant reaction' and can lead to flinching.
JimmerJammerMrK
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It all starts with Newton's old "equal and opposite reaction" law of motion. The bullet is propelled out of the barrel at high velocity. Recoil is simply the 'equal and opposite reaction' to the motion of the bullet. Of course, the rifle is much more massive than the bullet, so it needs to move much more slowly in the opposite direction in order to 'equal' the motion of the bullet. It is also possible to 'dissipate' some of that 'opposite reaction' energy using a 'recoil pad' (the energy goes into deforming the pad, which then of course 'springs' back but this creates a 'delay' which spreads out the recoil).
Don't forget, there are many other forces at work here, including the friction between the bullet and the barrel, the energy that is lost as heat, and the large amount of pressure that develops when a shot is fired.
Some recoil, of course, is due to the forward momentum of the bullet, but recoil is also produced when the gas propelling the bullet through the barrel launches the bullet and escapes itself.
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