Tell me about the 5.45 X 39 round

[PercyShelley]

I suspect also that if they were using less refined ballistics media like soap the huge temporary wound cavity from the 5.45 would have looked a whole lot better than the 7.62 channel, which doesn't have the big temporary cavity.

Ah, whom am I kidding? This is the Soviet Union, they probably tested the rounds using political dissidents.

 

[JShirley]

Also, consider how these rounds/platforms were used. The Soviets often used conscripts who were in for shorter periods than we in the West are accustomed to. For those, a bullet hose might be the way to go, and multiple hits were expected.

J

 

[PercyShelley]

Given its weight and that huge brake at the end, I suspect that the -74 is beautiful in full auto.

 

[Ignition Override]

Somebody stated on another forum or website that 1,000 rounds of this ammo only cost about $140 or so-whichever it was, being a good bit less than prices for the least expensive x39.

But are such rifles' spare parts easy to find in the US and at reasonable prices?

 

[JShirley]

Well, without looking, I would imagine that most parts that would work with the 7.62 AKs will also work with the 5.45s. Anyone?

 

[RyanM]

Barrel and bolt swap, and a new magazine, and you can shoot 5.45 in a gun that was originally 7.62x39. Those are the only changes. Pretty sure the gas piston is the same.

But really, what are you expecting to break in an AK?

Personally, I'd rather stick with 7.62x39mm. AIM still has Wolf MC for $180 + shipping a case. In comparison, new manufacture non-corrosive 5.45mm is $150 + shipping. That's not much of a savings, and the WMC 124 gr JHP has excellent terminal performance.

 

[sarduy]

this is a 5.45 vs 5.56 video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqaeX2KigSc

 

[RP88]

it will consistently yaw more than a 5.56. However, just like the 5.56, penetration consistency issues arise, despite revamps of the round. But since you don't plan to shoot anyone with it...

The main thing bad about it is, as said, that its purely surplus. An import ban would kill the 5.45 shooters until someone began to make it commercially.

 

[-v-]

From relatives who have been in the Soviet Army (ca 1985), the standard mode of fire that was taught to recruits was to fire their weapon in 5-10 round burst on full auto. Semi-auto fire was to be used to hit single targets at extended range. Seems there's a reason why FA was/is the first stage notch on the selector lever. Plus, as I understand soviet doctrine of the time, it was more bullets = better, and use the Ak like a long-range shotgun.

 

[Zach S]

S&W apparently did a brief run of ARs and uppers but that seemed to be exclusive to one distributor. Other companies have been rumored to be considering making ARs in the caliber but I don't know if anything has or will come of that.

Teppo Jutsu is working one one, I think. I know they were, I dont know the status. Lately I've been following his work on the gas operated 7.62x25 upper and magblock.

KKF has modified AK74(?) bbls to fit the AR, uses a 6.5 or 6.8 bolt. Now that I think about it, I think the 6.5 and 6.8 bolts are the same.

I've got too many unfinished projects to think about a 5.45 AR at the moment.

 

[PercyShelley]

Well, without looking, I would imagine that most parts that would work with the 7.62 AKs will also work with the 5.45s. Anyone?

According to various sources on the intertubes, 40%-60% parts commonality.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

What is this cartridge good for?

JK - they've got you covered above.

 

[SnakeLogan]

It's penetration is better than the 223, but not as good as 7.62x39. The FMJ will usually tumble 9 inches upon entering ballistic gel.

 

[buck00]

And my personal philosophy on "combat" rifles, is anything more powerful than a .22 Magnum is powerful enough.

I agree with this.

There are polarized camps about 5.45 x 39. One side claims 5.45 is a vicious "poison bullet" which is in semi-violation of the Geneva convention, and causes horrific wounds due to tumbling. The other camp claims 5.45 is a weak round and Fackler proved it is less powerful than a 9mm... and grossly inefficient for combat. I think the truth is in between.

The bottom line, if you hit someone with a 5.45 in the torso they will have a problem. If you don't believe me, there are piles and piles of formerly wide-eyed Muslim jihadists rotting in the ground in Afghanistan and Chechnya courtesy of 5.45 x 39.

I chuckle when guys think they will ever use their 5.45 rifle for anything other than punching holes in paper on a lazy Sunday afternoon. In conclusion, it is an accurate and fun round to shoot. The price is right, and yes, if you had to put someone down with it, they'd go down.

For anyone on the fence about a AK-74 style rifle, I highly recommend it.

 

[rockinrussky]

Hey Buck00 those are some great pictures, where are they from?
Anyways, I haven't gone to war with this round so I can't vouch for its killing potential, though I'm sure its there. As far as plinking goes, its a great round. Its pretty accurate and the recoil is almost less than shooting an AR, except the AK has no buffer tube

 

[Funderb]

The FMJ will usually tumble 9 inches upon entering ballistic gel.

Tests generally show instability within the first 3 inches.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Also, consider how these rounds/platforms were used. The Soviets often used conscripts who were in for shorter periods than we in the West are accustomed to. For those, a bullet hose might be the way to go, and multiple hits were expected.

Volunteer forces or not, everyone seems to agree that a fast-firing, flat trajectoried, and low-recoil rifle is the best approach to a service rifle for achieving hits on the enemy.

Strangely, Vietnam era draftees who got handed an M14 did not serve any longer than Soviet army conscripts -- term of service for either was 24 months, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Joe Demko]

From relatives who have been in the Soviet Army (ca 1985), the standard mode of fire that was taught to recruits was to fire their weapon in 5-10 round burst on full auto. Semi-auto fire was to be used to hit single targets at extended range.

From which part of the Soviet Union do your relatives hail? My wife is from Ukraine and I've become close with her family.
Ukraine, at least, stressed marksmanship. My wife is very competent with an AK due to training she had in school and in the Pioneers. She did mention once that they never fired one on full-auto in her training.
Her male cousins with whom I crony are all veterans. They LOVE going to the range to shoot AK's, SKS's, Makarovs, and Tokarevs. They are all very good shots, too. Sergei (whom I call The Hetman) told me that they seldom fired full-auto during his military years. He's kind of an enigma, though, and displays unusual skill with a wide variety of weapons for a guy who claims to have been a truck driver in the army and who claims not to have touched a gun in years 'til he met me.