Tell me about the Kahr PM9
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DHart
Member
I recently perused the Glock Talk Kahr folder and found mostly very positive feedback on the PM-9. Of course, with any gun brand, make, or model, one can find complaints and issues. Mostly, it seems, PM-9 owners these days are thrilled with the guns... I know I am.
My son bought one yesterday and we just ran 289 rounds through it without a single malfunction. He stripped and cleaned it last night as per the instruction book and liberally lubed it for the break in. The last 50 rounds were Winchester 115 grain hollowpoint. We had 6 inch groups at 25 yards with a few shooter induced flyers. It shoots about10 inches high at 25 but is close enough at practical distances. I think I will soon replace my 342 with the PM9.
From the reading I've done on this forum and elsewhere I hadn't heard of a consistent problem with the rails on the lower reciever. They can be flexed with my fingers, which is bad if that's what I bought the gun for. But since it's made to be shot - and it mechanically performs this function in the way it was designed - there's really nothing wrong with the rails on the PM-9.
As for the "chewed up polymer," that's a result of the casting process. Every model of this pistol is going to have a loose flap of plastic or two hanging off certain parts of the lower. They can easily be removed with fingers or a razor, and again do not affect the mechanical function of the gun.
denfoote
Member
I'll stick with my STAINLESS MK9, thank you very much!!
Love mine. I've run 408 rounds so far; my PM9 DLC had one malf early in the break in period when some PM9's get finicky about a manually racked slide- using the slide release lever is recommended by many, including most at Kahr. After a good barrel/feed ramp polish, mine racks like butter manually with the 6 round mag. My 7 rounders invariably need the slide release lever treatment. I think it has something to do with the top round being at a slightly different angle in a 7 rounder as opposed to the 6 rounder.
Bottom line: a PM9 will probably run like a champ out of the box, through break-in and beyond, and if it doesn't, it'll never run right. Clean, lube well (mine runs much happier/slicker with Eezox or FP-10 than it did with BreakFree and Tetra grease), and then shoot the snot out of it.
Kahr customer service will bend over backwards to make sure you're happy, though, even if they have to replace the gun.
It has pretty much replaced my G23 for EDC; I would buy another one in a heartbeat.
Bottom line: a PM9 will probably run like a champ out of the box, through break-in and beyond, and if it doesn't, it'll never run right. Clean, lube well (mine runs much happier/slicker with Eezox or FP-10 than it did with BreakFree and Tetra grease), and then shoot the snot out of it.
Kahr customer service will bend over backwards to make sure you're happy, though, even if they have to replace the gun.
It has pretty much replaced my G23 for EDC; I would buy another one in a heartbeat.
duncan
Member
The Kahr PM9 has been refined for a good year now.
As someone stated, GT has a strong PM9 following and many of us have not problems. Kahr did have a barrel recall a while ago where they milled a small section of the feed ramp.
That's it - I have about 4K with only 3 hiccups from my reloads - not gun issues.
NOW the PM40 is a problem child and 40SW may be too much snap for a short grip.
Get the PM9 and run 1K plus rounds through it cleaning it after each session then join the pocket carry PM9 club. Literally drops in your front pocket in most pants with a Hedley leather holster - front or back pocket.
Add some XS big dot night sights and it's fast to target, better than a belly gun, in 9mm, and very concealable. My Kel Tec P-32 sees little carry time.
PM-9 no doubt.
Used to own an E9 too but not as concealable.
As someone stated, GT has a strong PM9 following and many of us have not problems. Kahr did have a barrel recall a while ago where they milled a small section of the feed ramp.
That's it - I have about 4K with only 3 hiccups from my reloads - not gun issues.
NOW the PM40 is a problem child and 40SW may be too much snap for a short grip.
Get the PM9 and run 1K plus rounds through it cleaning it after each session then join the pocket carry PM9 club. Literally drops in your front pocket in most pants with a Hedley leather holster - front or back pocket.
Add some XS big dot night sights and it's fast to target, better than a belly gun, in 9mm, and very concealable. My Kel Tec P-32 sees little carry time.
PM-9 no doubt.
Used to own an E9 too but not as concealable.
The best defensive gun is the one you are going to carry. For me the PM9 is the lightest, most concealable and comfortable to carry firearm that packs enough defensive firepower on the market today. It's kind of a finicky piece that you need to keep clean and well lubed but for me it's been reliable after the breakin. Get a good tuckable holster and you can carry this gun everywhere.
duncan
Member
made2cut has some good points.
Kahr has made some good gun but had occassional QC issues.
To be on the safe side, it's best to fluff and buff your gun thoroughly before hitting the range.
Wetsand the feed ramp with oil and 500-1000 grit snadpaper suitable for metal - just get a mirror finish - get out any milling imperfections - dremel with Flitz metal polish.
Lightly oil wetsand the inside of the slide's rails - again working to smooth not remove or alter.
Touch up the internals.
Basically what you would do to a non-custom production grade 1911 or any other gun you MUST have 100 percent. I do moderate F&B on all of my gun and to date have not had any of these problems people on the Net complain about.
Remember, if you gun is dirty, it WILL malfunction on you. May take 2K rounds but it will. at least that's how you have to think. You'd be surprised how many LEOs and civilians carry dirty guns and try to qualify and get stovepipes, FTF, FTE and are not limp wrisiting
Hate to say it but few production gun are as tight quality wise as I'd like unless you start spending in the $1,000 plus range. No problems with any of my HK P7s
Just F&B those Kahrs! Had two of them thus far and that tweaked worked to get me the relaibility I demand!
Kahr has made some good gun but had occassional QC issues.
To be on the safe side, it's best to fluff and buff your gun thoroughly before hitting the range.
Wetsand the feed ramp with oil and 500-1000 grit snadpaper suitable for metal - just get a mirror finish - get out any milling imperfections - dremel with Flitz metal polish.
Lightly oil wetsand the inside of the slide's rails - again working to smooth not remove or alter.
Touch up the internals.
Basically what you would do to a non-custom production grade 1911 or any other gun you MUST have 100 percent. I do moderate F&B on all of my gun and to date have not had any of these problems people on the Net complain about.
Remember, if you gun is dirty, it WILL malfunction on you. May take 2K rounds but it will. at least that's how you have to think. You'd be surprised how many LEOs and civilians carry dirty guns and try to qualify and get stovepipes, FTF, FTE and are not limp wrisiting
Hate to say it but few production gun are as tight quality wise as I'd like unless you start spending in the $1,000 plus range. No problems with any of my HK P7s
Just F&B those Kahrs! Had two of them thus far and that tweaked worked to get me the relaibility I demand!
By my count in this thread, 21 people responded with reliabilty reports so far. 14 had 100% reliabilty after break-in or were at least pleased with the reliability. I take that to mean they felt it was reliable. 7 poeple had problems that persisted after break that included trips back to the factory or other major problems. That is 33% faliure rate!
Let me first say that I am a HUGE fan of the all steel Kahrs and currently own two K-9s that have had minor custom work done to them. I have had probably close to 75 handguns in my life and the Kahr K-9 is my all time favorite. I recently purchased a new P-9 and had high hopes that it would be everything the K-9 was but in a lighter package. It is not! The P-9 is no K-9 in terms of quality or reliabilty. The P-9 is supposed to be more reliable than the PM-9 since it is larger and is more forgiving. I would not buy another P-series gun from Kahr until they compleatly redesign the gun. It is not up to snuff I am sad to say. The K-9 is one of the nicest guns you can buy for any price. With a little custom work like polishing the chamber and feedramp and a few other minor things, it is as good as gun it's size has ever been. It is accurate, reliable, handles recoil well and is made like a swiss watch. How they went so wrong with the P-series is beyond me. Don't judge the K-series based on the P-series because they are not the same gun. The P-series reminds me of a cheap version of the K-series where the only object was to cash in on the plastic hype that is going on now.
Let me first say that I am a HUGE fan of the all steel Kahrs and currently own two K-9s that have had minor custom work done to them. I have had probably close to 75 handguns in my life and the Kahr K-9 is my all time favorite. I recently purchased a new P-9 and had high hopes that it would be everything the K-9 was but in a lighter package. It is not! The P-9 is no K-9 in terms of quality or reliabilty. The P-9 is supposed to be more reliable than the PM-9 since it is larger and is more forgiving. I would not buy another P-series gun from Kahr until they compleatly redesign the gun. It is not up to snuff I am sad to say. The K-9 is one of the nicest guns you can buy for any price. With a little custom work like polishing the chamber and feedramp and a few other minor things, it is as good as gun it's size has ever been. It is accurate, reliable, handles recoil well and is made like a swiss watch. How they went so wrong with the P-series is beyond me. Don't judge the K-series based on the P-series because they are not the same gun. The P-series reminds me of a cheap version of the K-series where the only object was to cash in on the plastic hype that is going on now.
duncan
Member
You need a much larger pool of Kahr owners to make a statement like that. Think you would need about 700-800 plus to make a valid conclusion.
Again, not everyone knows how to properly operate a gun, clean, or gunsmith it right.
Polymer grip with a short heavy slide can get some FTE, FTF, and stovepiping.
Again, I've seen dozens of LEOs with perfectly good Glocks, Sigs, and HKs produce an amazing number of gun malfunctions.
So that rate may not be valid (but Kahr did have a barrel recall on the PM9s)
Even with the recall, many of us on the Kahr GT forum were not having any problems with out PM9s - just use shorter JHPs. The longer ones tended to cause problems for those complaining.
Remember, sometimes recalls are lawsuit avoiders. If 1 out of 1,000 improperly loads a long JHP that won't fully chamber due ot the feed ramp size (where most of use would notice out of battery) and that fool ignite the round, gets a kaboom injuring his hand, them he might sue. So some product recalls may have nothing to do with bad design or machining but the company lawyer may be nervous.
As a company lawyer, we do those things sometimes.
Got to use the product the right way and we sure know that some people have no common sense. Look at your lawnmower. Ever mow the lawn drunk going uphill barefoot in the rain with thunderstorms? Well that disclaimer is there because someone somewhere did! Guy apparnelty got struck by lightning and the mower backed over his legs cutting off his foot!
Just the facts or at least well-thought through analyses.
DHart
Member
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a polymer frame Kahr if you desire a lightweight for carry duty. Most of the run just fine and I think at this point that the issues have pretty much been ironed out. Remember too that if you should have a problem with the gun (and many people DO from ALL the gun brands out there!!!), the manufacturer will make it right or replace it. I see the choice as being very low risk indeed. Heck you could buy a steel frame Kahr and get one that has issues... it happens with ALL gun models. Don't worry... Kahr will take care of you no matter which model you select. I love my PM-9 and it has been perfectly reliable. Wouldn't mind having a K9 also... they're great guns too.
"You need a much larger pool of Kahr owners to make a statement like that. Think you would need about 700-800 plus to make a valid conclusion."
No I don't, I took my results from this thread. i know what you are saying however and I seriously doubt that 33% of plastic Kahrs have problems but I have NO doubt that more platic Kahrs than steel Kahrs have problems.
Would someone like to argue that statement? I doubt it is possible.
No I don't, I took my results from this thread. i know what you are saying however and I seriously doubt that 33% of plastic Kahrs have problems but I have NO doubt that more platic Kahrs than steel Kahrs have problems.
Would someone like to argue that statement? I doubt it is possible.
duncan
Member
It agree with that point that Kahr polymers have had more issues than the steel models. No doubt - you're right there.
But I remember seeing a lot of K9s and E9s around 1999-2000 that had too many FTF in several gun ranges around Seattle then
But, that is true for a lot of guns. Steel slides and polymer frames are a difficult design to implement as the muzzle tends to point down.
Look at the SigPro or the polymer 1911s. They Glocks just don't have very many problems because they have generous tolerances.
But I remember seeing a lot of K9s and E9s around 1999-2000 that had too many FTF in several gun ranges around Seattle then
But, that is true for a lot of guns. Steel slides and polymer frames are a difficult design to implement as the muzzle tends to point down.
Look at the SigPro or the polymer 1911s. They Glocks just don't have very many problems because they have generous tolerances.
Bubbaman
Member
I'm a dealer and have seen many polymer Kahrs. I've only had one that was bad - a PM40 (something in the cocking cam - trigger wouldn't always reset). I personally have a Tungsten DLC PM9 that has never missed a beat. I think in this small package the 9mm is better, holding one more round. By the way, the PM40 that had a problem, went back to Kahr one day and I received it back in three days. They paid for everything. Buy a PM9, and shoot it about 300 times to see how it runs. Don't be surprised if you have a few problems early on (my PM9 never had break-in issues), but they usually become reliable after the 200 round break-in period.
I'd look at Bersa (that's what I'm doing... used to have a wonderful PM9, but it was stolen and I'm not wild about spending the $ again since I'm a college student). One way to look at it is you could have a Bersa or your pick of something similar along the lines of the Kel-Tecs, Ruger revolvers, or MAYBE a Smith, and an AK for the just about the price of one PM9 these days... which is one of many reasons I bought an AK recently 
That aside, if money was no object I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Kahr again. I voted for reliability.
That aside, if money was no object I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Kahr again. I voted for reliability.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
I bought a PM9 in April 2006. It had serious malfunctioning problems which would not go away after break-in, so I sent it back. They replaced the barrel and recoil spring and it has been fine since. It is actually my most frequently carried handgun because it so easy to just drop in a pocket (with a Mika pocket holster). Despite being about the same size and weight as a lightweight .38 snubnose revolver, it is far more pleasant to shoot and holds two more rounds of what I believe to be a more efficient cartridge.
Grandpa Shooter
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I have had two polymer guns blow up in my hands, neither one a Kahr, That kind of made me skittish about Polymer guns. I bought a K-40 in stainless and have carried it for around 6 years. Yes it is slightly heavier, but the weight has a secure feeling about it. I went on to buy a couple of other polymers, but still come back to the Kahr.
For self defense carry, I like that it is double action only--makes me think about whether or not I want to keep pulling the trigger. It is extremely accurate out to 25 feet. Half dollar size pattern, at least in my hands. I vote for the stainless 40
For self defense carry, I like that it is double action only--makes me think about whether or not I want to keep pulling the trigger. It is extremely accurate out to 25 feet. Half dollar size pattern, at least in my hands. I vote for the stainless 40
DAdams
Member
PM9
This pretty much is the same experience as TLH; I had with my 2007 PM9. Since it has been fixed I am at around 250 mixed bag rounds of various JHP with no futher problems. I like the form factor and plan on keeping it.
What the hey, give it another run.
This pretty much is the same experience as TLH; I had with my 2007 PM9. Since it has been fixed I am at around 250 mixed bag rounds of various JHP with no futher problems. I like the form factor and plan on keeping it.
What the hey, give it another run.
SEMO Shooter
Member
I bought a PM9 last fall. During the 200 round break in it would often not return fully to battery. Kahr sent me a new barrel and recoil guide rod assembly. After the next 100 rounds it smoothed out and has functioned great since.
I carry my compact 1911 most of the time. I carry the PM9 when I have to carry a pocket gun.
I carry my compact 1911 most of the time. I carry the PM9 when I have to carry a pocket gun.
RNB65
Member
The above poll appears to be consistent with previous polls which have reported between 20-25% problem rates with NIB Kahr poly pistols. 20-25% failure rate might be acceptable if we were talking about a $300 Kel-Tec, but, IMHO, it's totally unacceptable for a handgun that retails for $600 or more. Also, let's not overlook that the Kahr poly line was introduced in 2000, so it's not like they haven't had plenty of time to work the bugs out. Yet, there is ample evidence that the problems continue.
For the record, I own a P9 and it jammed terribly when I bought it NIB in early 2006. I put 600 rounds through and cleaned it multiple times with no improvement before sending it to Kahr for repair. It cycles fine now though it still has chronic problems going into battery on the first round when the slide is dropped. I often have to give it a forward assist with the heel of my hand to close the slide. The P9 is the only gun I've ever purchased that I truly regret buying.
For the record, I own a P9 and it jammed terribly when I bought it NIB in early 2006. I put 600 rounds through and cleaned it multiple times with no improvement before sending it to Kahr for repair. It cycles fine now though it still has chronic problems going into battery on the first round when the slide is dropped. I often have to give it a forward assist with the heel of my hand to close the slide. The P9 is the only gun I've ever purchased that I truly regret buying.
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Mad Magyar
Member
Before deciding on your purchase, read the latest review in HANDGUNS on the PM9....Just another viewpoint.....
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