Tell me about the S&W Model of 1950 please.

[jdkelly]

I was at a Gun Show today and saw a SS (nickel)"S&W Model of 1950". As a 45 ACP with a four inch barrel it's very much like the hand gun type I want for IDPA.

It had "1954" printed where newer guns have model numbers and looked too new to be fifty years old. It's serial number was S85XXX I think.

Could you tell me about the "S&W Model of 1950" history?

(I did a search and came up with a lot of incomplete information.)

Thank You.

Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[uglygun]

1950 Target Model revolvers, of all chamberings, are typically very sought after guns to the collector.


For serious bullseye competition the 1950 Target Models supposedly weren't found to be very favorable due to the lighter/thinner barrel profiles. As a result a heavier weight "1955" Target Model came out later that had the heavier full thickness barrel as seen on the Model 29.


The 1950 Target Model was what the gun was called before model numbers, that specific gun in 45ACP became the Model 26 when model numbers were introduced. The 1955 heavier barrel 45ACP became the Model 25 with the introduction of model numbers.


The barrel profile of the 1950 Target Models is very much similar to that of today's "Mountain Gun" models. If I remember correctly a small run of 45ACP "Mountain Gun" Model 25s were done a few years back, probably in stainless as the blued Mountain Guns were rather recent models. This is likely to be the closest modern day model that you will be able to find to that old gun.


How much did the person want for that Nickle 1950 Target Model? It sounds like it would have been a pretty rare variant of a 1950's Target Model if it was original factory, most of the guns I'm aware of were blued with polished blue being pretty rare.


Others will be able to give more information than this but I would have loved to have seen the gun. My 38/44 Outdoorsman is in the family of 1950 Target Model type guns and I love it dearly, I have a deep desire to aquire as many 1950 Target Model N-frames as possible one of these days. VERY nice shooters in my experience.

 

[jdkelly]

Thank you for the information!

ulgygun,

Thank you for the information, it was very interesting and well written to boot.

They wanted $439 for the gun but he said he'd take $400 with shipping to an in state FFL. I've been looking for a 4" mountian style 625-like (pre lock) hand gun and this seems to fit that bill. It appears to be lightly shot and too new for a 50 year old gun. I was wondering if Smith had a run of them in the last 10-20 years?

Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[B27]

This is the 1955 Target Model-



-a previous owner has replaced the original grips with a set cut for speedloaders.

 

[Old Fuff]

Something is off here ...

The model 1950 was a target revolver, 6 1/2" barrel, blued, chambered in .45 ACP (with clips) or .45 A.R. (without) Approximately 200 were made in .45 Colt between 1953 to 1957. These can be identified because thay had a longer cylinder then those chambered in .45 ACP. The outside configuration of the barrel was similar to the .357 Magnum (later model 27).

Serial number S 85xxx would place it sometime around 1952.

I find no evidence that S&W ever cateloged the 1950 .45 Target in a 4 inch/nickel version.

I think someone (perhaps S&W) shorten the barrel, remounted the front sight, and nickel plated it. How good all of this is would depend on who did the work.

It could also be a parts gun, made up on a N-frame that left the factory as something else. To tell, someone would have to send $30.00 to S&W and have the factory historian, Roy Jinks check out the old records. He, and only he could pin that serial number down to exactly what it was.

 

[jdkelly]

Thank you for the information!

Old Fuff,

Thank you for the information, when I receive the gun I'll check with Mr. Jinks and get the facts. Would you have a contact number or e-mail for him?

The seller did say something about it being a prototype, but..... that's just hearsay.

I'll be happy if it turns into a good shooter, and if it's a part gun I'll continue looking for something IDPA legal.



B27,

Nice gun!



Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[uglygun]

It could still prove interesting.

Depending on the date of manufacture I can't help but wonder if it was something done before the introduction of the Model 26. The Model 26 was offered in a variety of barrel lengths from what I've read but I don't know about a variety of finishes.


Do you happen to remember how many screws the gun had? Did it look like a 5screw N-frame?

 

[Old Fuff]

Dear Ugly ....

Yes, this revolver pre-dates the model 26. S&W started using model numbers in place of names in 1957, and the serial number on the gun is question indicates it (or at least the frame) was made around 1952. Always remember someone could have taken a revolver originally made in one caliber, and changed the barrel and cylinder.

jdkelly:

Roy Jinks is the Smith & Wesson's company historian - and the ultimate authority about almost anything that has too do with S&W guns. He also has full access to the company's records.

He can be reached at:

Smith & Wesson, Inc.
P.O. Box 2208
Springfield MA. 01102
ATTN: Mr. Roy Jinks

You will need to send the following:

A check in the amount of $30.00 made out to Smith & Wesson (some of it will be donated to the U. S. Olympic Shooting Team).

A snapshot or picture of the gun (to help with identification).

A description, including the full serial number on the butt (no XX's in the place of numbers).

Expect to wait 4 to 6 weeks for an answer. It takes time to find the information you want. For the most part the records are not computerized.

Also see: www.smith-wesson.com

 

[uglygun]

I was thinking along those lines of a gun that was pre-model numbers yet something close to the end of the pre-model number time frame but still before the era when S&W switched to model numbers.

I know things like Model 28s or Pre-28s were often used for untold number of conversions for whatever the reason.

Kinda suspect, but there's always that chance that the gun in question was something custom.

 

[Old Fuff]

Yes, anything is possible - which is the reason Roy Jinks is doing what he does so well. For $30.00 all the questions can be resolved.

Anyway, back in the early 50's S&W didn't have a Performance Center Custom Shop as such. That being the case their Repair Department did a fair amount of special order work. Shortining a barrel, remounting the front sight, and changing the finish from blue to nickel would not have been difficult. One clue to a shortened barrel is that the "Smith & Wesson" stamp on the left side will be off-center from back to front.

But at the same time private custom shops and pistolsmiths were doing the same thing. It must also be remembered that if this revolver was converted to it's present configuration, the work could have been done anytime from the early-middle 1950's until maybe a month ago.

I am very doubtful there it any truth to the prototype story. But we shall see.

Bottom line: I hope S&W did make or convert the gun simply so that jdkelly can use it in IDPA matches. If not, it will still make one heck of a good big-bore carry gun.

Also during this time period the .357 Highway Patrolman /model 28 was the least expensive target grade N-frame you could buy, and for that reason was often chosen for all kinds of custom conversions. It was and remains one of the "best buys" Smith & Wesson ever made.

 

[Jim K]

I think I may be able to clear up one thing. If the number "1954" is on the frame and crane, it is an assembly number, not the date the gun was made. Alas, S&W did not date their guns (collectors would have less problems if they had). As for an odd barrel length, S&W would from time to time run off a special order for a gunshop or about anyone willing to order a hundred or so of them. They would even do custom one-off orders if not too far out of line. These would not have been "converted"; they would have been made by the factory as they are, so markings would be "correct".

As an example, if 4" barrels are not being cataloged in .45, but a 4" barrel is being made in .44 caliber, and someone wants a 4" barrel in .45, it is simple to run a partly finished .44 barrel through the .45 line, so it is bored, rifled, and marked for .45.

Jim

 

[BluesBear]

The standard barrel length of the 1950 Target was 6½".

However if you check the Standard Catalog of S&W 2nd Edition page 142, it states that 4" and 5" barrel lengths are rare. WHiuch means they do exist.

The serial number indicates it was made in 1952.

So there is a very good chance that the 4" barrel IS original.
As for the nickel finish? Well it is possible that it might be factory. S&W offered refinishing services for their revolvers from one finish to another at a very reasonable price.

If this turns out to be a factory original 4" with a factory refinish it would have some collector value.
If it were to turn out to be both original in barral AND finish it would have quite a bit of collector interest!


The bottom line is, even if it was shortened and refinished by an outside source, at the price stated it would make one hell of a shooter.
I'd be sending a MO to Roy Jinks the day I brought it home.

In a former life I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat!
As it is I can only sit and drool.

 

[jdkelly]

Thank you guys!

I don't remember the number of screws the gun had, I was looking for a shooter and didn't think to look.

When I get the gun, perhaps on Tuesday, I'll send the information to Mr. Jinks and find out what we can. Of couse I'll update this thread at that time.

From what you've said I expect it to be one mans cobbled together idea of what a revolver should be. If its a good shooter I'll get some use out of it.

I'll need to start shooting it soon as I just made Expert in CDP this afternoon.

Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[Old Fuff]

B.B ma' friend ...

This particular gun is apparently a pre-model 26 (.45ACP 1950 Target) that was made well before they started numbering models in 1957. Admitedly there were some shorter barrel lengths made during the model 26 era, but if you turn to page 120 in "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 2nd Ed.)" you'll notice that the Model 1950 Target (pre-model 26) doesn't list optional barrel lengths.

This of course doesn't mean they didn't make any.

That's why some imput from Roy Jinks would be so helpful.

 

[Dienekes]

All of which serves to remind us that once upon a time S&W made some very nice variations on lots of very nice guns--a lot of which flew under the radar. I remember seeing some nice odd ones at H.H. Harris police supply in CHI circa 1965.

Like a darned fool I threw what little money I had away on food and clothing instead of lovely S&Ws.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

I own a M-25-2 with the "45 Cal. Model 1950" on the right side of the barrel. The barrel is 6.5 inch and is not, I repeat, not tapered. Yes, it is a 1950 model.

It is identical to the M-25-2 1955 45 Cal. ACP I used to own.

 

[BluesBear]

Yes & No

Pinned & Recessed,
YES you have a Model of 1950... almost.

It seem that there was one days production (or so) of BARRELS for 1955 Target Model revolvers manufactured in which someone mistakenly used the Model of 1950 rollmark instead of the correct Model of 1955.

S&W has always been a frugal company and therefore these finished barrels were used. ot is estimated that about 200 1955 models mistakenly marked 1950 exist.

So you do and you don't have a heavy barrel Model of 1950.
If you had the original box it woiuld be marked Model of 1955.

 

[BluesBear]

Old Fuff my compadre,

Yes there is no mention of the rare barrel lengths in the section of SCS&W/2 regarding pre-Model 26 revolvers. But I have found that there was so much overlap as to what was done both before and after the model number system was adopted.

I am sure that you have noticed as I have that anything done after the number system was adopted was probably also done, (usually in greater numbers too) before the terninology change.

Based of observations and readings I think S&W was less likely to produce custom variations during the 1957-1966 era than they were before.

Case in point, there was a county police office in my hometown that had a 1955 Target model with a factory barrel that measured 4¼" from muzzle to cylinder face. It was obviously factory, complete with standard patridge front sight on an intact rib & ramp with centered barrel markings.

I have found no reference to any barrel that short on that model. However I know it existed since I held it and fired it. (and dang was it ever sweet)
He carried it until around 1978 when his department required everyone to change to revolvers chambered in either .38 Special or .357 Magnum only.

 

[Old Fuff]

I agree ... up to a point. I lived through that era and had some work done at S&W myself.

But in my view there is a difference between semi-custom work done for an individual vs. something the company ran and sold on they're own. During the 50's they did a fair amount of work for individuals, but the practice of making short production runs of a special configurations came later.

One good example. After they introduced the .38 Target Masterpiece (narrow rib) a lot of law enforcement officers - FBI Agents in particular - bought these revolvers and sent them back to S&W to have the barrels shortened to 4 inches, and a Baugman-style front sight mounted. But the guns became so popular the Repair Department couldn't keep up. So eventually S&W introduced the same gun as the Combat Masterpiece (later model 15) which became one of the most popular K-frame guns in their history.

I wouldn't make an issue of it except jdkelly wants to use his new gun in IDPA competition, and do do this it can't be custom modified, even by the factory - if I understand the rules as written. So to use the above example, you could use a model 15 in IDPA, but not a modified model 14.

Anyway, a letter with the serial number to Roy Jinks would (will) quickly clear all of this up.

 

[BluesBear]

Old Fuff, I think we are actually of like minds here.

I am hoping that his revolver will letter out to be a factory job so, armed with the letter to avoid any disputes, he can use it.

I really enjoy watching a person who really knows how, use a nice vintage firearm against all of the newest-latest-more-better superguns.



Age & Experience will triumph over Youth & Impetuousness every time.

 

[jdkelly]

Quick update

I just picked up the gun this afternoon. A quick look showed the lettering on the barrel to be offset, so it apperars to be a shortened barrel.

The finish is not SS or nickel but rather some sort of dull steel like finish. I'm not sure what has been done. I'll check the gun out better this evening when I get home from the range. I'm at work now, and while the people here are not Antis they are not Gun people either.


Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[Old Fuff]

B.B:

If age will do it I should be a world champion ...

 

[jdkelly]

Longer Update

I've got it home so I'll let you know what I see.


The left side of the barrel has Smith & Wesson with the "&" leaning on it's side, and .45 CAL. MODEL 1950 on the right side.

Smith & Wesson is off set to the muzzle side by 0.15 inches when measured to the start of the frame.

The barrel is 4.16 inches in length.

The under lug recess, the cylinder and the grip all have the same serial number.

The crane(?) has "1954", "H" and a "7" stamped in it.

The rear of the cylinder also has "54" scratched in it.

On the right side of the gun there are four screws two by the trigger, one by the top of the hammer and one by the hammer's base which is covered when the grips are on the gun.

The gun looks like a dull Stainless Steel, I don't know what is with that.

The top rib of the barrel has checkering as does the strap(?) of the rear sight.

The front sight is pinned into piece that appears to be welded onto the top rib of the barrel.

The back of the front sight has cross ways ribbing.

The trigger has length ways ribbing.

Range Report:

The DA trigger is very heavy and difficult for a SA guy like myself. In SA it is crisp and light I'd guess at 3-4 pounds.

Even though it has a harsh DA pull it strikes the W-W primers, in my hand loads, very lightly causing No-Fires.

In single action it fired every time, I think.

I think with a trigger job it will a good shooter.

I'll get the information request out to Mr Jinks at S&W tomorrow.



Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[uglygun]

Interesting, you say the barrel and top strap are checked?


Here's a picture of 3 topstraps....

Left is a Model 28-2 from mid-60s, center is a 38/44 Outdoorsman most likely to be like that of 1950 targets of that period, and right is a 27-2 from the 70s with a checked top strap and barrel rib.

I wonder if the gun could be a rebored 1950 era pre-27? Or did they make 1950 Target Models on pre-27 frames if in a pinch?

 

[jdkelly]

No w I'm more confused!

Uglygun,

The checkering on the top looks very much like the gun on the right.

Does the rear sight have the same type of checkering on below the Blade and facing the shooter?


The frame, cylinder and barrel all have the same s/n but it could have been anything, I guess.


Respectfully,

jdkelly