Tell me about Vortex Optics....

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So, I went and spent a couple of hours with the very patient and courteous staff at swfa in Midlothian today. I looked at every scope that I have been considering. They have more scopes than any place I have ever been to.


From the entry level swfa' s, to the big name $3k + - monsters. The swfa got my vote and money.

Not that I had $3k to spend on a scope. Not that there is anything wrong with spending $3k on a scope.

There is a church and church compound starting about 650 yards to their north that provided a good sighting/demo spot. Yes, the high dollar glass looked better, and the scopes had some nice convenience features, and reticles. I would have bought their 3x15 if the backorder eta had not been so far out.
 
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I'm not going to knock their glass, but it's not Leupold IMO. I have bought quite a few of their optics, spotting scopes, binoculars, and rifle scopes.

I rather like the spotting scopes for the money, not bad at all.

The binoculars aren't too great. I got a pair that already need to be sent in, and they aren't even a year old. I didn't drop them, and they are giving me double vision.

As for the rifle scopes, I'm not sold on them at all. I won't go into details, but I won't be buying any more of their scopes. But I also know a lot of guys that won't buy anything else, guess it just depends on what glass quality your used to?

I can say this much though, their CS is excellent, right up there with Leupold.

GS
 
Skylerbone said:
If the shot is further away, you really need a more precise distance (range finder) and I feel it makes more sense to range then twist that CDS dial than to calculate mils. If you don't mind math or estimation in the field and want to save on a range finder (for 300+ yd. shots) you could definitely save money choosing a scope with a ranging reticle.
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You can range with a VX-3.
 
I don't yet own a Vortex scope (and might not now), but coincidentally....I just contacted them recently...because I am/was interested in purchasing a decent quality scope for a .22 LR rifle.

Below is my email to them...and their response:

Me:

Hello,
I am interested in purchasing a Vortex Viper PST 2.5 x 10 x 44 illuminated reticle scope, but have a some questions.

I have read that the PST line of Vortex scopes are made in the Philippines. If that is true, does that mean 'assembled' there, or wholly made their?

In particular I am interested to know where the 'glass' was manufactured (Japan or Philippines, other)?

Anything you can tell me about the manufacture will be appreciated.

Thank You,

Vortex Replied:

Good morning'

Thank you for reaching out to us and for your interest. Regarding your question, the PST series is indeed manufactured in the Phillippines. Unfortunately, I am not able to share the country of origin of the glass (hint: it’s good glass). The country of origin of the lenses is considered proprietary information. Thanks again, and please let me know if you have further questions. I would be happy to help however I can.


All the best,
Jim Jordan
Vortex Optics
Consumer Sales Associate
Phone: (800) 426-0048 Ext: 332
Fax: (608) 662-7454
www.vortexoptics.com



Question: Why would they not be forthcoming with information regarding the manufacturer of their 'glass'? On the surface, this seems illusive to me.

I certainly understand...the model I am interested in is not a 'top tier' scope, but it has a street price of about $600.00, so I am more than casually interested in what kind of glass it has. I have several scopes on other rifles with glass made in Japan (L.O.W.) and I am more than satisfied with them. I wouldn't be too concerned with where it was 'assembled'.

I am not inquiring of them...to what 'spec' they are having their glass ground and polished to, just who makes it.

Anyone know?

Thank You in advance,

Flint.
 
^^^^^^^^^^

Continued from post above:


O.K. guys.....am I just being a 'pest' or is it reasonable to want to know where the 'glass' in a mid tier scope was made, before making a purchase?

In response to the last email received of Vortex (see post above this one) I sent a less 'prying' request for information, in hopes of making an educated guess at where their glass (for the Vortex PST series) is made.

The ONLY reason for my request...is that I would like to have some idea (pre-purchase) of the quality of the parts.

No such information was provided, see below:

ME: Jim,

Since you can't "share" the country of origin, can you 'hint' at who the company is?

Would it perhaps have the acronym (L.O.W.)? That would be 'good glass'.

Thank You


Vortex Response:

Sorry, but I can’t hint at manufacture, either. It is good glass, though. Thanks again and please let me know if you have further questions. Thanks again.

All the best,
Jim Jordan
Vortex Optics
Consumer Sales Associate
Phone: (800) 426-0048 Ext: 332

End Quote.....................


It might well be "good glass", but if it is....you would think the manufacturer would be proud of that and use that as a selling point. Yes?

What am I missing here?

Am I being too picky/demanding.........give me the smack down, if I am.

If anyone has a Vortex Viper PST 2.5 x 10 x 44mm and can unequivocally concur, it has decent glass (and you KNOW what decent glass is), I am all to willing to let this go (I think). ;)

I need to make a scope decision in the very near future.

Thank You in advance.

Flint.
 
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They may not have the rights to tell you that or use their name. Hinting would be a violation as well...


Vortex makes great products in their price point, and if you buy the Vortex that meets your budget you will not be disappointed.

You may have more money than I do, and I have more money than some of my rural friends. One thought I was crazy for spending $300 on a Vortex.

His scope doesn't work 20 minutes before sundown and I can barely make out trees with it in mid-day 300 yards away. Mine works till the sun has been down for a while and I can make out blades of grass at 300. I would not trade our two scopes for $250 which is the price difference.
 
I am looking for a decent scope to put on a CZ 455 for pest control, some of that 'duty' will be at night or low light (hence the desire for a lighted reticle). The need for 'decent' glass is paramount, but I don't really need top tier glass for what will be (on average), shots of 100 yds. or less.

I am happy to spend $600.00-$750.00 and feel that I can find something suitable in that price range. I've been comparing features on several scopes and the Vortex is high on the list of things I am looking for.

However, the non-disclosure of where (or by whom) their glass (for the PST) is made... presents a stumbling block for me. IF their glass is manufactured in the Philippines (to reasonably high specs), I could probably live with that. I would MUCH prefer good Japanese glass in that price tier however. It just seems 'illusive' to me that they will not disclose that information.
 
I guess it all comes down to the reason you want to know.

I can totally understand wanting to know for political/economic reasons (i.e. is it made in a country that you don't want to support with your dollars?), but if you want to know because you think a particular country can produce a better piece of glass than another, just let your eyes make the decision - if it looks good enough to you, what difference does it make where it was made or who produced it?
 
I guess it all comes down to the reason you want to know.
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Yes. And I suppose also... the reason they don't want to tell me?

I can totally understand wanting to know for political/economic reasons (i.e. is it made in a country that you don't want to support with your dollars?),
Click to expand...

I do have a preference, but that is all it is (a preference).


but if you want to know because you think a particular country can produce a better piece of glass than another,
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Not necessarily anything to do with the "Country" where it is produced, but the COMPANY who manufactures it. Since we are not privy to the 'origin' of manufacture, the next best clue...would be the company.

And YES....there are a few well respected optics manufacturers with MANY more years experience making good glass...than certain others.

I understand that 'supposedly' the glass would be produced to a certain price point (grind,polish,coatings).

Whether or not that happens with the lesser known manufacturers...I can not say, but the better Asian companies have a solid track record.

IF a manufacturer in the Philippines/Other can truly produce a product of equal quality, good for them...the market will slowly recognize and reward them for that.

Unless Vortex is afraid the origin of their glass (in the VIPER line) would be 'perceived' as a lesser quality item, then why would they not promote it?


just let your eyes make the decision - if it looks good enough to you, what difference does it make where it was made or who produced it?
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It would not make a difference to me (unless Chinese made). As you allude to...the product would either satisfy me or not.

However, I do not have a source (anything like locally) where I can go and "look" through the scope. I am sure that is true for many folks.

So I am doing my best to make a decision based on information I can gather and the testimony of others (who may or may not know a good product when they see it).

While the scope is certainly not 'expensive', it will have a street price of about $600.00. Just enough that I would like not to be overly disappointed.

Again, not a problem...IF I could put my hands on one before purchasing.

Remember this famous line: "We have to pass the bill to see what is IN the bill". ?

Analogously, I would like to avoid that kind of surprise. ;) (purchase one...so I can look through it)

IF I fail to do my 'homework' and purchase an optic of no outstanding value, then it will be my own fault.

But, that becomes more likely when/if the manufacturer is less than 'helpful' in providing answers to simple questions.

I am not exactly soliciting 'trade secrets' from them...you understand.
 
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Flint, while I do not have the particular scope that you are looking at, I do have a 6-24x50 PST (also 'made' in the Phillipines). I regularly shoot with a buddy who runs a S&B PMII 5-25x56 who was very surprised in the quality of the glass that the Vortex has. Another friend that shoots with us has a Bushnell HDMR on the way, and we are quite excited to compare that glass (also known as being great for the price) to the glass in my Vortex.

The man who got me into long range shooting just purchased a NF NXS 2.5-10x32 to be used on his 6.8 for shooting out to 500 yards. Comparing the glass at 10x to my Vortex at midday, a ever so slight edge goes to the NF.

I do hope this helps some, even though I'm not quite comparing apples to apples. (I, like you, find it odd that Vortex won't let you know where the glass is made)
 
jlr1962 said:
6x24 viper pst ffp ebr-2, If find one to put my hands on before payment, I will get it. I have had bad luck with optics that I didn't test prior to purchase.

In God we trust!!!
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As I mentioned in my last post, that is the exact scope that I am currently running on my long range rig. Shooting side by side with a S&B PMII it has kept up well, only showing that it is lacking at reducing glare when the sun is at just the right (wrong) spot. However, even the S&B had a noticeable amount of glare at this time that affected shooting.

The only thing I don't like about the reticle is where the elevation hold numbers are. They are sitting right about your .4 mil right hold which I don't like at all. I would much prefer the numbers to be on the outside of the Christmas tree where they would be out of the way and I could make a more precise hold.
 
Best I could do: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_277/159590_Who_is_Vortex_Optics_.html

Logic follows that Japan would be their source for lenses in the model line you're looking at. I had a guide several years ago who, without Any familiarity with Vortex remarked that my Vortex Fury binos were as clear and bright as his $1,200 pair of Leica as he compared them side-by-side and the Fury line is nowhere near the pinnicle of the Vortex line. Best of luck on your decision.
 
Thanks for that link - interesting reading, even if it is not the most current (circa 2007/2008).
 
Check out the power ring before you buy that particular scope. I bought a Vortex 4x16 HS-T without checking it and it's got a power ring that I almost can't turn because it's so tight! The forums indicate this isn't a rare problem for Vortex scopes. Otherwise I like the scope but I'll either need to send it back or buy a $60.00 lever to put on the power ring to turn it -- not good!

Crockett12
 
Im on my second Vortex Viper PST.

First one was a 6-24x50 second focal plain model that I had on a long range rig. It was a great scope for the money. Only reason I sold it was to fund a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50 that a friend was selling at to good of a price to pass up.

I currently have the 2.5-10x32 FFP mil/mil on my SPR build. While I havent got it out past 100 yards yet my friend has the same scope (except moa/moa) on his SPR and was able to make consistent on steel out to 750 yards. The scope was clear enough for him to aim for head shots at that distance on the steel silhouette.

Edit to add: The Viper PST line has replaced the Leupold Mk4 line for me when it comes to sub 1500 dollar "tactical" scopes. You get more options on the scope for the money and the glass is comparable to my eyes. Bu the time you spec out a Mk4 to what the Viper PST has you are in Nightforce territory price wise.

Since this thread is in dire need of pictures here is my SPR with the Viper PST.

CSC_0011_zps2dab9b83.jpg
 
At least for hunting I do not see how the FFP is a huge advantage. Most ethical big game hunters try to get within 300 yards of their quarry. I have a Nikon scope with BDC. I simply looked at deer that were at known distances in my field. I am sure most of you are aware of how a sabot just starts dropping like a stone at 175 yards. I looked at the deer in the BDC circles if the deer is completely in the circle I need to get closer.

One quick note if you are on public land testing your scope make sure there is no ammunition on your person or in your vehicle. You don't need a hunting out of season ticket for trying to do the right thing.
 
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Johnny_B_Goode said:
At least for hunting I do not see how the FFP is a huge advantage. Most ethical big game hunters try to get within 300 yards of their quarry. I have a Nikon scope with BDC. I simply looked at deer that were at known distances in my field. I am sure most of you are aware of how a sabot just starts dropping like a stone at 175 yards. I looked at the deer in the BDC circles if the deer is completely in the circle I need to get closer.

One quick note if you are on public land testing your scope make sure there is no ammunition on your person or in your vehicle. You don't need a hunting out of season ticket for trying to do the right thing.
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Do you know what your BDC holds are on max magnification? On minimum? What about all the magnifications between?

With an FFP that BDC is the same at every magnification.
 
Do you know what your BDC holds are on max magnification? On minimum? What about all the magnifications between?

With an FFP that BDC is the same at every magnification.
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I agree with Johnny_B_Goode on this one. I have a number of FFP scopes including Premier Reticles, Nightforce, Leupold and now Vortex but I hunt "big" game with SFP scopes from Zeiss with the RZ family of reticles. I use a silver permanent marker to put a dot on the ocular bell to correspond with the magnification that provides the most accurate correlation between holdovers and bullet drop. For example, on my Kimber Talkeetna chambered in .375 H&H Mag I have a silver dot at 7.5x on the Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40mm scope with RZ600 reticle since at this magnifcation my holdovers are accurate out to 625 yards. I keep the scope on this 7.5x setting and if I need to dial the magnifcation down to 3x I don't need to worry about holdovers. It's a very simple system that doesn't require messing with parallax or turrets. I was hunting mule deer last October and there really wasn't much time to be messing with power settings anyway. 7.5X is perfect for just about any animal out to 400 yards, and frankly, I have no business taking shots at a big animal much past that from field positions. In a nutshell, I use my scopes on two power settings, either 3x where holdovers aren't important, or some value near maximum magnification where the holdovers are accurate.

rz600.jpg
 
I have the 2.5-10x32 on my Ptr-91f "DMR". It's an awesome medium range target scope, clear glass, and the EBR-1 reticle and target turrets make range adjustments easy, whether you dial in or need a holdover snapshot. FFP means it's accurate regardless of magnification. That said, I'm not entirely sure it would be my first choice for a dedicated hunting rifle. While it's relatively quick to acquire at 2.5x, the reticle is quite fine, especially in low light without the illuminator on. Unless you plan to take shots on game at over 400 yards, I'm not sure the reticle or turrets would add any utility for you. You might look into a non-PST model with the "dead hold BDC" as a better option for most hunting scenarios. That said, if you spend more time at the range than in the field, and are planning to do any medium-long range target shooting with the same rifle, the PST would be well suited as a dual purpose optic.
 
I have some reasonably extensive experience, both hunting and with scopes and rangefinders.

If I were reasonably inexperienced, I would go for a useful rangefinder and a useful 2nd FP scope. The benefit of a FFP is range estimation....if you don't have much experience, go for a RF and a 2nd FP scope. No give-up if you have a way to put bullet drop compensation in.

Now if you're going to be successful at hunting, you have to know:

1. the ballistics of your ammo
2. the range of your target

If you don't know either, you'll wound/miss target and be an unsuccessful hunter. Alternatively, sight your .308/.30-06 in 2-3" high at 100 yards and limit your shots to 250 yards.

Have a nice day.

Harry
 
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