Tell me more about K-frames....

[357wheelgunner]

OK, I already have a 3" model 65, and a 3" model 66, but I just ordered a new-in-the-box model 66-2 4". This is gonna be my main full-size defensive pistol and I want to shoot it, a lot. I am intending to take a defensive pistol class, and I'd like to use this pistol, but my guts tell me to keep the number of .357s I shoot through it to a minimum. I am kinda poor now, and can't afford to replace one of my few guns if I wear one out, which is why I am afraid to beat mine up. I rarely shoot .357s out of my k-frames, and when I do I only use 158gr ammo.

Do I really need to worry about wearing out my K-frames if I shoot a few thousand rounds of .357 through one at a shooting school, or in the yard? Has anyone here actually worn out a k-frame?


Oh yeah the NIB model 66-2 was $425, with no MIM parts, ugly lock, and nice wood grips. The "S&W Combat Masterpiece" is finally mine!!!!!

FYI they had an older model 686 4", also NIB for $440. The store is Fletcher's in Waukesha, WI phone #262-549-4488

 

[thatguy]

I have heard 1 or 2 people say that their K frame 357s broke or wore quickly with full loads. I have heard maybe 5 or 6 people claim to have fired many thousands of such rounds without effect. I dunno. I hear it's the hot 110 and 125 loads that do the damage but this all I shoot in my 357s so again, I dunno. In theory a stainless gun may be a little tougher. I have two K frame 357s and one is from 1970 and has fired a lot of magnum loads. Don't know how many, but a lot. If I see any sign of wear and tear I'll let you know.

 

[P95Carry]

There are many rumors to this effect - but I have not actually met anyone with the problem or seen a gun that is beat up real bad.

For me - I think I would be reluctant to hammer ther heck out of a K frame, when L and N are so much more sturdy. I would not for instance feed real hotties thru my 19-3 as compared with say an M27-2 and even then, only 158's. Overall tho I'd rather give the multi .357 round work to a Ruger. That's just cos I am ''precious'' over my Smiths!

The beating up effect would I'd say be in ''loosening up'' ... rather than anything more serious. Tho gotta say - look at cyl walls on a K frame and they ain't the thickest in the world!

One other point ... top strap gas erosion. Flame cutting from any of the lighter bullet .357 rounds - used in very large quantity will IMO produce enough flame cutting over time to matter - on any Smith frame.

Your 66 should tho, having said all this - still be capable of giving you many 100's of rounds of pleasure with factory .357's ... plus too if you keep the chamber ring from getting too marked - 1,000's of 38 spl loads too.

 

[Coronach]

I would keep the number to a minimum and not worry about it.

Read that again.

Keep the number to a minimum...if you're going to a school, or testing out duty loads, or occasionally shooting a session of full-house loads to make sure that you can do follow-ups properly, you're fine.

Doing that will take several lifetimes to wear out the gun (unless it has a defect), so don't worry about it. Make your standard training rounds either downloaded .357 or mild .38 and shoot the snot outta the gun. You'll be fine.

If you use .38, make sure you clean the burn rings so that .357 inserts and ejects smoothly.

Mike

 

[surfinUSA]

Enjoy your gun. If you stick with 158 gr factory 357 loads or equivilant, you won't have any problems. I've put alot of rounds through K frames and they are alot stronger than people who spend more time on the computer than on the range will have you believe.

 

[STORMIN29]

K frame

Wasn't that supposed to be the reason that Smith made the 'L' frame?

 

[Clemson]

S&W made the L-frame to compete with the Python, full lug and all. The guns are the same size and use the same holsters. When S&W came out with the L-frame, it was in an attempt to gain the business back that Colt had drained away with their high-quality wheelgun. The S&W offering was the same size but without the high price tag. The fact that it was beefier than the K-frame was justified with a claim to longevity. the Internet rangemasters have taken it from there.

Clemson

 

[surfinUSA]

Keep in mind that the K frame magnums were in production for 25 years before the L frame was intorduced and 25 years after the L frame (that internet commandos will have you believe was to supercede the K frame) was introduced.

If there was a real problem with these guns they wouldn't have been in production for 50 years and they certainly wouldn't have been around long after the L frame was on the market.

Don't get me wrong the L frames are great guns but so are the K frames. Both will last a good long time. Like I said in my previous post, stick with 158 gr or heavier bullets and you'll be fine.

 

[Eskimo Jim]

357,
I'ave had my S&W 66 for a couple of years and haven't put as many 357magnums through it as I have put 38 special and 38+P through it. I generally put the 125gr 357 magnums through it beause that is the ammunition available around here. I haven't seen any ill affects.

I'd stick with the 158gr 357 magnums though.

Enjoy the K frame. If you do put too many magnums through it and you wear it out, I'm sure it will take a while and sending it to a smith shouldn't be that costly.

Good luck.

-Jim

 

[Bronco45]

Worked as a cop from 1970 to 2003 carried a Smith of one iteration or another for all of those 33 years.

L-Frames were introduced by Smith because the ammo companies were locked in fierce competition over who could make the HOTTEST 125gr JHP.
Federal and Remington were about tied. A court ruling by the US Supreme Court (those five people who on any given day who rule America) said cops had to practice with what they carried on duty. Within 18 months of that ruling 19s and 66s began showing up with eroded forcing cones and stretched frames from firing plentiful amounts of 125gr Master Blasters down range every 3 months.

Two things happened: Most cops couldn't qualify with 125gr JHPs, so Smith brought out the L Frames to deal with the throat erosion, frame stretching and recoil. Secondly: the virtues of the Semi-Auto began to be realized by police administrators for many inherent reasons that apply to the auto. The revolver-- 357 wars were over.

But the 9mm-45 wars started with the 40 S&W as the ultimate victor.

 

[mattz357]

If you're too poor to replace a K frame, you're too poor too afford enough .357 ammo to break one.

 

[Malamute]

This topic has come up several times on the smith-wessonforum site.
those that shot the guns a lot say that the pressure curve of the 125 gr loads tends to crack the lower rear part of the barrel on K's (not every one, just a tendancy, some guys have shot lots of 125's and had no trouble) The L frame guns had a thicker barrel shank. The word is that 158 gr loads don't seem to do this to the barrels.

I'll never wear out a K frame 357, I just don't like shooting 357 loads. I'd rather shoot 44's or 45 Colts as the muzzle blast isn't as severe. The smaller caliber guns are sort of light for bear country too. They make nice small game guns tho. 38 spl loads are fine for that use, but then so are 44 spl or 45 colt std level loads. Or the K-22. This must be why I haven't shot the 357 in a couple years.

 

[firinginfenton]

I load 148gr HBWC with 3.0grs of Clays in 357 mag cases and shoot it almost every weekend. Anybody that I let shoot this revolver with these loads has FUN! Accurate and LOW recoil make shooting this gun a pleasure. Of course I have to let this baby SNORT just a little, so I use 6.0grs of Titegroup behind some Rainer 125gr plated bullets just to make a little more noise. Full-out loads with W296, or other "Magnum" powders are rare thru this any more at the range. Carry ammo in this are Federal 130 gr. Personal Defense loads.

 

[grey9551]

How you shoot it

It is not so much whether you shoot 357's out of a k frame as it is how you shoot them. By this I mean even hot loads are very safe. The main point is to keep the forcing cone very clean and also the cylinders. Be careful not to let the cylinder drop open and never swing it shut or even push it shut with force.

If you do these things and spend as much time cleaning up the lead and copper deposits as you do shooting the revolver it will last you a life time.

Gary

 

[RON in PA]

It wasn't only the Smith K frames that started having forcing cone problems with the 125 grain loads, Ruger Security Sixs also had problems. This problem led to the development of the GP100.

 

[Stainz]

Measure a K and L frame yourself, if you must. The gripframes are identical. The backstop, topstrap, and trigger area are nearly identical. Same guts (The hand must be different for the 7 & 5 shots...). Frame opening is taller on the L, permitting seven-shot .357's and five-shot .44's. The front strap is a whole twenty thousandths thicker at extreme - fifteen thousandths of which are for the larger diameter forcing cone on the barrel. This enables more forcing cone erosion causing 110-125gr high speed .357 Magnums to be launched between barrel changes, as others have said. The K-frame was/is fine for .357 Magnum use with heavier standard rounds... and certainly super for .38 Special +P's.

Most folks will tell you of the natural feel of the K-frames.... and the L-frame's better recoil aborption. The difference in weight for a given barrel length is there... and easily seen. The K-frames have partial lugs, most L's, except for my new 5" half lug 686+ 'Stocking Dealer Exclusive', are full lugged. That puts the extra weight out front, where it keeps the barrel down under recoil.

I may celebrate the 66 today by buying another one. My dealer has both a 2.5" and 4" brand new 66, resplendent with their MIM parts and hammer-lock, in stock for $439 or so. My problem is deciding which one I want more!

Stainz

 

[DHart]

K-frames are a joy, for sure. But so are nearly all Smiths in their individual ways!

 

[surfinUSA]

A court ruling by the US Supreme Court (those five people who on any given day who rule America) said cops had to practice with what they carried on duty.

Bronco do you have a citation for this case? Also I believe the US supreme court has nine members.

 

[mattz357]

Of nine members, it only takes five for a majority.

 

[BluesBear]

the US Supreme Court ... said cops had to practice with what they carried on duty

And here I thought my meds caused some weird dreams.

 

[dogngun]

357 : My current carry revolver is a K frame, a 1979 model 19. It had been someone's duty gun, it has wear on the barrel from lots of holster time, and the cylinder is a little loose. It still will shoot .357 Silvertips into a very tight group, it still works all the time, and it still gets carried and serves as home defence. It is reliable, accurate, smooth, fun to shoot, and (to me) one of the coolest looking revolvers ever made.

I expect to start looking for a second one around the end of summer, not as a replacement, but because I want two of them.
The L frame is a lot of marketing, although it's also a great revolver.
Mark

 

[Trebor]

You might want to reconsider shooting large qualities of full-house magnum loads when you take a shooting class. The gun will hold up fine, but will you?

Seriously, fatigue is a factor when shooting large amounts of ammo in a short time and magnums might be more punishing then you're going to want and might impede your shooting progress in the class. My advice would be to shoot the majority of the class with either .38 Specials or .357 cases downloaded to .38 Special levels. If do you shoot some magnums, do it at the begining of the class while your still fresh. If you try them at the end, you'll also have the problem of the .38 round having built up gunk in the chambers that will keep the .357 cases from inserting or ejecting.

 

[firinginfenton]

I've said it before, I love my K frame. 148 gr. HBSWCT, with 3.0 gr of Clays, shoots clean and straight. Use 357 mag brass and all is well. Then run some plated 125 gr. w/6.0 of Titegroup to clear the bore and your day is done.
Life is good when you own a 357 Magnum. Period!