Texturing the grip front and back...How is this done??

[bigmike45]

How is this done, by hand, sand blasted, machine?????

It looks much better than checkering and I have a stainless gun I would like to do it to. Does anyone know how they do it. I might even do it to my Hi Power as well.

Help me here!!

bigmike45

 

[Fumbler]

It's called stippling and is done with hand tools (a few people use pneumatic tools).
Basically they take a punch and hammer and whack at the metal a lot until it gives it the textured look.
Different size/shape tips on the punches give different texturing.

 

[bigmike45]

Good Afternoon,
Some time ago I became very interested in grip stippling as an option to checkering or nothing at all. I have seen several guns done this way especially a method called texturing on a Browning High Power reworked by Mr. Yost. It is without a shadow of a doubt the best I have ever seen.
I decided to do a little experimentation on one of my other guns, before tackling the BHP. I had an old metal scribe, used when I was doing my layout, in a machine shop. You know, the ones with the carbide tip. Well I sharpened the tip and took it and a small ball peen hammer to the back of my stainless CZ75B, since it too has slick front and rear grip straps. 3 hours and about 50,000 whacks later, here is what I have to show for my efforts. It feels great in my hand and with a little cleaning up will be about as perfect as I need. Next... the front grip strap. It is about twice as wide and will take about twice as long.....I think I am going to look for some of the stippling punches, with the multi point faces. One strike will yeild 6-8 stipples instead of only one.

tex

 

[bigmike45]

Well I finished the front grip strap and decided to also stipple the lower part of the trigger guard. I took the advice of another poster who uses a file to make the stippling. I have a 12" round bastard and half round bastard. Every time I strike the surface with them they cover about a 1/8" square patch with stipples. Instead of 3 hours and 50,000 hammer strikes, this took about an hour with about 5,000 strikes....and this surface is wider and I also did the lower part of the trigger guard. I even went back to the rear grip strap and went over it a couple of hundred times to get it to match the front. It really turned out great. Feels like skateboard tape, without the problems of the tape wearing or coming off.

 

[Geno]

I am not 12" tall...I'm 5'9", and I'm not round! The rest sounds pretty accurate. Funny thing is I don't remember doing this, or anyone pounding me 5,000 times. No wonder I feel so beat-up!

Dang that looks good! You need to get some business cards and hang a shingle and start charging for this service. It looks seriously professional!

Doc2005

 

[bigmike45]

I am not 12" tall...I'm 5'9", and I'm not round! The rest sounds pretty accurate. Funny thing is I don't remember doing this, or anyone pounding me 5,000 times. No wonder I feel so beat-up!

Dang that looks good! You need to get some business cards and hang a shingle and start charging for this service. It looks seriously professional!

Doc2005

Doc2005,

Thank you for the kind words. I try very hard to make it look good. I worked in a machine shop for many years while paying my way through colege. I am very comfortable working with metal. This is the first time I have done anything like this though. The metal working I am used to is usually a little more precise.

bigmike45

 

[Jim Watson]

Good work. The backstrap done with punch looks ok. The frontstrap done with file looks great.

Might be best to beat on some scrap iron or inch round bar to learn the technique before going after a gun with punch or file.

 

[Fumbler]

Just a note...
Some people make the distinction between stippling and "matting."
Matting is like stipple in technique, but with files like you have done.
Matting isn't as aggressively textured as stippling is.

Good workon the gun

 

[bigmike45]

Fumbler,

Thank you, I was wondering if it would still be considered stippling or something else, like texturing or matting. I do know one thing....I like it. I have a high end 1911 that has very fine checkering in the grip frame face and I prefer this much more. I kind of wish the checkering was not there and I would "matte" that gun as well. I would consider the picture I started this thread with, the hard chromed Hi Power by Yost, to be texturing,because of the pattern used. I really like that one as well. I have not decided what I will do with my BHP as of yet. I decided to use my stainless CZ75B as a test bed, especially since I do not have to have it refinished, like a blued gun.

bigmike45

 

[Jim Watson]

I have a couple of guns with checkered frontstraps. They were too sharp for my desk engineer's hands so I had the diamonds flattened. I let my FLG do it because he is very good with a fine flat file. He took the diamonds down about 1/3. The grooves and edges of the flat tops still give plenty of traction without grating skin.

 

[Sunray]

"...checkered frontstraps...too sharp..." Yep. Knew a guy who did extremely nice work, but it was like grabbing a porcupine.
Stippling can be done with a common nail too. Takes a lot of patience though. Factory stippling is done with a machine.

 

[pete f]

you can also tape every thing off with vinyl tape and use carbide or ceramic blasting media to get a softer version;

In College i had a friend who was doing fine art with flat steel and using tools to make like old wood carvings. I made her a few punches by annealing down centerpunches and the like, and then making patterns with files and scribers, and then hardening them up again, I Think the same thing could be done to make a stippling punch

 

[BigJon]

Wish I could find a detailed description of how the very matting shown in the initial photos is done. I've tried, and as far as folks seem to explain the process is just to the point of "rat-tail file/mill b file and a hammer," but no further guidance.

 

[brickeyee]

"Knew a guy who did extremely nice work, but it was like grabbing a porcupine."

Then polish off the tips to your liking.
Finer checkering tends to not be as abrasive as coarse stuff also.

I never liked stippling or matting.
I think both look sloppy on a finely crafted weapon.

 

[LeoC]

I'm also wondering what the exact technique is for using the files to create the matted texture. Is the file placed on the front/rear strap and whacked directly with a hammer?

 

[bigmike45]

On my gun, around the borders or edges I held the file about 1/8" above the surface and did just that.....struck it with a plastic lead shot filled mallet. That way I could control where the indentations were made. The round file has the cutting teeth all the way out to the end and this helped me be very precise in my placement. Over the larger surface areas I used the file only, striking the frame repeatedly, from about 2-3" off the metal, until all areas were filled in evenly. I would strike the surface from different angles as well.

Here are the files I used.



bigmike45

 

[BigJon]

Mike. I may have the answer . . . dunno, but sounds plausible. I have tried the rat-tail file thing and couldn't duplicate this. Have been told that the technique to achieve the result shown in your photo, which is quite different an effect than with stippling, etc., is done with an electric engraving pencil.

Best,
Jon

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Okay, bigmike's first photo (Browning Hi-Power) is Yost-performed stippling of the highest quality. It's done with specialized punch(s?), hammer, patience & the skill that only experience can provide. Novak, Cylinder & Slide, and only a few other legendary shops can also provide this level of craftsmanship.

bigmike's second photo (CZ 75, backstrap) is of his own first effort with punch & hammer. It's functionally effective but not too "artistic". Likely as good as Ted Host's first effort...certainly better than mine.

The third of bigmike's photos (CZ 75, frontstrap & trigger guard) is what REALLY interests me. Mike, it's absolutely beautiful. You've developed (or, at least, skillfully swiped) a technique that gives an artistic, consistant texture WITHOUT requiring 15 years of practice or 10 hours of painstaking anguish & safe-cracker attention. AND, if that's not enough, you were able to cover/correct the punch & hammer effort on the frontstrap as well. Congrats on a job Well Done!

Thanks for the file photo & technique explaination. I've stippled with an air turbine (500,000 rpm) and it wasn't as nice as yours! You got any other friendly guidance before I beat my pistol frame with 12" bastard files? Thanks!

 

[bigmike45]

Ghost Tracker,
The hardest part was the edges, trying to make sure I went to the edge line but not over. Basically that took using the round file with a hard plastic lead shot filled mallet. I tried to keep the end of the file as close as I could to the edge line, so I had control of where the metal was being deformed. Once I completed the edge line, I just basically wrapped the half round file with masking tape to create a handle of sorts, around the end opposite the files tail. I then started striking the surface at 45% angles to the edge line, basically filling in the rest. As far as how hard I struck the surface....just enough to get the desired effect. To prevent any frame distortion I used my router and formed a piece of oak to fit the mag channel and pushed it into place. I would strike the length of the grip frame up one side and then back down the opposite side, filling in equally from the outside, along the edge line, to the center. Once complete, I then reversed and went back over the frame again in the opposite pattern, tilting the file in the opposite 45% direction. This gives the surface a 100grit sandpaper feel. Not too agressive and not too slick. I hope this helps you understand what was involved.

Thank you very much for the compliments. It turned out much better than I ever expected. The next gun to do this to will be my Browning Hi Power. Afterward I plan to send it to Virgil Tripp to have it hard chromed to look like the original picture. I know that my work will never be on the same level as Mr. Yost, but I really enjoy creating that is more functional, at least for me. He is definately my inspiration. I would just love to sit by his side, slightly behind, of course and watch his mastery and skill at work. He woud never have to utter a single word. I could pick up what I need just by watching his technique.

bigmike

 

[BigJon]

GhostTracker wrote, "bigmike's first photo (Browning Hi-Power) is Yost-performed stippling of the highest quality. It's done with specialized punch(s?), hammer, patience & the skill that only experience can provide."

Are you sure? Really asking - because as I said, I'm having a hard time figuring this out. For instance, if you look at the first photo, you'll see that there are definite patterns throughout the work. Second, the pattern consists of many tiny grooves, not softened . . . well . . . holes (for lack of a better description). Those suggest, at least to my rookie eyes, that it was done with something other than stippling punches which do not leave definite patters and which create lots of little push ups rather than grooves. Accordingly, am I wrong that a closer observation of the pattern suggests that this was done either a section at a time with struck files, and then filled in around the borders and directly under the trigger guard with an engraver? Take a look especially at the borders - it looks like someone did the main body of work and then blended it at the edges by drawing each groove in with a shallow engraver. Dunno. ???

Mike - Yep, yours looks a lot what I got when i used the rat-tail file approach. Looks good!!! (Certainly looks better than mine turned out!)

 

[AZ_Rebel]

Ted Yost is an extremely talented gunsmith and it would be difficult to duplicate his excellent work. However, stippling is not hard to learn and it is very fast when done properly. Years ago I watched Austin Behlert stipple a mainspring housing for a custom 1911 his shop was building for me. He used a center punch with the tip ground with flats - like the bottom of a diamond. He held the punch about 1/8" above the work and tapped it with a small hammer - moving the punch continually. The punch just rebounded of the work on every stroke and he did the whole housing in less than 10 minutes.
Practice on some scrap steel and make sure the work is held solid in a vise.
Be very careful if you are doing the front strap on a Hi-Power... the metal is quite thin and its easy to punch through or dent it with a punch.

 

[BigJon]

Yep, he is most talented. Got the chance to meet him at the Shot Show this year, and he graciously put up with my fan antics. He also had with him, oh, one or two "okay-looking" guns he'd built. He wouldn't let me hold 'em for long though - something about the slobber damaging the finish or something to that effect.

Best,
Jon

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Be very careful if you are doing the front strap on a Hi-Power... the metal is quite thin and its easy to punch through or dent it with a punch.

Well then a CZ must be a better handgun than a Hi-Power 'cause bigmike sez' you can beat THEM with a 12" file!

(You're right with that reminder. A BHP frontstrap is surprisingly "tender")

 

[bigmike45]

You are correct Ghost Tracker. The radius' (corners) of the front gripframe strap, of the CZ75B is a tad thicker. I did not measure it but judging with the naked eye, I would say around .025-.035 thicker. I also believe the stainless metal is a bit harder. The reason I say this is because I bought a very well made engraver with a carbide engraving tip. Even at the max vibration, I could barely get it to scratch the surface of the stainless grip frame, but I could make a very good test pattern on the hard flat hammer surface of my machinist's vise. I actually think I could reproduce the pattern on Mr. Yosts gun, or at least be very close, with a bunch of trial & error. Of course that would have to be on scrap metal, and not on the guns frame, until I was completely comfortable with the process. If not I could always go back to the files and just whack away .

AZ REBEL,

That bouncing the punch about 1/8" off the surface and keeping the punch moving is exactly how I did the back grip frame strap. My wife came in and watched a little of that work. She said it sounded like a neurotic woodpecker on a metal building. To me it was more difficult to do it that way, but it did raise a much higher stipple, making it feel more like 20lpi checkering. I think I prefer the less agressive texturing that can be accomplished with the files and the pattern is much easier to replicate than with the punch, or in my case the carbide tipped scribe.

bigmike

 

[AZ_Rebel]

"...but it did raise a much higher stipple, making it feel more like 20lpi checkering. I think I prefer the less agressive texturing..."

The "aggresiveness" is directly related to the point geometry of the punch used. If you grind the point "flatter" (i.e. less pointy) the stippling will be more shallow. This is where experimenting on scrap steel will be usefull. Also, using a lighter hammer will affect the depth of the stipple.

And yes Ghost Tracker... a CZ is a better gun than a Hi-Power (IMO)... I lived in Canada and we saw Hi-Powers quite a bit... never did like them much. Got an early CZ75 and loved it.