The 1000 yd question

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jbech123

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I'm talking target shooting/maybe varmint...not hunting big game.
Lots of threads around talking about the .223 at 1000, can definitely be done but you need a very heavy bullet, special twist, and some people complain of overpressure issues.
Many advise to go to a wildcat like a 6.5/284 etc...certainly a viable option.
Other camps say go .308 but then more recoil etc...
I realize for the service rifle type competitions the options get limited, but for a guy who wants to punch paper from 600-1000 for fun, and doesn't want a wildcat, it seems like the 243 would be an obvious choice. Plenty of ammo options, light recoil, much more umph for longer range than a .223, less recoil than a 308. Wondering why this isn't mentioned more?
 
6mm bullets have become quite popular for LR competition. The only downside in regards to the .243 Win. is, you need a slightly faster than factory twist rate barrel to shoot the heavy, high BC bullets, and barrel life is short.

Don
 
I think I read somewhere that .280 Remington is what some long range shooters are going to over the 308. May have been an old article though, and I don't know much on the subject.

Edit: after reading that page, I think it was the .260 Rem, and that was the page I got it from ;).
 
.280 Remington is the "7mm-06", and is comparable to but has a little less powder space than 7mm Remington Magnum. For the .30-06 case, the 280 or 280 Ackley is a great choice (it's less overbore than 6.5-06).

In the 308 case size, you might be thinking of .260 Remington, which is a .308 necked down to 6.5 mm, see:


D100_9642_img.jpg
article | The Case for .260 Remington: A Better Cartridge For Practical Long-Range Shooting extwh3.png
 
.280 Remington is the "7mm-06", and is comparable to but has a little less powder space than 7mm Remington Magnum. For the .30-06 case, the 280 or 280 Ackley is a great choice (it's less overbore than 6.5-06).

In the 308 case size, you might be thinking of .260 Remington, which is a .308 necked down to 6.5 mm, see:
Click to expand...

I always thought the 280 Rem was a twin of the 270 Win.
 
Heavier bullets & higher ballistic coefficients - THAT'S the key at 1000 yds.

The .223 is very light (even with heavy-for-caliber bullets like 80gr.) and will obviously get tossed around in any wind that is blowing. The .243 is better because they shoot the 95gr.-105gr. bullets which have extremely high ballistic coefficients and therefore fly flater and drift less in the wind. Other 6mm cartridges like the 6mm Norma (same as the 6 BR, 6mmBR, 6 Norma BR just different names) is becoming the top cartridge in the 300m - 600m compititions and has been used in the 1000yd. comp., also. The 6.5x284 is very popular but burns up barrels a little faster.

The hardest thing about very long range (1000yd) shooting is doping the wind. People have to practice a long time to be able to keep one eye on all of the indicaters like tall grass, mirage waves, leaves and flags and then utilize all of the wind drift data that's available for their bullet at the velocity it's being shot at. That's doping the wind. It's obviously easier to put a bullet into the black if your bullet drifts 30" @1000 yds with a given wind than if it drifts 52". THAT"S why it's better to shoot heavier bullets with higher ballistic coefficients.
 
jkingrph : the .280 Remington fills the narrow gap between the .30-06 and the .270 Win.

The .280Rem uses a .284 dia. bullet and prefers something around 160gr. whereas the .270Win. uses a .277 dia. bullet and really likes the 130gr. & 140gr. bullets.

Both are excellent hunting rounds & Zak is correct about the parent cartridge. Both are necked down .30-06 Springfield cartridges.
 
I got a question, is it possible to be accurate at that distance with a semi auto, or is bolt action what is normally used?
 
The reason little is said about the 243 for long range is that factory ammo loaded with 115gr bullets is not available. To get all the 243 has to offer for 1K shooting the 115 is the bullet to shoot.

The 243 loaded with DTAC or Berger 115s are in wide use in NRA highpower. Low recoil, high BC and good wind drift numbers make this a good round for 1K shooting. It still will not quite keep up with a 6.5x284. The barrel life of the two are about the same. The Bergers tend to come apart over 3000fps. I've seen them blow up in a puff of grey smoke not making the target.

I wouldn't call the 6.5x284 a wildcat. There are three companies making brass and Black Hills loads ammo for it.
 
The simple solution is the 6.5x55, in a modern action. But practically any 6.5 will do. And more fun than lobbing a 308 at the target.
 
The popularity of the 6.5, as well as the 6mm has more to do with the availability of excellent high BC bullets than anything else. As already noted, you are going to want faster than normal twists to shoot those high BC and VLD bullets that really sail.

308 will perform very well at 1000, and recoil doesn't have to be excessive. Even with a relatively skow 1:12 twist, the 155 Lapua Scenar will get to 1000 with under 38 MOA of elevation. In factory loads, the 175 SMK with it's 0.5 BC seems to be the round of choice.

In 6mm, take a look at the Berger 115 VLD. The BC is near 0.600, but it requires a 1:7 twist. In 6.5, the 139 Lapua Scenar with a BC of 0.615 is an excellent choice, again, best served with a faster twist: 1:8 or 1:8.5 being typical.
 
A guy here got in on the ground floor with a pretty stock .243 and 105 gr A-max.
Another has a full house custom 6mm Remington that is a super nice long range rifle.
I have read of good shooting with the little 6 BR, which gives up some velocity and pays back in longer barrel life.

I don't know where you are on "ammo selection", most target shooters handload.
Hornady thinks they can sell 6.5 Creedmoor factory match, but it won't be cheap.
 
i've been pleased so far with my results using a 6mmXC at 1000, but i wouldn't say it's an optimum choice
 
The popularity of the 6.5, as well as the 6mm has more to do with the availability of excellent high BC bullets than anything else.
Click to expand...

And what else matters?

The price of Lapua 6.5x47 factory ammo isn't cheap either. Probably like the 6.5 Creedmore.
 
The price of Lapua brass is brutal. I just bought 100 pieces of 6.5 Grendel Lapua and after shopping around, the best price I could find from someone who actually had some in stock was $91/100. Lots of places had it for less, but all backordered.

On the plus side, lapua brass is about the nicest I've ever seen.

Midway is advertising 6.5x47 ammo (coming soon) at around $49 per 20. Creedmoor is half that.
 
Does anyone shoot factory ammo out at 1000 yards?

The 6.5x55 is a blast to shoot, easy to pick up factory ammo if you don't reload, and is very accurate, though I've never shot it at 1000 yards. I thought this was the best-shooting gun I would ever shoot, until I got my 6.5x284. Search over. :)
 
wow lots of good advice thanks guys.

The reason little is said about the 243 for long range is that factory ammo loaded with 115gr bullets is not available. To get all the 243 has to offer for 1K shooting the 115 is the bullet to shoot.
Click to expand...

I understand that is the optimal bullet, but I'd think there are many 243 choices that would be superior to anything in 223, not to mention the 243 would push the same weight bullet significantly faster.
 
Zak - I was reading your article on "Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting" and was curious as to your choice of preferred actions... Is there something inherently wrong about the CZ-550 actions, or the Nesika actions?

Just looking for your opinion...
 
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