The 9mm NATO vs 9mm FMJ question

[gmh1013]

Today I shot 2 mags of each through my SP2022 ad the NATO was about 25 fps faster than the 115gr WWB stuff
So it is a slightly hotter load than standard.
I love the stuff as practice ammo and never have had any problems with it.

 

[NG VI]

Where's the question?

The NATO spec 9mm is definitely warmer than your average range fodder 115 FMJ, and WWB isn't loaded all that warm to begin with. Did you have a chrono with you? I've heard differing speed numbers for the NATO loads, was wondering how yours did.

Either way the NATO 9mm is a pretty good practice round, it's not a light range-type load so it feels more like a fully loaded defensive round.

 

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I've noticed the NATO round was indeed hotter, my Astra was quite a bit snappier using the NATO marked box. But then again it is snappy with Remington UMC as well. Coincidence?

 

[bigfatdave]

Coincidence?

unknown unless you have bullet weights and REAL (not advertised) velocities for both rounds.
While a qualitative comparison of recoil between two loads in the same gun might be interesting, without quantitative data it doesn't really mean much.

 

[Weedy]

Remember that's an extra 25 fps with a 124 grain bullet, too, as opposed to the 115 grain WWB.

 

[usp9]

NATO is my favorite practice ammo. Feels and shoots much like my carry ammo but much, much cheaper.

 

[Rock185]

I have chronographed quite a bit of 9MM in a number of different guns over the last 30 years or so and do have some real velocities recorded. And yes, NATO is generally a little warmer than regular U.S. commercial ammo.

For instance, WWB ( USA9MMVP ) 115 grain averages 1140fps in my Kimber Target II with 5" barrel. Winchester NATO ( Q4318 ) 124 grain ball averages 1214fps in the same gun. In the Marlin Carbine with 16" barrel, WWB 115 grain averages 1256fps, while Winchester NATO 124 ball averaged 1296fps. Four inch pistol barrels produce less velocity, but the relationship between NATO and WWB remains the same. BTW, I have chronograped a couple of 9MM revolvers, a S&W and a Ruger, with 3" barrels. I found that the 3" revolvers produce average velocities as high, or higher, that my 4" semi-auto pistols.

I did chronograph some Federal M882, IIRC, NATO ball that gave velocities consistent with U.S. commercial ammo. That's why I said that the NATO 9MM is "generally" a little warmer. The Federal NATO I tested was really pretty wimpy compared to the Winchester NATO.

The Winchester Q4318 NATO has been my favorite factory practice load for years.

 

[rcmodel]

Like 25 FPS is gonna make any differance at all to anything you shoot with it.

rc

 

[Onmilo]

The difference is in the dynamics of the shooting 'feel' not the performance on the target.
NATO ammo uses a heavier bullet as well.
115 WWb is pretty anemic stuff.

 

[jmr40]

Like 25 FPS is gonna make any differance at all to anything you shoot with it.

The NATO ammo I've shot was closer to 50 fps faster, with a heavier bullet. I'd take the heavier bullet even if it were at the same speed.

 

[Okiegunner]

Beretta 92 F

Question...I have an older model 92F, not FS. Is it safe to fire +P, or NATO type ammo with this pistol. Gun is all metal with no plastic parts?

 

[mburmaster]

Nato is not considered +P, or rated more than standard ammo ymmv

 

[NG VI]

Beretta, Glock, and CZ pistols are all designed with the somewhat warmer loaded standard of European 9mm, they thrive on +P. Euro standards aren't really any different from ours, they just seem to load their everyday ammunition to potential more often than our companies do with general range ammo.

 

[Onmilo]

If the M9 Beretta handles NATO ammo day in and day out, why would you think your civilian M92FS won't do the same? It will.

 

[Telekinesis]

If the M9 Beretta handles NATO ammo day in and day out, why would you think your civilian M92FS won't do the same?

He's asking about the 92F not the 92FS which is the M9. IIRC, in testing the military had a problem with premature slide cracking on the 92F, so they talked with Beretta and got them to beef up (or otherwise re-engineer) the slide which created the current M9/92FS.

Keep in mind that these slide problems were not from normal use, but were found on guns which were used in tests which essentially said "fire this gun until it breaks, figure out what happened, tell the manufacturer to fix it. repeat" until they hit some arbitrary round count.

Okiegunner, your 92F should be fine with both NATO and +P rounds for general use. NG VI had a good explanation. If you use the gun for high round count shooting like competitions, just keep an eye on the parts like you should be doing anyway and everything will be fine.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I was given some w/w Nato ammo several decades ago. It was quite mild compared to some green box Italian ammo that I bought at my lgs.

 

[Okiegunner]

+P NATO Round

Telikensis: You are absolutely correct. I did refer to F model as oppossed to an FS. In my opinion the failure by early Beretta F models was probably more due metalurgy than anything else.

However...my Centurion is an F model, produced after the metalurgy problems were corrected (in my opinion). Once again, however, it is still an F model, not FS.

It seems to chamber and fire everything I can feed it...BUT, better safe than sorry. Just wanted others feedback on this pistol. All in all, this is one of my favorites. Finish is second to none.

Thanks much. And Telikenisis, thank you much.

 

[Onmilo]

I have always held the opinion that the slide break issue was and still is more hype than reality.
Yes I know, some failed, a very, VERY small number of pistols in the grand scheme of things.
The FS adds a safety measure to prevent the slide from seperating and hitting the shooter in the event of a failure, I know of no metallurgical upgrades between the two models.

What is interesting in the whole 92 M9 debate is that the Italian military and police still use many 92S pistols, some probably dating back to the late 1970s and they use hot Italian and european made ammunition in the guns.
I used a 96 F to test .40 caliber ammo and the loads I was shootiung should have fractured the slide if the gun was faulty, they did not do so.

If you are really sweating shooting ammo more powerful than wimp load WWB white box in your Beretta Model 92 whatever, I would seriously suggest you choose another brand of handgun.

 

[starbuck]

He's asking about the 92F not the 92FS which is the M9

There were a LOT of "F" spec M9s made.

 

[PRM]

Quote:

Like 25 FPS is gonna make any differance at all to anything you shoot with it.

The NATO ammo I've shot was closer to 50 fps faster, with a heavier bullet. I'd take the heavier bullet even if it were at the same speed.

Like 50 FPS is gonna make any difference at all to anything you shoot with it.

1100 FPS + or - 50 FPS with FMJ ~ we are talking handgun rounds.

 

[jmr40]

After looking at my chronograph records the difference is even greater than I thought. The common 115 gr bullets I've fired through various 9mm's run from 1100-1150 fps.

The NATO marked loads I've fired are a 124 gr bullet that ran from 1200-1250 fps. So depending on the individual load or gun used it ranged from 50-150 fps faster and with a heavier bullet. I've also found the 124 gr bullets at any speed shoot more accurately in my guns. My first choice is a quality 124 gr hollowpoint @ around 1250 fps. but would choose the NATO round any day over the less accurate, slower, lighter 115 gr loading.

 

[Ben86]

NATO 9mm is a little bit hotter than usual 124 grain fmj. Not much so however. Most chrono results I've seen puts it around 1160-1180. I can just barely make out the difference in recoil over normal range ammo. It still makes quality target or reserve ammo though.

 

[Sapper771]

Last box of 9mm NATO that I shot through my G17 was horribly inconsistent as far as velocities are concerned. All were running from 1200fps to 1286fps. Warm stuff. Haven't had a chance to shoot anymore yet. It seems that people around here think its special enough to charge $20 a box for.

 

[gmh1013]

I get the Nato 9mm for 13-14 bucks a box....the last batch i bought was
avg 1190-1218fps through my SIG SP 2022 with 3.9 inch barrel
The Taurus PT917 was a 4-6fps faster than the SIG.....quess the slight barrel dif was the reason.
Its all I buy for practice ammo....if I was shooting a 92 with 5inch barrel it would hit pretty hard for cheap ammo....I bought 500 rounds today....its superior to WWB 115gr

 

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

In the same gun, my Astra, WWB is a softer shooting load than the NATO load. Yeah, the NATO weighs 9 grains heavier, but I experienced quite a lively muzzle-blast out of the pistol with the NATO compared to WWB. With Remington UMC, I believe they are 115 grains as well, I have a similar muzzle-blast as the NATO and I do get some muzzle-flash, even in broad-daylight.