The Aftermath.

[Carl Levitian]

Of course, surviving a rude encounter is the most important thing to do at the moment. But in any encounter, especially when a weapon of some type is used, there's always the aftermath.

I see a lot of home made weapons posts, home made clubs, knives, and so on. Before you have any encounter with those of the lawless type, you have to give some thought as to how what you use will stand up to scrutiny.

I've always thought that I should not carry anything that can't be explained away in a day to day real life world, and how if fits in with day to day life. I've looked at everything in the context of 'how would this look to a jury, if I really ruined somebody's day with it?'.

I ended up in court once, several years ago, when an off leash pit bull attacked our Welsh Corgi in a park where the better half and I were taking a walk. Since it was a wooded park, with hiking trails, I had my hornbean staff instead of my usual walking stick. I ended up using the staff like a sledgehammer to bash the attacking dog over the head. To make a long story short, the pit bull was killed, and the owner, who then attacked me for hitting his dog, got the staff used on him. The park police charged him with having a vicious dog off leash, and attempted assault. The police didn't look twice at my hiking staff, except to remark it was a nice stick. It fit the surroundings and activity.

When the pit bull owner tried to sue me in civil court after getting zero satisfaction in criminal court, the judge tossed his case out on the grounds that I was not using a "prepared weapon" and was defending myself and my dog with what was at hand. This made a deep impression on me, the phrase "Prepared weapon". I can only wonder if I would have got off so easy if I had a pick ax handle with a taped grip or some other home made weapon, let alone some cane that has the company owner on Internet video bashing up cinder blocks with it.

Year before last, I had a run in at a local bagel and sandwich shop. I defended myself by opening a humble Opinel number 8 folder, and making it very clear that Yeah, he could get me, but he's going to die doing it. The police showed up, figured out from witnesses what was going on, and the cop that had my Opinel and was looking at it with curiosity, told me to put it back in my pocket. It seems like innocent first impressions are everything. I can only wonder if he would have been so generous to me if I had some wicked looking tacticool knife.

It's a free country, carry what you want, but I wonder if it all comes down in the end to this; how do you feel about what you are going to carry, being held up in front of a civil suit jury, because it really did a number on some lowlife and his family got an ambulance chasing slick lawyer to sue you. Even though you did nothing wrong, and the police gave you a pat on the back, they will claim the poor victim was in the church choir as a child, was a good boy to his grandma, and all kinds of bull hockey. But they will center on what you used to paint you in a bad light. So the loaded clubs, spiky stabbers, and mall ninja devises like polymer knuckles and jaw jackers and saps, can be more trouble in the end than they are worth. Any quick search on the Internet can turn up some bad news for your defense. Can a dedicated kuboton do that more damage than an AA minimag? Or the latest tactical pen hurt more than a Cross pen shoved into a mastoid gland?

It's not the DA's you have to be wary of, it's the lawyers. Be thoughtful on what you carry, and how it will look to 12 lemming like jurors.

Carl.

 

[Claude Clay]

Carl--you are preaching to the already converted

today more than i can ever remember--perception trumps reality
one can make choices based on 'the letter of the law' or the likely way LEO's and the courts may view it or
the path of least resistance ( and likely least expense).

years gone past some women wore hats sothey had a place for their hat-pin
a women from the inner-city told that she keeps a can of oven cleaner in her car. it could have fallen out of her grocery bag
and just happened to be on the seat when they tried to open her car door...

yours is a very nice write up. thank you.

 

[dayhiker]

Excellent post, and one to be heeded. In my short time as a member here,as well as a long time lurking, I have noticed a certain..should I say... Walter Mitty tendency in regards to defending ones self.

It always pays to look ahead at what happens after the fact. Sure, being alive at the end of the day is our ultimate goal. But, staying out of jail should be just as important. Surviving on the street is a cake-walk compared to prison.From what I hear they don't let you carry firearms or non-firearm weapons to defend yourself there.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Once again, I see the importance of talking to the police, not to incriminate yourself, but to provide your testimony as a witness, and to provide your side of the story, after all, I'm sure the owner of the 'poor defenseless' dead dog, was taking a saint for a walk when that mean corgi just jump out and attacked it.

the tactical version, well, isn't the REAL thing just as effective and cost less, both up front and in court.

 

[JShirley]

Carl, that's an excellent example. I'd love to look over the court notes, if you'll PM me the case # and location.

 

[hso]

Good illustration.

It is also usually needless to create some fantasy weapon from a Mad Max film. What we use from day to day we become familiar with. Eventually we become so familiar with those tools they become second nature to us. When it comes time to put them to the additional use of self defense those tools can be very effective if we've also put some thought into their use for SD as well as their day in, day out use.

No need for goofy adaptations when the tool at hand and a little thought and preparation are effective.

 

[glistam]

I think it's a certain kind of person that seems to gravitate towards unnecessary purpose-made weaponry, especially DIY items that really don't do anything more than many everyday objects. A few I brought the subject up with fall right into what I predicted: Male 13-17. Too young for anyone to sell them manufactured weapons, but old enough to be in that prime phase of growth were testosterone rules reason and everything social feels 10 times worse than it actually is.

Regardless of age or other factors, I'm just saying there is a common thread. Screw personal safety, they want power. And what amuses me is many of these DIY implements of destruction fail this most basic of equations:

Where X = implement, is this statement true? If not, why risk the legal consequences.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I remember reading Carls Bagel Store Story a few years back. As he said the more every day something looks the better you are. That is why I carry either a Gator or Buck 110 plus a varity of 1-6 bladed pocket knives. I carry various canes thanks to a bum right ankle that like the weather seems to give out at the least opportune times. Use the Search and read Carls story and heed his advice it will keep you out of Lock up and Lawyer out of your pocketbook.

 

[bikerdoc]

The thing I like to impress upon the DIY types is that effort/time would be better spent on training with every day at hand stuff. I spent some time every week with an cool, old Oriental master who taylors my class to me, using cane, knife, waterbottle, rolled up magazine, etc
We train in defense and offense. Gets back to the basics of mindset, skill set, tool set, which most of these guys dont get.

 

[Ole Coot]

Great example! I carry a pistol, assisted opener and walking stick. I prefer it to a cane with a crook. I don't need it for assistance, merely a "go anywhere" weapon that I have trained with for several years. I have no hesitation using a handgun or knife yet the walking stick or cane will be more than enough in most situations. If my wife happened to be with me and my situational awareness dictated I would probably have used my pistol against a pit bull.

 

[Carl Levitian]

"What we use from day to day we become familiar with. Eventually we become so familiar with those tools they become second nature to us. When it comes time to put them to the additional use of self defense those tools can be very effective if we've also put some thought into their use for SD as well as their day in, day out use. "


I think that was the idea behind the martial arts weapons from Asia. The rice sickle, the walking staff, the rice flail, all were items that the peasants were handling every day of their life. They were familiar with the feel, the way they responded in their hand when swung, not to mention nobody gave it a seconds thought for a peasant to be walking down the road with a staff. I think it was the same in middle ages Europe with the quarter staff. I recall reading someplace, that in the old days it was death on the spot for a peasant to be caught with a knights weapon like a sword. It may have been the same in Japan, for a lowly rice farmer to be caught with a Samurai's weapon. So, human resourcefulness got used.

Same thing today, I find objects that I use all the time, everyday, to be second nature. My Irish blackthorn stick is always with me, as is my AA minimag LED. The mag rides in a nylon sheath on my right hip, and a couple times a day I'm reaching back for it. Working on fixing the clothes dryer, or looking for something on the shelves in the basement to shine it back at the back of the shelf where it's not too well lit in spite of the overhead lite. Looking under the seat of the car for something. It's become a second nature to reach back and palm out my minimag.

Since I was given a medical discharge from the army in 1971 for a serious injury on active duty, I've carried a cane. It's more than second nature for me to have a walking stick right there in my hand. It's come in handy a time or two, and it's always there. Even goes right through TSA security when Karen and I fly someplace. As does the minimag.

Common objects, that are used every day for mundane stuff, is just as good as the highly hyped 'special' objects that 99% of their use is for the maker/seller to get your money out of your wallet and into theirs. I will never forget the nice old white haired lady, sitting in a church pew writing, and was accosted by a homeless man. He was easy to find, all the cops had to do was find the guy walking down the street with bloody pockmarks in his face. The little old lady turned into a wildcat with a plastic stick pen, and darn near took out one of his eyes. Turns out, she was some kind of retired Federal officer of some sort.

Everyday objects. With a little thought and drill, they could be all you need.

Carl.