N555
Member
No argument there.Mr. Irving sounds like an idiot.
No argument there.Mr. Irving sounds like an idiot.
I wouldn't hang my hat on that........No structuring case will stand on its own
No jury or juror will ask that because its not about "your own money" and it certainly isn't illegal to withdraw your own $$$$. It's because "structuring" deposits or withdrawals specifically to avoid federal cash transaction reports is a federal crime. It doesn't matter if its your own $$$, or your company's. The prosecutor will make it darn clear why its a violation of federal law.because any jury is going to be like "how is it illegal to take your own money out of the bank",
Oh please.and begs questions like "why is this guy potentially being sentenced like he went in there with a gun and robbed it if it's his money".....
OMG I remember the controversy when that book came out. As I recall, they wanted librarians to track and record the names of everyone who checked it out. I'm afraid to look for a copy to this very day for fear I'll wind up on a list."The Anarchist Cookbook" was reported to be first published in 1971 and if it did not have plans to make the "Lighting Link" it was in one of the very early revisions.
OMG I remember the controversy when that book came out. As I recall, they wanted librarians to track and record the names of everyone who checked it out. I'm afraid to look for a copy to this very day for fear I'll wind up on a list.
My bad, reread and I didn't make that as clear as I should have.
Mr Irving tried to take out a fairly large sum of money from the bank he normally uses. The bank manager lady told him they don't have that much money on hand. They the 2 of them exchanged words. Mr Irving took his $10,000 from that bank, then proceeded to go to 4 or 5 other bank branches withdrawing $10,000 from each of those. All of it was his money. The prosecution is saying that's the structuring charge...
Tough to get around
It's the total withdrawal that banks look at. For example, a person might withdraw $7,000 from one bank branch, then drive to another branch to withdraw $3,000 the same day. Because the funds were taken the same day, a report is triggered.
Banks have dealt with the BSA long enough to know every trick in the books. The BSA requires banks to report any suspicious activity. Let's say someone withdraws $9,999 to stay below the $10,000 threshold. Banks may report that. If someone were to come into the bank every day or two to withdraw $2,000, that could also be identified as suspicious.
How to withdraw a large sum
If you're not doing anything wrong, there's no reason to worry about a standard report winding its way to FinCen. However, if you prefer to avoid such a report, there are plenty of other ways to access your funds. Because the trigger applies to cash withdrawals, you can always:
- Write an old-fashioned check for purchases over $10,000.
- Use a credit card to charge a purchase, then pay the card off before the end of the billing cycle.
- Arrange for a bank transfer. In the case of buying a classic car, you could have money transferred from your bank account to the seller.
It at least ambiguous, now. I didn't think that's law means but they're charging the guy. Maybe we are entering a new era in law enforcement. If the atf can say anything is a machine gun if it pews fast enough, why not apply that logic to everything else?Looks to me like each of those should have been reported. And even if he drove to 10 branches, taking out $1000 at each, that would have triggered a report as the total would be 10k.
Not sure how one could say he was trying to “get away” with something when each and every transaction were reportable amounts themselves, before being combined…?
You said the guy was an idiot and then assume he knew about all these gotcha laws? Which is it?I wouldn't hang my hat on that.
The feds sure as heck win convictions on structuring cases. Even when the $$$ involved are being deposited: https://www.fincen.gov/resources/la...-leads-structuring-conviction-mortgage-broker
No jury or juror will ask that because its not about "your own money" and it certainly isn't illegal to withdraw your own $$$$. It's because "structuring" deposits or withdrawals specifically to avoid federal cash transaction reports is a federal crime. It doesn't matter if its your own $$$, or your company's. The prosecutor will make it darn clear why its a violation of federal law.
Oh please.
If found guilty, he'll be sentenced because he violated federal law and damn well knew what he was doing.
It's not a "which is it?" question.You said the guy was an idiot and then assume he knew about all these gotcha laws? Which is it?
Again, taking your own money out of the bank is not a felony. Never has been. To quote Walter Sobchak: "Smokey this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."......... Prior to that I had no idea just taking your own money out of a bank to make a perfectly legal purchase could a felony.
As luck would have it, an hour ago I had a federal agent come to pick up a gun transfer. (He's not FBI, but is involved in investigation of banking and financial crimes)N555 said: ↑
.......No structuring case will stand on its own
Some good news.As luck would have it, an hour ago I had a federal agent come to pick up a gun transfer. (He's not FBI, but is involved in investigation of banking and financial crimes)
I mentioned the Autokey case and the inclusion of the structuring charges.
He knew about the Autokey 'cause he's a gun guy, and we didn't talk long about the Autokey case itself. But we did talk about "structuring". He said it is rare to charge someone solely for structuring cash withdrawals, and that's because they usually discover the structuring during an investigation of other crimes. For example during an investigation for embezzlement, they may subpoena the accused's bank records and may discover cash withdrawals in amounts or in a frequency designed to avoid the CTR.
Maybe we are entering a new era in law enforcement.
Me too. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.Not getting an argument out of me on that one, I have never seen more “selective enforcement” in my lifetime than we have seen in the last few years.
I wonder about that as well.Every time he withdrew $10,000 cash, a report was generated, so how exactly was he structuring withdrawals to avoid the federal reporting law? .
I wonder about that as well.
The guy in the OP's video wasn't at the trial, instead he's relaying what others claim to have heard at the trial.....and that's a problem.
Here we are discussing hearsay of hearsay.
Why is it bad?Oh no this is bad.
The prosecution spent all of day 5 making the court room watch u tube videos and reading u tube comments about the autokeycard.
Why is that?The case isn't just bad, it's cringe bad.
Only if John Crump is put on trial for impersonating an "investigative journalist".Has there ever been a hung jury where the jurors hung themselves?
It's Ervin, not Irving. Matthew Hoover made the videos about the Autokeycard. He and Kristopher Justin Ervin are the ones indicted for making and selling the AutokeycardIt's double heresy.
Mr Irving didn't make the videos and other random people commented on the video.
Mr Irving didn't make the videos and other random people commented on the video.
Seems like they're using random tube comments to establish intent?
This analysis is as flawed as every other post you've made on this case.It looks like the prosecution appeal the jury worked. Part of their argument was "we already determined it was a machine gun, all the jury needs to do is determine if the defendants distributed them".
This puts us another step closer to anything that could possibly be tuned into a machine gun is a machine gun. Ultimately I think they want to be able to say the AR15 is a machine gun, just because some of them could be tuned in a mg, because it's close enough as is and the classic "because we said so".
This analysis is as flawed as every other post you've made on this case.
Thats because you haven't read the actual transcripts, instead relying on YouTubers who weren't at the trial either. Hearsay of hearsay.
Remember "The case isn't just bad, it's cringe bad." ? When a jury returns a guilty verdict before dark, it makes me wonder about what the actual evidence and testimony really was......and it certainly wasn't relayed by "John Crump, investigative journalist".
Apparently the defense was "cringe bad", because a jury that returns a guilty plea in three hours? Wow. That's almost as fast as Judge Judy.