The "average" gun owner...

[roaddog28]

Most folks don't shoot enough to get really good. I know I don't. Plus, my 55 year old eyes simply don't work as well as they did when they and I were younger. I can't clearly see the bullseye on a 25 yard target.

With any sort of a decent gun I can probably deliver a 4-5" group at 50 feet. That's shooting from standing with a two-handed hold. Once in a great while the sun and the moon and the stars align and the force is with me as seen in the 25 yard target seen below fired from a 6" Python (a notoriously accurate revolver) using full-power Magnum ammo.





I have a Ruger Mk I target 22 pistol made in 1966 that is crazy accurate. I can shoot 2-3" groups with it and I can only imagine what a really competent shooter could do with it. It has the best trigger I have ever felt on any handgun and that seems to be the single biggest factor in printing small groups.





Now that I think about it, my S&W 25-2 seems to want to shoot really well, too. I've only tried it once but I was impressed by how well it grouped. Better than average for me. Might be the weight and long barrel just want to hold steady. Great trigger helps, too.

Like Saxon Pig I am getting close to 60 years old. My eyes have a harder time finding the target now then when I was younger. I shoot at least once a month at a range. I shoot mostly my revolvers. At between 7 to 10 yards if I can get all of them in the black or center shooting double action that's as good as I can shoot. I use the same target as Saxon Pig. I am most accurate with my S&W model 10 4 inch. I can shoot my 357s ok but not consistently in the black. With my semi-autos I am not quite as consistent. I would rate my shooting average to little better for my age. From want your saying, I would rate your shooting much better than average.

Regard,
roaddog28

 

[Cornhusker77]

I can hit a cow at 3 paces pretty regular.
I shoot best with my Glock 32 and a 1911.

 

[David E]

That's good advice. While IPSC and IDPA won't get you as amped as I'd imagine a real firefight would, it does give you practice shooting under pressure. Range work is good for all kinds of things, but it won't get you in the adrenaline zone and training there is important.

You might be surprised at how much adrenaline is produced. I know an ER Doc that's known far and wide for his ability to calmly run a chaotic ER room with several severe trauma cases going on simultaneously. Yet, you can see his hands shaking while waiting for the start signal. Knowing that your friends are watching you, or that you have to nail this stage to beat that "one guy" and you might find your hands shaking a bit, too.

But the thread is about finding out how good you are, or how good "average" is, not what's the best training.

IPSC/IDPA is not training for real life gunfights, but that doesn't mean they are simply useless fun.

What they ARE is a place to accelerate your learning and testing of gunhandling skills and marksmanship under pressure, on demand, while you must think on your feet. No small thing to take to a gunfight.

Add to that the comraderie, the fun and being able to compare yourself to others and there's not much of a down side.

 

[matrdefndr]

How about the "below average" gun owner?

A couple years ago, I wandered over to my local club during the weekend and noticed three real young guys shooting on our 7 yard range. To boot, they gripped their guns rotated 90 degrees from proper and wore clothes that screamed, "we're wannabe gang members."

They spent forty five minutes shooting under the careful eye of our rangemaster and another member who was making sure they were following safety procedures to the letter.

Unfortunately, they left their target boards set up so I got to take them down. There were holes uniformly riddled across the entire 3 ft X 4 ft target sheet. Course, they were shooting something that had no bolt stop and looked like it was born in a sheetmetal shop, so it might have been the gun.

Everyone else I talk to gets frustrated when they can't hold 4-5 inch pistol groups at 25 yards.

 

[cavman]

Very true. If I and most that I shoot with can't hold the 3.36" 10 ring, with a few out in the 5.54" 9 ring during sustained timed and rapid fire, they are upset, at 25 yards with a pistol one handed.

http://www.doppke.com/~jls/bullfaq/sec1.html\

To do this you will be in Expert (or maybe Master class). Master class regularly bemoans the errant "flyer" beyond the 3.36" ring at 25 yards.
Master and High Master class will regularly clean the 3.36" 10 ring, though, for full points. They are the best shooters in the group though. It should be mentioned that they are quibbling over the 1.695" x-ring points!!

Even though, some competitors, who attend matches and presumably train on the side, will be shooting into the 8" and even once and a while the 11" ring at 25 yards one handed.

So, even guys and gals that are shooting as a hobby, as a whole, will still only be hitting the 10 ring with 50%-80% regularity from what I have seen.

But, Gun owners who just "come to the range" are grouping "on paper", only. And, Non gun owners that I take to the range (as often as I can, as a matter of civic duty) can get all their shots on the B6 50 yard target when brought in to 50 feet after an afternoon of coaching. Those afternoons by the way are some of my favorite days.

From my experience most people are not gunnies, but can be brought to proficiency to hit at least all the B6 target, somewhere, when placed at 50 feet in a relatively short period of time. That is the standard that I see. If one can get on the B6 paper at 50 feet in one afternoon, that should be the starting point for nearly everyone.

 

[rha600]

I can divide my shooting into 4 groups.

1) rifle. I can probably put myself into the above average catagory for my rifle skills but then I've been shooting them since I could walk practically. I've only shot as far as 250ish yards while deer hunting and I'd love to shoot farther but I'm restricted on ranges down here in south FLA. but at 100 yards with my .17HMr i can put 3 shots in a quarter with no problem

2) shotgun. Forgot it. If I shot at 40 skeet I'd be lucky to hit 4. To put it bluntly I just plain suck with a shotgun for some reason.

3) pistol. I'd say I'm average. at 7-10 yards and depending on the gun I can keep my groups within 2" to 4". both of my .22 guns are great to shoot and very accurate. With my 9mm PX4 and my .38/.357 (2" barrel) the groups are still within 4".

4) bow. I haven't bow hunted or even shot one in years but "back in the day" I used to put 6 arrows in a 3" pie plate at 25-30 yards. But again, I have been shooting bows since I was a little guy.

 

[w_houle]

Some days are better than others for me, although I do seem to be progressively shaking worse, and now the days of making 4" are seldom to the point where I'm just glad they all make it on paper most of the time.
Hand, wrist, arm, upper body exercise isn't helping. I'd like a job again, so I can afford my Inderal... I didn't want to say anything because I've had to bring myself in to 15 feet in order to have good looking targets

 

[scarredpelt]

@ 25 yards I can hit the back wall of the range.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Bullseye shooters are not average shooters. Don't watch them. It could do you harm.

A lot depends on the type of gun the shooter uses. Some, like the Ruger MK whatever family, seem to have flight control systems on board the bullet. Lighter firearms with "brisk" loads are more of a challenge.

For my part, it seems I take 50 rounds just to warm up, get zen and settle down. Today I was happy keeping most of my shots inside an 8" black at 15 yards with a 4" S&W M66 with somewhat hot home loaded .38 spl, double action. My 686+ would make it a lot easier, but then what's the fun?

Unlike SaxonPig with his 25 yard group I was happy with this single action one at 7 yds.

 

[Gunfighter123]

As others have posted -- average is very hard to define.

I am a "average" Bullseye shooter.
I am a "average" Trap shooter.
I am a "average" Skeet shooter.

But if we are talking about other types of shooting;

Some would say I am a "above average" Steel Challenge shooter
Some would say I am a "above average" IPSC/IDPA shooter
Some would say I am a "above average" SASS/Cowboy Action shooter
Some would say I am a "above average" Action/Combat Shotgun shooter
Some would say I am a "above average" Action/Combat Revolver shooter
Some would say i am a "above average" Bowling Pin/2nd Chance shooter

In over 25+ years of competitive shooting I have been Blessed/Lucky enough to have won between 200/300 trophies/plaques/ribbons etc. ---- that may sound like a lot BUT I have shot in over 2000+ matches !!!! In my "prime" {10/15 years ago } I would shoot over 1000 rds. of .45acp in ONE DAY of practice. Aside from work {gotta pay to play} my life revolved around reloading, practiceing, instructing, and competiting. Then came children and my life revolved around them !!!

The photo I post below is not there to brag . It is a sample of what can be achived with a lot of TIME,MONEY and HARD WORK. After awhile , the wife/girlfriend will say " no more of that JUNK in here and you may have boxes of trophies in the garage { I know this for fact} -- what matters to me , is the PEOPLE and FUN that I have had -- not the trophies.




in closeing , really the only way you can see if you are "average" is to put your money up and shoot in whatever type of competition that is FUN TO YOU !!!

 

[Gunfighter123]

Sorry -- double tap

 

[Gunfighter123]

Sorry --- triple tap


Told ya I was fassst !!!!

 

[ArkieVol]

How do you get to Carnegie Hall...

Practice, practice, practice...

The secret to accomplishing anything. Good for you for taking lessons and learning the right way. Keep reading, practicing and learning and you'll be fine.

I owned guns all my life but never shot much, maybe 400 rounds a year but did ok. When I retired, I never fired a round for over 10 years but a motorcycle crash a couple of years ago left me with a paralyzed left hand and the need for a new hobby so, last year, I bought a couple of new guns, joined a shooting club and started shooting again and reloading. Fired 1200 rounds last year.

Been too cold to shoot this year but the attached pic is from last Oct.. 46 rounds at 7 yds one hand no support with a 2" S&W mod 60 using .38 spl. wadcutters. The three flyers were my last three shots...got tired I guess. I'm 73.

 

[Losov]

My daughter is applying to several police agencies. Since she'd never fired a gun, I thought it time to get her acquainted with the experience.

My goal at the first outing was to teach her weapon and range safety, get her comfortable in a grip and a stance and to get used to the feel of the weapon discharging. How well she shot was secondary. We used an SP 101 .22lr snubbie and a Colt King Cobra with a 4" barrel.

Actually, she shot pretty well. We used silhouette targets with the red over the head and the heart. No tight groupings, but as mentioned, shots loosely clustered in the area of concentration.

To minimize target manipulation, we elected to use different areas of the target with each cylinder, i.e., right shoulder, left shoulder, neck, corners, etc. The result was a target with bullet holes all over the damn place.

When we were leaving, she happened to walk past the president of the club, a highly respected older gentleman, who asked to see her target. He looked at it shaking his head, and suggested she enroll in the ladies instruction program. Actually not a bad idea, but she had in reality shot much better than he thought. He's one of those guys you don't interrupt or correct, so we just thanked him and went on our way.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Yeah, I am probably in the top 75% of regular shooters which puts me in the top 5% of gun owners. Given the number of gun owners, that sounds pretty good until you realize how many really either don't shoot or don't shoot often. A lot are just happy to hit the target at 7 yards with a pistol or 100 yards with a rifle...meaning they need to be good enough to shoot a person for self defense or to be able to kill a deer.

SaxonPig, not to worry. Your aim will improve with time. 1 of 5 isn't bad, but I think you will enjoy being able to get most or even all your shots in the black and eventually into the X ring.

 

[Old Shooter]

Most of the people on this site are probably above average just due to their interest in the subject.If it is something you like to do and are willing to put in the practice/range time eventually you will improve, perhaps to a striking degree. When it comes to shooting paper at the range, I find that if I start out with a couple of mags from my 22 and then go to the centerfires I will shoot much tighter groups as compared to using the centerfires right off the bat. An exception is when I am using my S&W model 66, that one just tries to shove them all through the same hole by itself.

 

[dogngun]

I used to be pretty good with a handgun, better with a rifle. I had bypass surgery in '03, and I have been terrible since - never got all my strength back in my hands, and can't seem to hold a rifle still enough anymore to be really accurate...of course I am going on 63, so my eyes may have something to do with it, too. I will be shooting more this summer than I have for years, and maybe things will improve a bit.

I was always a bad wing shot with a shotgun, even though I qualified with one and carried one in the Army a long time ago. Different ball game altogether.

As far as the "average" gun owner, I'd probably want to be elsewhere when they start shooting...I am sure very few get much practice of instruction.

mark

 

[Jonah71]

When both eyes worked, I was an excellent shot. I was also much younger and so was my "good eye". Now, depending on what I'm holding, I'm not good at all. From 15-20 yards with my S&W .38 special I do ok. With the 9mm Compact semi auto, .380, .45, and .22 mag 2 " .....LOL. I shoot a LOT. The only thing that seems to be improving is my loading speed and the time it takes to clean my guns.

 

[woodsoup]

"Free standing slow fire I can get them all into an 8" paper plate at 10 yards."

Dude, you need some serious coaching. For everyone's sake including the public. Not knocking you, just saying...

Al

Dude, I'm 63, the eyes are going, and the shakes set in after a few minutes of holding that 2 pound chunk of stainless steel out there. At least I'm honest about my results.
Not to mention, I've only owned the weapon since December and have only put maybe 150 rounds through it at an outdoor range. How average are you "DUDE"?

 

[Gunfighter123]

[QUOTEDude, you need some serious coaching. For everyone's sake including the public. Not knocking you, just saying...

Al ][/QUOTE]

Al LaVodka -------- that comment WAS NOT very "the high road" of you at all. Now I think you should "man up" and say that was the wrong thing to post !!!!

Or you could just post proof of how good a shooter YOU are ---just saying !!!

 

[Myles]

The compliment from a passing stranger at the range could have also been a nice friendly way to encourage a new shooter.

 

[Action_Can_Do]

The average hunter is a bad shot.
The average cop is a bad shot.
Why? Because they only shoot their guns one week out of the year. Think of how bad of a driver you might be if you only drove one week out of the year. At the age of 50, you would have less driving experience and skill than the average 17 year old. If you go to the range once a month, you're a better shot than 90% of the people out there who own guns. I wouldn't be surprised at all to discover that the majority of members of this site are above average shooters, as we're all enthusiasts. Kinda like, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who spent time on a movie trivia website knew more about movies than me, even though I own some.

 

[f4t9r]

I can hit anything thats bigger then a pie plate at 7 yards.
I am just that good.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Hey, what is this constant thing about "old eyes"? All you have to see is the front sight--reading glasses ought to do it. The rest is supposed to be blurry.

I will admit that when the black is so blurred it begins to look like two targets things get complicated. And the floaters can be a PIA as well if the shooter is trying to hurry.

64 year old eyes with .8 lenses here.

 

[gwnorth]

Throw in some major astigmatism and the need (and I do mean need) for progressive multifocal lenses, and it becomes a bit more difficult then just "hey, I can see the front sight"