The Barrel Length Trade Off

[numaone]

Hey guys,
I am usually over on the rifle side of town, but I'm looking to getting into the shotgun side. I own a variety of rifles and handguns that I love, but I've only been skeet and trap shooting a couple of times, and that is the extent of my shotgun experience.

Generally speaking, what are the trade-off as you shorten the barrel length on a shotgun? I know on a rifle, you are losing velocity as you shorten the barrel, so I assume the same would be true for a scatter gun? How significant is this effect?

Second, the 18"barrel seems to be the HD standard. Can an 18" barrel be used for sporting purposes as well? like skeet and trap, or even hunting? I've read that most trap barrels are over 30", what does the extra foot of barrel afford you? Better sight picture and more velocity? Would I be laughed off the Trap line if I showed up with a pistol grip 18" barrel?

Finally, are most shotgun barrels rifled or smoothbore? I assume the rifling is for slugs, but what effect does it have on the scattershot?


I plan on buying a Remington 870 in the near future. I am trying to do some initial research into what my needs are. If the 870 is anything like my Remington 700, I know I will love this thing to death.

Thanks,
Numaone

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

A shotshell reaches max velocity in 18 to 20in of barrel----barrel length doesn't matter much other than handling characteristics.

 

[natman]

Rifled barrels are for sabot slugs. If you shoot shot through them the spin will scatter the pattern. Most shotgun barrels are smoothbore. The velocity difference in different length barrels is not nearly as great in shotguns as in rifles.

The big difference is in how the gun will swing. An 18" barrel is too short to maintain a smooth swing easily. Having said that will prompt a flood of responses from guys about how good they are because they hit a clay with an 18" barrelled shotgun once, but the fact remains that it's a lot easier to hit a moving target with a 26 or 28" barrel.

 

[Virginian]

Shotguns generally reach maximum velocity in about 26-28" of barrel length with modern powders, but the fall off in velocity with shorter barrels is much less than with rifles. I have a table somewhere but can't find it right now. The only purpose of a shorter barrel like an 18" is it is handier. Skeet used to be shot with barrels like 26", but the trend lately has been to longer barrels all around. I still use a 26", never having been especially fashionable or wanting to be. Sporting clays will run 27" to 32", and trap 30" and up. Longer sighting plane and more moment of inertia to help the swing are the usual reasons given. I am a strong proponent of the "Use what you like best" rather than the "Experts say to do yada yada" school. I like a 28" Light Contour RemChoke barrel on my 1100 and a 30" Light Contour on my Wingmaster. Handle some and see what you like. You can shoot anything with an 18" barrel, but yopu will soon learn why no one used them for wingshooting. If you are just starting out you may want to look at a used one until you have time to firm up your own personal tastes. If you buy a good used gun, and take decent care of it, you can usually sell it for no loss.
All 870s are not created equal anymore. When you start looking you will see what I mean. A Wingmaster may be a lot closer to what you are used to than an Express.
A rifled barrel is designed to shoot sabot slugs. Rifled slugs are used in smoothbore barrels. Rifling will cause excessive dispersion of the shot pattern if used to shoot shotshells - not desireable.

 

[jmr40]

If you plan on buying an 870 I would get 2 barrels. Something in the 18.5"-20" range for SD uses and another 26"-28" for hunting and target work. There is very little difference in velocity with the shorter barrels but you will find it easier to hit moving targets with the longer barrels. Most shorter barrels do not come with interchangeable chokes either.

Decide which is more important to you and buy the gun with the barrel you want, then add the other later.

 

[natman]

Take a look at this.

A lot of guys want the same package, why Remington doesn't sell a combo like this mystifies me.

If you do get one of these be sure to put the mag plug in before you take it hunting!

 

[Fred Fuller]

natman,

You've been mystified for no good reason, I'm afraid... Though these used to be available with smoothbore 20" barrels, why they went to rifled 20" barrels with no option for smoothbore I don't know.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_combos.asp

lpl

 

[natman]

natman,

You've been mystified for no good reason, I'm afraid... Though these used to be available with smoothbore 20" barrels, why they went to rifled 20" barrels with no option for smoothbore I don't know.

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ess_combos.asp

Then I guess we're both mystified, because I don't know why they don't offer an 18-20" smoothbore barrel combo either.

The rifled barrel option is nice, but I could sell 5 combos with a short smoothbore for every one I could sell with a rifled slug barrel. And they offer the complete gun with an 18" barrel. Just add the 28" barrel and stand back.

 

[SN13]

The velocity loss from 18-30" is something like 130 FPS.

Here, I found a Chart:

 

[Snarlingiron]

Would I be laughed off the Trap line if I showed up with a pistol grip 18" barrel?

I don't think so, however, I shoot at two different clubs. One does not allow any shotguns with a barrel length of less than 22". The other one doesn't care. I hear that many clubs do not allow short barreled guns. Give them a call before you show up.

Remington barrels are plentiful and not terribly expensive (compared to oh, let's say a Beretta or a Benelli). I have an 870 Express that came with a 26" barrel with Remchokes. I bought an 18" bead sighted barrel for somewhere around $100.00. It wears the short barrel when it is at home, and when it goes hunting it gets the 26" Remchoke barrel.

So for south of $400.00 you can have basically 2 shotguns. Not bad.

 

[rcmodel]

Can an 18" barrel be used for sporting purposes as well? like skeet and trap, or even hunting?

IMO: No, not really.

The problem is, most all 18" barrels are cyl bore, with no interchangable choke-tube option.

Many of the sporting games & hunting will require at least some degree of choke to get enough range to bust the clay birds or kill the game birds.

Were it me, I would buy a 26" vent rib gun with interchangable choke tubes first.
Then get an 18" Cyl bore riot gun barrel later if you feel the need.

The longer barrel will move the muzzle blast further away from your ears for those long days on the clays range!

That will best cover all the sporting bases and give you the compact riot gun barrel for HD.
(Although a 26" skeet or quail gun will kill a bad guy just as dead)

rc

 

[natman]

Would I be laughed off the Trap line if I showed up with a pistol grip 18" barrel?

Not if you can hit anything with it. Which I doubt you would. 18" barrel is bad enough. If you can hit 10 out of 25 on a trap range with a pistol grip 18" cylinder choke shotgun I'd be amazed.

It is technically still a shotgun, but otherwise it's about as inappropriate a match of task and firearm as I can imagine.

 

[ArmedBear]

I'd suggest that you practice extensively with the pistol grip shotgun at trap targets, in secret. Make sure nobody sees you, and that no rumors start.

When you can hit 25 straight, go to around to trap ranges, make bets, and make some money.

It will help pay for wrist surgery.

 

[SN13]

I don't think he means PGO.

I've beaten guys with $8k rigs at Trap with my 19", Poly-choked Saiga-12. Never got a 25 but did get a couple of 24s and alot of 23s.

My 29" O/U is easier to use but not as fun.

IMO, it has less to do with the gun and more to do with practice. Borrow a cheap O/U, practice at trap/skeet for a few months at least once a week. When you can consistently break 21+ with the OU, bring out the 18".... You'll start breaking 18-21 regularly. PRACTICE is far more important than what gun you're using.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Folks why not point out the reason for the shorter barrel on Military and Police shotguns, and the fact that transferred to civilian HD shotguns?

The original military shotguns were five shot just like the civilian counterparts. The barrel was shortened from sporting lengths, and later they added a bayonet lug and a heat shield for trench warfare in WWI, as it was an up close and personal weapon, and was later found to be great for trenches when the bad guys got into your trench or you got into theirs (imho).

The shorter barrel also made for easier handling in heavy woods or jungle terrain in later wars. (Heck they gave orders to Light Infantry/Ranger companies in the F&I War to shorten their muskets.) The shorter barrels also did well in saddle scabbards for pump guns just as the old SxS guns did in scabbards or from the top of a stagecoach, and later when cars and trucks were standard transport, they were handy too. So shorter shotguns were great for military and police use. (You can't put a 26" barreled shotgun in vertical mount inside a police car without a folding stock eh?)

BUT look at defense shotguns today, with extended ammo tubes. They have longer barrels no? Extend that 870 from a five shot to a ten shot and you have a 24-26 inch barrel right?

So..., unless you intend to defeat Germans in a trench, take out Japanese on a jungle island, or exit a squad car, you don't need the shorter barrel. The 26" is fine for home defense, and you can if you absolutely need to, have the barrel bobbed a bit, and have choke tubes re-installed.

Besides, depending on how stupid the local DA is when it comes to SD in your home..., it's better (IMHO) to have defended yourself with your hunting and clay bird sporting gun when dealing with a knuckled headed lawyer, than to have that mean and nasty, black, extended tube, pistol gripped, fiber optic sighted, laser pointer equipped shotgun with the side saddle of extra ammo. At least it is here in the People's Republic of Maryland.

LD

 

[MCgunner]

I hunt with a coach gun, do well enough. If you get used to swinging the short barrel, you can do about as well with it on those high fliers. PGO stock? Well, not so much. LOL

A longer barrel will help your scores on the skeet range, though, through smoother swing. You miss a dove, it's no biggy. Miss a clay in a tournament, it's a little more important to you.

 

[PTK]

Folks I know have successfully shot trap and skeet with my 12" barreled SBS 870. Just FWIW...

 

[Gary A]

I'm not sure I could lift and swing a 12 foot barrel.

 

[PTK]

My mistake, painkillers for a broken ankle....

 

[Gary A]

My mistake, painkillers for a broken ankle....

Understood. I often make similar mistakes completely unaided.

 

[MCgunner]

I don't need an excuse for typos. I called a "1.5 hour boat ride" a "1.5 hour boar ride" in the hunting forum and had everyone thinkin' I was a hog wrangler.:banghead:

 

[natman]

BUT look at defense shotguns today, with extended ammo tubes. They have longer barrels no? Extend that 870 from a five shot to a ten shot and you have a 24-26 inch barrel right?

Well, no. Mossberg's extended 8 shot has a 20" barrel. Remington's 7 shot has an 18" barrel. A ten shot would require a somewhat longer barrel, which is why they're not popular. See below.

So..., unless you intend to defeat Germans in a trench, take out Japanese on a jungle island, or exit a squad car, you don't need the shorter barrel. The 26" is fine for home defense, and you can if you absolutely need to, have the barrel bobbed a bit, and have choke tubes re-installed.

Or unless you think your home defense scenario might take place inside your home. Then your 18" barrel will seem plenty long.

 

[Snakum]

I've been researching shotguns and barrels a lot lately, and with Lee's help - and a few other folks' - I finally landed on a combination for HD, Deer hunting, and turkeys. I got a Remington 870 HD gun with the 18.5" barrel. But I'm putting a 23" smoothbore Rem Choked "Turkey barrel" on it which will still be short enough to maneuver in an HD scenario (and it is mho that a 26" barrel actually is an issue indoors for solving HD/Tactical issues, at least using conventional clearing tactics), but also provides the rem choke system (threads) for adding an extended rifled choke for sabots, an improved or tighter choke for turkey loads, or full choke for rifled slugs and buckshot - or some other combination or nother than only requires a quick choke change to do everything I need.

One receiver and barrel that will do it all, relatively well.

YMMV of course.

 

[Gary A]

Snakum, that's a rifle-sighted barrel, correct? I like a shorter barrel for upland shooting around here and they don't seem to make that with a bead.

 

[Youngster]

IMO 18-20" bbls give up a lot of versatile shootability to sporting length barrels on one hand and are nowhere near as handy as 14" or shorter barrels are in tight spaces on the other.