The Big Heller Decision Discussion Thread - AFFIRMED 2ND AS INDIVIDUAL RIGHT

[gmark340]

Quote:
"Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement."

And was it necessary to the case for Heller to concede anything at all?

 

[distortion9]

-"Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation."

This is how I'm taking it too...

So, what about non carry States now? Can we challenge?

 

[lacoochee]

From reading Scalia's opinion, it sounds to me like the 1986 machine gun ban is here to stay. Is that how others are interpretting this?

Isn't he saying that since full autos are not common in civilian use, but are instead a military weapon, that the ban would be OK?

If that is what he is saying, why is everyone so happy?

Because we have drawn a line as to where the infringement stops. We also never have to hear the whole stupid its a collective right argument again.

I would bet the majority of us would be satisfied it not completely happy if we were told however things stand today this is as bad as it gets from here on out. Our enemies our now completely on the defensive and are reacting.

 

[scurtis_34471]

This law does not hurt us. It provides a solid floor to stand on. We now know that there are limits to what the gun grabbers can do. This is something we didn't really have before. I think that this ruling will make an AWB more unlikely, as it would be hard to argue that AR-15s and semi-auto AKs are not in common use.

The narrowness of this ruling means we will have to keep up the pressure on the political front. If we want nation-wide concealed carry and an end to the machine gun ban, we will have to continue to fight for them.

 

[Gunsby_Blazen]

I am listening to these jokers on CNN, they are saying that the S Court is reasonable because on one side that it is in individual right but on the other, an ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN IS ALSO REASONABLE. So there you go, I think we are still gonna see a resurrection of that bloody beast. On the news, they are already talking of bans. So right when I am feeling good they got to rip my high away and try to depress me.....

 

[Titus]

Quote:
"Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement."

And was it necessary to the case for Heller to concede anything at all?

I don't know if it was necessary, but their recognition of "not enforced arbitrarily or capriciously" I imagine will come up when Mayor Fenty tries to get cute.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

From CNN:

There were 143 gun-related murders in Washington last year, compared with 135 in 1976, when the handgun ban was enacted.

Gun Ban = More Murders.



Hmmmm.......there's a shocker. (albiet higher population now).

 

[charon]

Breyer is such a hack.

I scanned his dissent and about 2/3 had nothing to do with the Constitutional issues and was all in support of his personal beliefs on the need for gun control. I don't recall electing Breyer to legislate from the bench on issues beyond the scope of Constitutionality.

I suppose that's actually a good thing in such a tight decision, in that his views are even outside the mainstream dissent. [edit: though the other dissenters did sign off on it apparently]

 

[ilbob]

The court was asked to rule if the DC laws in question violated the 2A. They ruled that it did. That is all that was asked of them.

 

[ctdonath]

We have a very narrow verdict which tries very hard, and perhaps not very well, to ward off application of the core principles to logical extensions thereof.

Categorical bans are upheld insofar as the bans have been effective enough to render the category not "common".
The core purpose of the explanatory clause has been neutered.

We have "reasonable restrictions" insofar as full-bore licensing is upheld.
The contraband arms of DC residents do not become legal today, as they are not licensed.

The narrow verdict is achieved, and that by building walls against the next logical steps.

It could be worse, but that it isn't doesn't mean I'm happy.

 

[JWarren]

ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN IS ALSO REASONABLE

They are going to have trouble with the "Common Usage" clause.


Considering how many high-caps and EBRs sell every year, they will have a HARD time saying they are not in Common Usage for legal purpose such as self-defense.

I think this very well just ENDED the possiblity of another AWB. And if nothing else, it gives a STRONG platform to challenge an AWB and strike it down.


-- John

 

[lacoochee]

From CNN:
Quote:
There were 143 gun-related murders in Washington last year, compared with 135 in 1976, when the handgun ban was enacted.

Gun Ban = More Murders.



Hmmmm.......there's a shocker. (albiet higher population now).

Amazingly not true, a lot of people ran away in the last 30 years.

1800 8,144
—
1810 15,471 90%
1820 23,336 50.8%
1830 30,261 29.7%
1840 33,745 11.5%
1850 51,687 53.2%
1860 75,080 45.3%
1870 131,700 75.4%
1880 177,624 34.9%
1890 230,392 29.7%
1900 278,718 21%
1910 331,069 18.8%
1920 437,571 32.2%
1930 486,869 11.3%
1940 663,091 36.2%
1950 802,178 21%
1960 763,956 −4.8%
1970 756,510 −1%
1980 638,333 −15.6%
1990 606,900 −4.9%
2000 572,059 −5.7%

 

[jaak]

i do not like this ruling... too much crap left open to interpretation. especially awb's.

 

[bigjoegood1]

I'm sure Fenty and his city council crew are going to drag their feet on drafting new regulations for bringing a handgun into the city as there are already talks of initially allowing only one handgun in the house.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

What's an EBR and SBR?

 

[ctdonath]

That is all that was asked of them.

No, they went farther and drew lines saying "while there is a right, it only goes this far". They did not leave ambiguity outside what was asked of them.

 

[lacoochee]

EBR - "Evil Black Rifle"

SBR - "Short Barreled Rifle"

 

[ctdonath]

Methinks another AWB is prevented insofar as EBRs are indeed quite common.

Unfortunately, there is now much room for bickering over whether a product constitutes "common".

 

[CannonFodder]

What's an EBR and SBR?

Two very common, very popular types of firearms.
Heck, I saw plenty of them in American Rifleman this month!

 

[jaak]

ebr = evil black rifle
sbr = short barreled rifle.

 

[Big45]

i do not like this ruling...

Would you prefer a 5-4 reversal of Heller?

 

[Don Gwinn]

The new AWB was always in the works. You are greatly better off today than you were yesterday--let's not freak out because we didn't get every problem magically whisked away. They're only judges.

 

[ilbob]

"Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement."

And was it necessary to the case for Heller to concede anything at all?

I don't think anything was conceded at all. To get standing required showing some kind of harm was done. Heller tried to get a gun registered and was unable to do so.

I would ask this - does it violate your right to vote if you have to be registered to vote? How is your RTKBA violated if there is some licensing and registration requirement that is neither arbitrary nor capricious?

Besides, read the most important part of what they said in their decision.

the Court ... does not address the licensing requirement

IOTW, they did not address the separate issue of licensing at all.

I bet someone will have a case in court real soon that will address that issue.

 

[LJH]

Yeah!

 

[Big Boomer]

so when can the people in DC actually take their pistols out of the closet and dig them up in the back yard and rightfully place them next to the nightstand?