the cost of shooting ... AR vs. AK

[SSN Vet]

This topic came up on a Rifle Country thread and I posted the following rebutal to the comment that "you can reload 7.62x39 for 10 cents a pop"

Did I get it right? or am I missing something?

My solution is to cast my own for the AK, but after disappointing initial results, I haven't had the time to work up an acceptable load yet. Though I am still hopefull. The other down side to this is that I find pan lubing to be a pita and don't have the coin to drop on a lube sizer these days.

you can reload 7.62x39 for about ten cents. I would say that is cheaper than 5.56 reloads.

no offense, but that just aint the way it is these days.

your gonna spend 2-3 cents/ea. for either large primers for the 7.62x39 or small rifle primers. no difference there.

gonna drop ~25 grains of powder in either one, so no difference there.

so what's going to cost more....

a 55 grain .224" dia. bullet? You can easilly find Win. or new Military surplus M193 bullets for $.07/ea. You can even get Hornadies for $.08/ea.

or

a 124 gr. .311" dia. bullet? Your going to have to look hard to find them for $.12/ea.

Good luck trying to scrounge up free range pick up brass for you 7.62 x 39. Your going to have to buy loaded ammo. w/ boxer primed brass cases (to the tune of $.50/ea. + s/h for Fiachii or Privi Partisan, or $.70/ea for WWB at Wally world) and reload it after you've fired it. Or, you can buy NEW Winchester brass to the tune of $.35/case

Where on the other hand, I find .223 brass free for the taking every time I go to the rifle range.

I bought and converted a Saiga thinking it would be cheap to shoot.... Now even Wolf ammo. is >$5/box ($.25/ea.)

I built an AR from a kit and @ ~$.17/ea. for my reloads, it's the cheapest shooting of any gun I own.

 

[gtmerkley]

AK47 is about $.05 a round cheaper if you can find it.

 

[Bartkowski]

Everything said in the quote about 7.62x39 being more expensive seems right to me. And should you ever want quality ammo, you can use a wide variety .224" bullets and a fair amount of powders. Compared to the little bullets you can find and the one powder for 7.62.

 

[Z-Michigan]

The quote looks right on to me - I was making these calculations recently in deciding whether to add a 762x39mm. I didn't. The cost of raw materials is big now.

Similar logic applies to 9mm reloading... unless you cast bullets, it's hard to reload 9mm with used cases for less money than you buy factory 9mm WWB at Wally world.

 

[Hunter0924]

I believe your math is on.
I have heard casting for a gas gun is a no no as lead can build up around the orifice.
I could see it would be easy to clean the ofifice on an M1A as the pistol is removable but what about a closed system like the AR15?

 

[SSN Vet]

I have heard casting for a gas gun is a no no as lead can build up around the orifice.
I could see it would be easy to clean the ofifice on an M1A as the pistol is removable but what about a closed system like the AR15?

From what I've read the SKS and AK have a big gas port and on the AK it's fairly accessible when you pull the gas tube.

I wont shoot cast in my AR.

Similar logic applies to 9mm reloading...

but at least you can get 9mm Luger brass for free.

My mistake was that I got into this (bought rifle, set up to reload and then cast) without realizing that x39 brass was going to be expensive to procure.

I didn't anticipate that I was going to have to buy 100 rounds of factory ammo. and 100 new cases, to build my little "nest egg" of materials.

I guess re-loading .30-30 and .223 Rem has spoiled me!

In hind site, in my mind I've figured out the one word explanation for the "extreme" popularity of the AK...........WOLF.

don't get me wrong....I do think the AK platform has many merits....but after reading the Rifle Country board regularly for some 18 months, I'm starting to think the AK "hype" is a little over the top.

Now donning flame retardant vest...

 

[evan price]

Is it just me, or is the obvious solution to buy a .223 caliber AK like a WASR-3?

AK gas piston system. Mousegun cartridge. Problem solved (If you can get a WASR-3 that actually works...)

 

[xsquidgator]

I too have tried casting for 7.62x39 (about 8 cents each for powder and primer by my figuring and ignoring the brass cost). And, I too had disappointing results initially and have not gone back to work things out yet. My lead boolits out of an AK were pretty inaccurate, about good enough to hit a man-sized outline at 25 yards but that's it. Out of an SKS with longer barrel they worked better, good enough to hit a coke can at 25 yards.

I have a chronograph now that I didn't use to have, and I'm hopeful that if I experiment around with a variety of charges and sizing/not sizing the boolits I can get some better accuracy.

Ditto for 8mm Mauser, I cast for that and the initial results were very disappointing. At 10 yards my boolits cast a shotgun like pattern, I have a lot of work to do with those too.


So, with all these problems (the SKS and AK really sling that precious 7.62x39 brass way out into the bushes too), I'd have to say reloading 223 is cheaper. I've never bought a single piece of 223/566 brass, and every range trip I leave with more than I came with. I think my powder/primer/bullet cost for 55FMJs comes out to about 15 cents each which still isn't too bad.

I think reloading for 223 is the way to go.

 

[Hiaboo]

reloading for the .223 is def. the way to go.. You can make jacketed bullets for .223 out of .22 shell casings.. The startup cost on that is enormous but people do it just for fun, just another aspect of the challenge of doing everything yourself or to speak of.

 

[CBS220]

Cast works VERY well in my AKs.

14.2 grains of 2400, a large rifle primer, a 155 grain cast boolit... about $0.07 each.

However, most reloaders don't cast, and there really aren't many well priced cast bullets out there for .311s, it seems.

I've heard of people using cast in ARs, but generally they only tried it as a curiousity... I've never cast for a .22, but I bet its a PITA.

 

[res45]

And should you ever want quality ammo, you can use a wide variety .224" bullets and a fair amount of powders. Compared to the little bullets you can find and the one powder for 7.62.

Really Just about ever major bullet Mfg. along with several independent bullet makers,make .310 and .311 dia bullets in weights of 123,124 125 and 150 gr. I personally have five different bullets on hand I can load for my SKS rifles for what ever purpose I choose from FMJ and SP to the Hornady V-MAX a Graf exclusive bullet. As far as powders there is more than one choice I use several AA1680,IMR 4198,IMR 4227,Reloader #7,H-335 and Unique or 2400 if you like to shoot cast bullets. Brass isn't a problem either I get once fired Remington brass for $75/500 I also bought about 2k Rds. of berdan primed Lapua wood bullet ammo on the cheap just pull the bullets resize add your favorite powder and bullet,thats my hunting ammo so I don't have to worry about where the brass goes.

 

[ar10]

It's about .08 per round for my 7.62 but I'm not complaining at all. Working at a private range is the biggest advantage for me because I can pick up all the brass I will ever need. I will say the .223/.224's are much more abundant than the 7.62 brass but I still picked up over 500 of them.
As far as the expense goes I shoot a CZ527 bolt action rifle so I like to reload my own bullets. Most of the AK shooters use the steel case Wolf ammo and I won't even bother to pick that stuff up.
Right now i have well over 8k cartridges of calibers I shoot so the reloading cost is pretty cost effective for me.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I know this is the reloading forum, but my current calculation is that, for now, you can buy steelcased 7.62x39for roughly the same or less $/rd than you can reload .223. The bullet quality and accuracy won't directly compare, but you won't be working in the basement for hours either. You can save your reloading energy for bigger rounds where you save more money.

This is only good for plinking or action shooting - for precision work those reloaded .223's will likely shoot much tighter than surplus 7.62x39.

 

[res45]

I got my first SKS about three years ago I decided right off that the Russian stuff just didn't get the job done,I'm more into hitting the x ring on a regular basis than I am piling up lots of steel cases. I bought up enough bullets,powder and primers to last me a lifetime when they were cheap. Using my current stockpile I can load a box of 20 for $5 with quality components and get this on a regular basis out of my YUGO. Reloading is one of my hobbies and my get away time,I never even consider the time it take reloading,when it gets to a point it seem more like a job than and enjoyment then I'll just quit.

 

[SSN Vet]

didn't know this thread ever went any where....

Cast works VERY well in my AKs.

14.2 grains of 2400, a large rifle primer, a 155 grain cast boolit... about $0.07 each.

I loaded test rounds for my cast 155 gr. bullets starting at 14.5 gr. of 2400and going up to 16 gr.

I did not get consistant cycling of the action untill I hit 15.5 gr (recommended max. load by many).

I did not get 100% reliable cycling of the action untill I went up to 16 gr. of 2400 (which showed no signs of overpressure).

Accuracy was spotty (though I didn't have enough loaded to adjust sights and shoot groups).

My next batch will be loaded w/ 1680 once I lube up some more boolits.

I'm shooting a converted Saiga with a 16" barrel.

Maybe the newly manufactured Saigas have stiffer springs than found on older mil. surp. type weapons.