"The Cost of the War in Iraq" - A Running Total
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Does it matter?
Personally, I like seeing numbers. You can take $80 billion and divide by 292 million (current estimate of US population) and assume that we're looking at $275 per person in the US that's been spent on this war to date. I wish we knew how many taxpayers there are as I think that'd be a more telling statistic.
I think a reasonable question here would be "do you support the war if victory and rebuilding are free?" Follow that up with "Do you support it if your "fair share" of the cost is half of your take-home salary?" Now, how do people really feel? You'll probably see support wane with increasing costs (simple demand curve.)
News reports like "another $80 billion allocated for rebuilding in Iraq" don't help because the numbers are so big that no-one can relate. News reports closer to "the cost to the average American couple for this operation is now in excess of $1,000" are more appropriate, but IMHO aren't something we're likely to see in the national news media.
Personally, I think Saddam was an ???, but I worry about things like "legitimacy."
Hkmp5sd
Member
Drjones,
Nope. I'm in complete agreement with the President on Iraq. I just find the site amusing. It's kind of like the "Death Counter" some antigun group has showing handgun deaths. Totally useless.
Nope. I'm in complete agreement with the President on Iraq. I just find the site amusing. It's kind of like the "Death Counter" some antigun group has showing handgun deaths. Totally useless.
FPrice
Member
From just a brief view of this site it has convinced me that if America would just lay down it's arms, spend NO moeny on defense but just on domestic needs, that the world would immediately lapse into a deep and ever-lasting peace and no one would ever fight again and the lion would lay down with the lamb.
NOT!
so what's the real point?
NOT!
so what's the real point?
Something that I find interesting is that no matter what this war cost, they got the money to pay for it. What would this money have been spent on if there had been no war ? In addition, we paid our taxes and they were what they were. No matter what this war cost, we paid what we paid in taxes. It was just a question of what they spent it on.
agricola
Member
this is $80 billion being spent on rebuilding Iraq.
which companies are doing the rebuilding again?
which companies are doing the rebuilding again?
El Tejon
Member
ag, I hope American companies and not Froggie or Dutchie ones!
Western Europe built kindly Uncle Saddams death machine. No way they should be allowed to re-build Free Iraq.
Western Europe built kindly Uncle Saddams death machine. No way they should be allowed to re-build Free Iraq.
agricola
Member
so $80 billion passes from your pockets to the likes of Haliburton and noone bats an eyelid?
El Tejon
Member
ag, the work must be done. It would be inhuman and against our best interest to let Free Iraq stew in a pile of kindly Uncle Saddam's debris.
We need Iraq to get off on a good foot so we can use it as a fulcrum. Blockbusting, old boy, just like y'all taught us in small unit militree tactics.
Haliburton does bad work??? Have someone else in mind? Who?
87 B? That's nothing compared to the trillions shelled out by wagon pullers like me for this awful Nanny State that is destroying us.
The Mormons had a saying went traveling to Utah that they would rather "trade with them and feed them than fight them." Exactly. Get Iraq back on its feet and blockbusting we will go. Hi, ho, to Syrioh, a blockbusting we shall go!
We need Iraq to get off on a good foot so we can use it as a fulcrum. Blockbusting, old boy, just like y'all taught us in small unit militree tactics.
Haliburton does bad work??? Have someone else in mind? Who?
87 B? That's nothing compared to the trillions shelled out by wagon pullers like me for this awful Nanny State that is destroying us.
The Mormons had a saying went traveling to Utah that they would rather "trade with them and feed them than fight them." Exactly. Get Iraq back on its feet and blockbusting we will go. Hi, ho, to Syrioh, a blockbusting we shall go!
agricola
Member
el tejon,
you know, the saddest part of all this is that the US appears to have had its soul replaced by that of our Empire during the reign of Victoria.
you know, the saddest part of all this is that the US appears to have had its soul replaced by that of our Empire during the reign of Victoria.
El Tejon
Member
ag, yes, there have always been those isolationist and racists elements that contend that Europe or Iraq should be left to stew in their own mess. I disagree.
After WWII when we saved Europe, we could have left it to fester and become a snack for the Evil Empire. We choose to help and gained valuable allies against the Evil Empire. The EE could not compete with us and collasped.
Free Iraq is the same scenario. If we help the Iraqis build anew, it will be both a valuable ally against the hotter heads in God's Monkey House and a valuable staging ground against Syria, Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, Pakistan and wherever the New Barbary pirates sail and plunder.
The Base knows this and this is why most resources are going to attempt and drive the US out of Iraq before this work can be completed. The Base must act quickly as the US election is only 13 months away.
After WWII when we saved Europe, we could have left it to fester and become a snack for the Evil Empire. We choose to help and gained valuable allies against the Evil Empire. The EE could not compete with us and collasped.
Free Iraq is the same scenario. If we help the Iraqis build anew, it will be both a valuable ally against the hotter heads in God's Monkey House and a valuable staging ground against Syria, Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, Pakistan and wherever the New Barbary pirates sail and plunder.
The Base knows this and this is why most resources are going to attempt and drive the US out of Iraq before this work can be completed. The Base must act quickly as the US election is only 13 months away.
El Tejon
Member
ag, empire? No, of course not. I think to call the US an Imperial Power is to give in to the hatred of the International Left. They know that America is the last train for socialism and must derail it by any means necessary.
We come not as conquerors but liberators just as we freed Europe time and time again.
If we did not enforce the dictates of the UN and address the threat of kindly Uncle Saddam, who would? The Frogs? Bloated with gold from their business with kindly Uncle Saddam? The Dutchies? Hard at work for kindly Uncle Saddam? Who?
Without violence, the law is meaningless.
The alternative is to allow "the sanctions" (repeatedly violated by the froggies and dutchies) to continue, while we spend billions on keeping watch on the Tigris and waiting for kindly Unlce Saddam to hold the world hostage.
IMO, I would have preferred a ST through his window or have the Christians deal with him. Clinton bulloxed both of those options and kindly Uncle Saddam went to the ground.
We come not as conquerors but liberators just as we freed Europe time and time again.
If we did not enforce the dictates of the UN and address the threat of kindly Uncle Saddam, who would? The Frogs? Bloated with gold from their business with kindly Uncle Saddam? The Dutchies? Hard at work for kindly Uncle Saddam? Who?
Without violence, the law is meaningless.
The alternative is to allow "the sanctions" (repeatedly violated by the froggies and dutchies) to continue, while we spend billions on keeping watch on the Tigris and waiting for kindly Unlce Saddam to hold the world hostage.
IMO, I would have preferred a ST through his window or have the Christians deal with him. Clinton bulloxed both of those options and kindly Uncle Saddam went to the ground.
pittspilot
Member
87 Billion is cheap compared to what it will cost to rebuild an American city if the Islamofacists get what they want.
What did 9/11 cost? More then that 87 Billion, I'd warrant.
What did 9/11 cost? More then that 87 Billion, I'd warrant.
Mark Tyson
Member
We're not a traditional empire, but an empire nonetheless. Hell, we don't want Iraq. We want to be rid of it as soon as we can. We'd rather buy all the oil we need. We're an empire not just of military might but of economic and cultural influence, like the Romans. Enemies like the Taliban and UBL are barbarians in the truest sense of the term. We should deal with them the way Rome dealt with its barbarians - mercilessly. Later on, when Rome tried to placate its enemies, the empire began to fall. Some enemies cannot and should not be negotiated with. No amount of talking or concessions will satisfy our foes. The brutal truth is that sometimes you've just got to kill them all. That's what we're doing in Iraq - drawing the Jihadi nuts out into the battlefield where we can kill them.
Empires are always at war - every day of their existence.
Edited for spelling(again)
Empires are always at war - every day of their existence.
Edited for spelling(again)
bountyhunter
member
The actual cost will take years to have effect. When the government spikes the fed deficit through the roof, they have to operate on borrowed money. That eats up available money from the total supply, and basic economics means the cost of money goes up. banks raise lending rates and you get into the worst economic scenario there is: recession with high unemplyment rates and also high interest rates. It doesn't get any worse than that. It typically takes a few years for the "real pain" caused by the high deficit spending to hit the street. Reagan spiked the deficit in the mid eighties and the recession from that defense spending binge hit us all in the recession of 1990 (out of a job seven months that time). Of course, that one was just a tadpole compared to this Orca.
El Tejon
Member
bounty, Ronnie Raygun broke the back of the Evil Empire. GWB will break the back of the New Barbary pirates.
I'm with you on spending. To save money let's shed a few departments here at home--I suggest Education, Energy and Commerce for the initial modification.
I'm with you on spending. To save money let's shed a few departments here at home--I suggest Education, Energy and Commerce for the initial modification.
Hello agricola.
Just had to respond to this:
"so $80 billion passes from your pockets to the likes of Haliburton and noone bats an eyelid?"
Can you show me where $80 billion is going to Haliburton?
Haliburton may get a contract but they are quite capable of handling the jobs assigned them better than many other companies their size; so I have no problem with a portion of that money going to Haliburton. Not to mention something you may not be thinking about and others may not be as well. Haliburton receiving a % of US money means our tax money going back into a company that will utimately end up back in the US. Not lost revenue to the US. It's an easier way to pump money back into American companies to create more jobs without having to go through all these gridlock committees.
Another fact that some may have missed is that $90 billion is only 5% of the total Congressional budget. $400 billion is going into our already failed public school systems, because if it doesn't work just throw more money at it to fix it. So 4.5 X more money is being spent on something we know there is a problem with and we require no accountability from those spending that money. The $80 billion makes more sense to me.
Also many companies being awarded contracts in Iraq are only getting them if they agree to pumping money of their own into the rebuilding of Iraq. Not a bad business move on either side I must say.
Well, take care.
DRC
Just had to respond to this:
"so $80 billion passes from your pockets to the likes of Haliburton and noone bats an eyelid?"
Can you show me where $80 billion is going to Haliburton?
Haliburton may get a contract but they are quite capable of handling the jobs assigned them better than many other companies their size; so I have no problem with a portion of that money going to Haliburton. Not to mention something you may not be thinking about and others may not be as well. Haliburton receiving a % of US money means our tax money going back into a company that will utimately end up back in the US. Not lost revenue to the US. It's an easier way to pump money back into American companies to create more jobs without having to go through all these gridlock committees.
Another fact that some may have missed is that $90 billion is only 5% of the total Congressional budget. $400 billion is going into our already failed public school systems, because if it doesn't work just throw more money at it to fix it. So 4.5 X more money is being spent on something we know there is a problem with and we require no accountability from those spending that money. The $80 billion makes more sense to me.
Also many companies being awarded contracts in Iraq are only getting them if they agree to pumping money of their own into the rebuilding of Iraq. Not a bad business move on either side I must say.
Well, take care.
DRC
Bigjake
Member
i'm more than happy to shell out 300$ for the ousting of that asshat sadamn and all his ilk, and we got the added benefit of pissing the froggies off too!!.
haliburton? please. i could care less if they get the contract anyway, at least they aint euros, and the money stays in our system.
i think thats the best spent 300$ of my tax money i've ever seen. i'd rather see cool explosions and sadamns ??? handed to him on the tube that some worthess excuse for a human cashing in on welfare provided by the same money to feed his pet tiger
haliburton? please. i could care less if they get the contract anyway, at least they aint euros, and the money stays in our system.
i think thats the best spent 300$ of my tax money i've ever seen. i'd rather see cool explosions and sadamns ??? handed to him on the tube that some worthess excuse for a human cashing in on welfare provided by the same money to feed his pet tiger
Paniolo808
Member
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I was just wondering if there are really that many other companys like Haliburton. Im pretty sure its not like looking through the phone book to find "Bobs Construction and Home Renovation Contracting Service" and say "can you please come to Iraq and give me an estimate on rebuilding an entire country that is currently unstable and pretty much dangerous?".
Bob Construction, "Sure, ill end some guys over next week to have a look."
Why is everyone so against having an American company do the work to this country. I would be outraged if a german or french company got the contract to do the rebuilding work. If pretty much come to the conclusion that in this world and life your damned if you do and damned if you dont. Sometimes you just have to pick the lesser of 2 evils. Aloha!
Dustin
Bob Construction, "Sure, ill end some guys over next week to have a look."
Why is everyone so against having an American company do the work to this country. I would be outraged if a german or french company got the contract to do the rebuilding work. If pretty much come to the conclusion that in this world and life your damned if you do and damned if you dont. Sometimes you just have to pick the lesser of 2 evils. Aloha!
Dustin
Monkeyleg
Member.
Just to keep things in perspective:
A billion seconds ago it was 1971.
A billion minutes ago Jesus had just been crucified.
A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate Washington spends it.
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A billion seconds ago it was 1971.
A billion minutes ago Jesus had just been crucified.
A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate Washington spends it.
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"I was just wondering if there are really that many other companys like Haliburton."
Good point. People love to be critical. If not Haliburton, then who ? Who would be better ? Who else is capable ?
Let's hear something constructive rather than the conspiracy crap.
Good point. People love to be critical. If not Haliburton, then who ? Who would be better ? Who else is capable ?
Let's hear something constructive rather than the conspiracy crap.
Paniolo808
Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2003
- Messages
- 32
Was doing some quick research on the services needed in Iraq and the services an company like halliburton can offer. You can cry "its only for the oil and thats all they care about" and it may be true...what else is Iraq going to export?.....Sheep, fruit......
Halliburtons Qualifications:
Service and products for entire lifecycle of oil and gas reservoirs and provides and integrates products and services, starting with exploration and development, moving through production, operations, maintenance, conversion and refining, to infrastructure and abandonment. Halliburton employs 96,000 people in more than 120 countries KBR, the engineering and construction group, serves the energy industry by designing and building liquefied natural gas plants, refining and processing plants, production facilities and pipelines, both onshore and offshore. KBR's non-energy business meets the engineering and construction needs of governments and civil infrastructure customers. KBR also provides operations and maintenance for a wide variety of facilities.
They offer complete building and infrastrucure repair for transportation services, such as aviation, railroad, roads, ports and harbors. Water and sewage treatment, power plants, whether that be natural gas conventinal coal or renewable, and most importantly can design build operate an mantain all said faciltys in house. Sounds like a hell of a company...and there american based. I say find another company tha can do all of this in house and has our best intrest in mind and hire them. I doubt youll find any.
Thats my .02 for now.....
Halliburtons Qualifications:
Service and products for entire lifecycle of oil and gas reservoirs and provides and integrates products and services, starting with exploration and development, moving through production, operations, maintenance, conversion and refining, to infrastructure and abandonment. Halliburton employs 96,000 people in more than 120 countries KBR, the engineering and construction group, serves the energy industry by designing and building liquefied natural gas plants, refining and processing plants, production facilities and pipelines, both onshore and offshore. KBR's non-energy business meets the engineering and construction needs of governments and civil infrastructure customers. KBR also provides operations and maintenance for a wide variety of facilities.
They offer complete building and infrastrucure repair for transportation services, such as aviation, railroad, roads, ports and harbors. Water and sewage treatment, power plants, whether that be natural gas conventinal coal or renewable, and most importantly can design build operate an mantain all said faciltys in house. Sounds like a hell of a company...and there american based. I say find another company tha can do all of this in house and has our best intrest in mind and hire them. I doubt youll find any.
Thats my .02 for now.....
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