WyldOne
Member
Lock me up, then.
Anti-War Protests Have Big Price Tags
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WyldOne
Member
Thumper
Member
The point of the thread isn't that you don't have a right to peacably protest,Wyld...
It's that many of these young idealists are being manipulated by those who don't have the interests of America at heart.
These organizations have strong ties to those that would cheerfully gas these young idiots and their families.
It's that many of these young idealists are being manipulated by those who don't have the interests of America at heart.
These organizations have strong ties to those that would cheerfully gas these young idiots and their families.
DeltaElite
Member
I certainly would. We locked up three such "protestors" on Saturday. 
Your belief that free speech allows you to infringe upon others freedoms shows that you do not respect others, nor do you understand the concepts this country was founded upon.
Post from Thoreau all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that you do not respect others freedoms. You place your freedoms above others when you impede them with you actions.
BTW, nowhere in that post does Thoreau say to block a roadway and act like a selfish child, you must have made that part up on you own.
Your elitest attitude is coming through, after all your free speech is more important than other peoples freedoms.
When you block a roadway, you are telling people that you are better than them and they will just have to wait for you to have your say, before they can continue on with their lives.
You have every right to protest, but when it interferes with another citizens rights, you have just over stepped your rights and are imposing your will upon another.
Your belief that free speech allows you to infringe upon others freedoms shows that you do not respect others, nor do you understand the concepts this country was founded upon.
Post from Thoreau all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that you do not respect others freedoms. You place your freedoms above others when you impede them with you actions.
BTW, nowhere in that post does Thoreau say to block a roadway and act like a selfish child, you must have made that part up on you own.
Your elitest attitude is coming through, after all your free speech is more important than other peoples freedoms.
When you block a roadway, you are telling people that you are better than them and they will just have to wait for you to have your say, before they can continue on with their lives.
You have every right to protest, but when it interferes with another citizens rights, you have just over stepped your rights and are imposing your will upon another.
I think I'm fully behind DE on this one, particularly his last post.
Wave all the signs you want; shout your slogans. But don't deprive me of my freedom of movement and, hence, my livelihood. Your rights end where mine begin. Simple common sense would dictate that pissing people off is the last thing a protestor wants to do to get favorable attention.
Wave all the signs you want; shout your slogans. But don't deprive me of my freedom of movement and, hence, my livelihood. Your rights end where mine begin. Simple common sense would dictate that pissing people off is the last thing a protestor wants to do to get favorable attention.
WyldOne
Member
(Emphasis mine)
No, actually I just learned how to...what was it?..."act like a selfish child" from my High Road mentors. You know, the ones who proclaim that others are elitist, while acting quite elitist themselves?
You consistently refer to people as idiots, and childish, and then you call me elitist? LOL!
Please tell me what rights of other people I have violated. The right to get to work on time? The right to drive and not be annoyed by people exercising their First Amendment?
We must be reading two very different documents, Sir.
Liberty? The Pursuit of Happiness?
Just because the right to earn a living isn't listed in the BOR, doesn't mean we don't have it.
I can just imagine some poor schmuck who gets paid by the hour missing half a day of work because some selfish a** thought their right to speak out outweighed his right to put food on the table.
As far as I know, your message can be dispersed effectively from the sidewalk. I'm all for water cannons, attack dogs and tear gas for anyone who thinks what they have to say is more important than what the rest of us think or do.
I remember watching a documentary about Ronald Reagan bringing out the CHiPs and Nat Guard in Bezerkly, when he was Gov., to deal with the students protesting the war and social inequality, etc. Funny thing was that these students ended up in the poorer parts of town and ended up trashing the property of these folks to fight the police. That social inequality message must've escaped them somehow.
WyldOne
Member
Actually no, demonstrations get far more public attention than passing out leaflets on the sidewalks. Just check out your local news--when was the last time they did a story about "xyz organization passed out pieces of paper today"? And the goal of a demonstration is to raise awareness.
But I must thank you for not calling me a child, or an idiot, or any such name of that variety.
Selfish a** was about as close as I got.
Your concern about screwing people over, or the lack of it, is telling. Pardon me if I won't be broken up when "Killer" takes a large bite out of you or your fellow protestors.
As for attention, I don't think negative attention does any cause much good. Planned rallies in parks seem to get a fair bit of attention, as do pickets. Neither interfere with people earning a living.
Your concern about screwing people over, or the lack of it, is telling. Pardon me if I won't be broken up when "Killer" takes a large bite out of you or your fellow protestors.
As for attention, I don't think negative attention does any cause much good. Planned rallies in parks seem to get a fair bit of attention, as do pickets. Neither interfere with people earning a living.
WyldOne
Member
Pickets quite often interfere with people's ability to earn a living. Not the striking workers, who voted in favor of the strike. But, what about the labor-ready temps that are hired in their place? They frequently experience verbal and physical abuse trying to walk in the front door.
JPM70535
Member
To peacefully exercise ones right to protest a policy of the Government is basic, however when that protest interferes with the rights of others, then the protesters have gone from being legitimate, to being criminal. My right to travel peacefully on the roadways, unimpeded by "Peaceniks" is equally as protected as is their freedom of speech and expresson.
Let me put it another way:
ROADS ARE FOR CARS, SIDEWALKS ARE FOR PEDESTRIANS, AND BEFORE I WILL STOP AND SUBJECT MY FAMILY TO POSSIBLE HARM FROM COMMON CRIMINALS, I WILL DO MY BEST TO REPAVE THE ROAD WITH THEIR CARCASSES.
Let me put it another way:
ROADS ARE FOR CARS, SIDEWALKS ARE FOR PEDESTRIANS, AND BEFORE I WILL STOP AND SUBJECT MY FAMILY TO POSSIBLE HARM FROM COMMON CRIMINALS, I WILL DO MY BEST TO REPAVE THE ROAD WITH THEIR CARCASSES.
fallingblock
Member
Wyld One.....
I am saddened that you have inappropriately chosen a quote from H.D.T's "Essay on Civil Disobedience" as support for what Henry would have no doubt considered an anti-social act.
Thoreau certainly was a multi-dimensional character, but what comes through his writing is the unmistakable message that his guiding principle is to be 'a good neighbor'. If you oppose the state, then your quarrel is with the state, not with your neighbors. If the state elects to imprison you, go quietly to prison.
In Henry's day, this would translate, perhaps to:"You ought not to abuse the jail-keeper for his part, nor should you detain the farmer in his cart as a hostage to your cause."
You were just fortunate that Sergeant Bob wasn't on the road you were blocking in such an un-neighborly fashion.
The current anti-war protests have much to do with political enmity and expedience and not a lot to do with genuine 'anti-war' sentiment...at least as far as the organizers are concerned.
When you commit a criminal act of trespass or deny access to your neighbor, you damage your cause in the eyes of the fence-sitters.
Henry Thoreau was wise enough to grasp the obvious
I am saddened that you have inappropriately chosen a quote from H.D.T's "Essay on Civil Disobedience" as support for what Henry would have no doubt considered an anti-social act.
Thoreau certainly was a multi-dimensional character, but what comes through his writing is the unmistakable message that his guiding principle is to be 'a good neighbor'. If you oppose the state, then your quarrel is with the state, not with your neighbors. If the state elects to imprison you, go quietly to prison.
In Henry's day, this would translate, perhaps to:"You ought not to abuse the jail-keeper for his part, nor should you detain the farmer in his cart as a hostage to your cause."
You were just fortunate that Sergeant Bob wasn't on the road you were blocking in such an un-neighborly fashion.
The current anti-war protests have much to do with political enmity and expedience and not a lot to do with genuine 'anti-war' sentiment...at least as far as the organizers are concerned.
When you commit a criminal act of trespass or deny access to your neighbor, you damage your cause in the eyes of the fence-sitters.
Henry Thoreau was wise enough to grasp the obvious
Thumper
Member
Wyld, they're right...your putting your pet cause over the livelihood of your fellow citizens negates your cause.
You'd sit down in the road? I see a Darwin award entry...
You'd sit down in the road? I see a Darwin award entry...
DeltaElite
Member
Wow, nothing much to add. Seems alot of people agree that you are wrong in your actions WyldOne.
You refuse to see that imposing you will on others is wrong.
You will get over being called a childish idiot, or at least you need to get accustomed to it, since you continue to act like one.
Funny, me being the cop, you would think I would be the one who imposes his will upon others, not the other way around.
You refuse to see that imposing you will on others is wrong.
You will get over being called a childish idiot, or at least you need to get accustomed to it, since you continue to act like one.
Funny, me being the cop, you would think I would be the one who imposes his will upon others, not the other way around.
dustind
Member
wyldOne, i disagree with you, please tell me where you live so i can place a few 1000 pound boulders at the end of your driveway so you can see my message (written on the boulders) it may impede your travel but i guess thats ok since its my first amendment right *note i was just makeing a point i was not serious.
i'm also guessing in your logic that you can spray paint things on others property too, or even destroy thier property to make a point. that is truely disturbing.
*note i was just makeing a point i was not serious.i'm also guessing in your logic that you can spray paint things on others property too, or even destroy thier property to make a point. that is truely disturbing.
igor
Member
DeltaElite, you just defined the Bush administration's fund raising strategy. Replace "foriegn govts" with "various undemocratic stakeholders".
DeltaElite
Member
True Igor, all politicians are corrupt puppets of special interests.
DeltaElite
Member
C'mon surely someone agrees with WyldOne.
I would hate to think all her high priced education at Vanderbilt was for naught.
BTW, WyldOne, nice site you have up and running.
I am not as militant as I come across.
I would hate to think all her high priced education at Vanderbilt was for naught.
BTW, WyldOne, nice site you have up and running.
I am not as militant as I come across.
jmbg29
member
If you block the road in front of me, and I see no reason to believe that you are under duress and seeking my help, then I will treat you the same as any other carjacker/thief, and continue toward you without changing speed/direction. Count on it.
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WyldOne
Member
Okay, most of you guys aren't making a whole lot of sense. What was that rule of thumb? Think twice, post once.....I thought it was the anti's who were supposed to get all emotional and such?
Are you guys getting all hot and bothered because you think I've been to an anti-war rally? Newsflash: I have not attended an anti-war rally since Clinton bombed Yugoslavia. Sorry to disappoint, but a simple question would have taken care of that.
Who's a "Peacenik", and what does that have to do with the current conversation at hand? And....which rights, again, are being violated? I must have missed the part of the BOR where it says "The Right to travel peacefully on the roadways".
Thank you for your polite response. I would like to continue this discussion, but apparently The High Road disapproves of civil disobedience. I shall respond to you via Private Message.
Um, okay.
I have, and I would do it again for a cause I believe in. If you disapprove, that's fine.
Actually, it seems that a lot of people are getting quite...."emotional". Maybe they're turning into liberals and we haven't realized it?? OH NO! Not that! Anything but that!
Actually, there have been several good points made. But until I am treated with respect, I will not publicly acknowledge that.
In 10 words or less, what does "The High Road" mean to you?
*yawn*
Great, thanks for that well-thought-out reply.
Well, I can't speak for the war protestors, but I can speak for myself. Will respond privately, after lunch.
Well, if you could read, you could find out where I live. Correct? And no, I don't have a driveway. And no, I don't think it's right to silence people just because you disagree with them.
And please, DO NOT ASSUME that I support property destruction. What is truely [sic] disturbing, is that you have made a judgement based on assumption based on the fact that I have participated in nonviolent civil disobedience in that past.
I wouldn't be surprised if nobody here agrees with me. That's fine, and perfectly understandable. Attempting to alienate me won't change my mind, however. Calling me names won't change my mind. Making assumptions about my education won't change my mind.
What will change my mind? Intelligent discourse. If that's even possible here.
Oh, and if you act towards me on my site, the way you have acted in this thread, you will be banned. My site is for people who know how to respectfully disagree with others. But you're more than welcome to join, the more the merrier.
EDIT: Somewhere up above, I stated that I had not attended an anti-war demonstration since the Clinton era. Upon re-reading this thread, I recalled that I have been to one rally. It was the "we have a legal permit, and we're just gonna stand here and hold signs" type. I just wanted to correct my error before someone calls me a liar or something.
Are you guys getting all hot and bothered because you think I've been to an anti-war rally? Newsflash: I have not attended an anti-war rally since Clinton bombed Yugoslavia. Sorry to disappoint, but a simple question would have taken care of that.
Who's a "Peacenik", and what does that have to do with the current conversation at hand? And....which rights, again, are being violated? I must have missed the part of the BOR where it says "The Right to travel peacefully on the roadways".
Thank you for your polite response. I would like to continue this discussion, but apparently The High Road disapproves of civil disobedience. I shall respond to you via Private Message.
Um, okay.
I have, and I would do it again for a cause I believe in. If you disapprove, that's fine.
Actually, it seems that a lot of people are getting quite...."emotional". Maybe they're turning into liberals and we haven't realized it?? OH NO! Not that! Anything but that!
Actually, there have been several good points made. But until I am treated with respect, I will not publicly acknowledge that.
In 10 words or less, what does "The High Road" mean to you?
*yawn*
Great, thanks for that well-thought-out reply.
Well, I can't speak for the war protestors, but I can speak for myself. Will respond privately, after lunch.
Well, if you could read, you could find out where I live. Correct? And no, I don't have a driveway. And no, I don't think it's right to silence people just because you disagree with them.
And please, DO NOT ASSUME that I support property destruction. What is truely [sic] disturbing, is that you have made a judgement based on assumption based on the fact that I have participated in nonviolent civil disobedience in that past.
I wouldn't be surprised if nobody here agrees with me. That's fine, and perfectly understandable. Attempting to alienate me won't change my mind, however. Calling me names won't change my mind. Making assumptions about my education won't change my mind.
What will change my mind? Intelligent discourse. If that's even possible here.
Oh, and if you act towards me on my site, the way you have acted in this thread, you will be banned. My site is for people who know how to respectfully disagree with others. But you're more than welcome to join, the more the merrier.
EDIT: Somewhere up above, I stated that I had not attended an anti-war demonstration since the Clinton era. Upon re-reading this thread, I recalled that I have been to one rally. It was the "we have a legal permit, and we're just gonna stand here and hold signs" type. I just wanted to correct my error before someone calls me a liar or something.
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DeltaElite
Member
That was very High Road of you, yet you question my comments.
Seems you are hurling insults out yourself.
Here you insult the entire board. My, my what intelligent rational discourse you create.
I do find it amusing that you would ban me from your board for my free speech, yet you have no problem blocking a roadway and interfering with other peoples freedoms.
I expect to be counseled for my actions my High Road staff, but I knew that when I made my statements.
I understand your board is your home, but some people have to get to work to pay the bills to keep their home.
So much for respecting peoples freedoms.
hy·poc·ri·sy
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.
WyldOne
Member
Yeah, I actually thought of that too. Oh well.
No. It is not your opinions I care about, but the way you go about expressing them. And, since it is my private board, I am free to ban whoever I want.
The Terms Of Conduct here, at The High Road, indicate an agreement of my position:
And, as stated in my welcome message:
The primary reason that I started my board, was to talk about things with my internet friends when my dad died last year. For that reason, I am vigilant about only permitting nice, respectful people in my site. We talk about some extremely touchy issues, and if your behavior is at all similar to this thread, then you will be banned; regardless of your political standpoint.
Please explain to me what having an internet messageboard, and sitting in a street, have to do with each other.
Very well. What is the problem here?
As do I. But that still does not mean that I can go into a stranger or an acquaintance's home, and call them names. Just because I have to work to pay my bills.
What right am I violating now, your right to post insults on an internet messageboard?
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Your willingness to inconvenience others just because you have something to say is ANYTHING BUT civil.
And, as I've said before, I approve of police using all the force allowed by law to remove you.
It isn't your message that I disagree with, but your tactics, which betray a belief that you are superior to those trying to go about their lives. We poor benighted members of the proletariat just don't know what is good for us.
Cheap shot. An attempt to to "poison the well" to deflect the opposition.
Nothing quite so offensive to the sensibilities of people as an attempt by the self-important to foist themselves and their beliefs upon others.
And take your toys with you.
You need to earn respect.
You have more than adequately shown that you don't have respect for others, through your hinderance of their movements. I can't see why you think that you a deserving of respect when you don't give it; your attitude belies a sense of superiority and entitlement.
I, for my part, won't tender you any more than simple politeness and a refrain from ad hominem.
Oh, please!
We're just a bunch of ignorant rednecks who need a morally superior member of the educated class to disabuse us of our prejudices, misconceptions, and superstitions, eh?
Another subtle cheap shot by you.
No thanks. I won't be visiting, as it'd only feed your ego gratification and give you another chance to talk down to us, only by YOUR rules.
Sounds like double-talk for "those who agree with me and kiss my a**." You can keep your smarmy sycophants. Only fifty-some have signed up.
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